Brakes

[Singleshot]

Last week I rode my 2004 FJR (non-ABS) to the Sport Bike Rally at Parry Sound, Ontario and encountered a problem with the front brakes about 50 miles south of my destination. I first noticed a slight vibration in the front end and upon pulling off HWY 400 for a little rest, noticed the front brake lever touched the handle bar grip when initially applied. Several pull's of the lever returned it to it's normal position and I was able to stop without panic. There was no evidence of a brake fluid leak anywhere in the system. Knowing I had a brake problem and could stop by pumping the brake lever, I proceeded to Parry Sound at a much slower pace, arrived safely, and checked into my motel. Additionally I would occasionally hear a clunk telegraphing up the forks to the handle bars. To make a long story short, I ended up renting a U-Haul truck to get my bike back to southeast Michigan and dropped it off at my dealer last Saturday (7/09) afternoon. So far the dealer has bled the system four times and after each time the mechanic experienced the same problem after riding the bike a few blocks. The bike has about 8,000 miles and the brakes worked normally until this revolting development occurred. Any thoughts as to what the problem may be are welcome.

-Singleshot-

 

[radman]

Junk master. Internal bypass. Or, severely worn pads, with the pistons retracting due to the outer seal being overextended. Or, loose caliper moving independently on the bolts. Loose rotor rivets/mounting bolts. Wheel installed improperly after tire mounting. Satan on shoulder winning over Gabriel on other shoulder.

 

[Warchild]

Well, if there is no leak anywhere, there are only two components to look at: calipers and master cylinder.

I'd teardown the calipers first; they are more likely to have issues than the mastercylinder (though you shouldn't rule out the mastercylinder, obviously).

The caliper outer seals have been known to get ripped up once corrosion starts to eat the piston. Check out this rear FJR caliper:

How did it get all ripped up like this? Take a look at the brake piston:

The constant in/out motion of the pistion caused the built-up aluminium oxide to abrade the outer seal to the point of failure.

I'm not saying this is your problem in this case, but this illustrates how easily the caliper can get dorked away under the right conditions.

uh-oh... I just caught this part:

Additionally I would occasionally hear a clunk telegraphing up the forks to the handle bars.

Hmmmmmm..... definitely sounds like the issue is in the calipers in some form or fashion. It's teardown time for ya, mate....

 

[C&C]

I would think you would see a loss of brake fluid if the calipers were bad, so my inclination would be that internal seals or piston in the master cylinder were leaking. Since the piston could still travel inside the master cylinder, but just not create any or a low pressure to send to the calipers you would experience the symptoms you describe. One test you could try would be to slowly actuate the brake lever; does the lever have low or no resistance? Then if you quickly pull the lever; do you have resistance? That should be a good indicator. After inspection of both caliper and master cylinder, it's going to be rebuild time after you find the culprit.

 

[Singleshot]

I have the YES plan which is why my bike was taken to the dealer. One would think that by now the problem would have been identified and the required parts ordered to fix it. This isn't rocket science. As of 5 pm last Wednesday (13 July), they still didn't know or weren't telling me what needed repairing or repalcing. There was speculation about warped rotors, bent wheel, and bad wheel bearings. I haven't a clue as to what could have caused any of these parts to fail as I've never hit any potholes and don't abuse the brakes. For some reason they haven't even mentioned the master cylinder or the calipers. I'll be visiting the dealer today and try to learn WTFIGO and let you know. Thanks for your input and suggestions.

-Singleshot-

 

[145hp]

Ya know,

This is starting to really become ridiculous.

So many problems with this machine WTF?????

Mine went in for 8000mi service and I am told that the slight shutter I feel when first underway is the result of what Yamaha says could be a defective Clutch.

Yamaha has authorized the repair under my YES plan, now I have to wait a week for the parts to arrive.

Keeping in line with this thread............

I hear this unnerving noise (very difficult to describe) from the front brakes when they are applied, And they are telling me it is normal for the combination of the rotors and type of pads that are on the bike. HUH?????

Plus, now i think it is starting to tick louder.

I've owned the bike for about 2 months now and put on about 2000mi.

I am thoroughly disgusted!!

 

[throttlejockeyTJ]

If the brake calipers are warped it will push the caliper pistons back in too. TJ

 

[twowheelnut]

Ya know,This is starting to really become ridiculous.

So many problems with this machine WTF?????

Mine went in for 8000mi service and I am told that the slight shutter I feel when first underway is the result of what Yamaha says could be a defective Clutch.

Yamaha has authorized the repair under my YES plan, now I have to wait a week for the parts to arrive.

Keeping in line with this thread............

I hear this unnerving noise (very difficult to describe) from the front brakes when they are applied, And they are telling me it is normal for the combination of the rotors and type of pads that are on the bike. HUH?????

Plus, now i think it is starting to tick louder.

I've owned the bike for about 2 months now and put on about 2000mi.

I am thoroughly disgusted!!

Shitcan it! :aacute:

First-off, the shutter you feel is quite normal for this machine. You just need to adjust your clutch/gas ratio. More gas and let the clutch out a bit faster. Voila! Shutter gone. (I bitched about this too when I first got mine, but the seniors here bitched slapped the bejesus out of me until I learned 'the way'.) If your dealer finds otherwise, please let us know.

Are the front brakes 'clunking' when first applied? If so, that's normal too. The pads float. If they're squealing, lightly sand the pads as they've become glazed. And by the way, it's the pad's fault and not the bikes.

The tick you are hearing, in all likelihood, is in your head. This motor is noted for louder than most valve train noise.

Quitcher bitchin' and rife the mofo. k:

 

[145hp]

When I spend 11 large on a new bike that needs this much attention, I'll bitch all the **** I want!!

I would like to hear more from the forum on how "normal" this shutter is.

And if so, why yamaha is saying it is defective & not normal??

I Just hope they get it right.

Oh, by the way, I would ride the mofo if it wasn't it the mofo shop!!

 

[twowheelnut]

Your dealer may not have FJR trained techs such as was the case with my dealer. They didn't even know how to open the fairing pocket 'til I showed them! If I had about twenty days to search EZB, there was a rather long thread about this issue last year - August or September, IIRC that I would link you to, but since the EZB search function is useless you'll have to wait for others to chime in. Course, it looks like you have the time...

 

[ohiofjr]

a whirring noise from the brakes is normal.

shudders on starting out are prob driver error. I came over from honda st11 and was used to a lot of clutch slip to start out. fjr does not like that.

For the brakes does it have an aftermarket brake lever? drove myself nuts over that glitch 20 years ago.

 

[145hp]

Very true, I do have the time!

Rider Error????

I've ridden many a bike over the last 25 or so years so please don't insult me like that.

So that normal whirring noise in the brakes is caused by what??

Sorry if I seem to have an attitude, I'll get over it.

It's just killing me, all the problems I read about the bike.

 

[Singleshot]

Friday (7/15) afternoon my dealer informed me that it has been determined that my bike needs new front wheel bearings and possibly rotors as the original rotors appear to have too much run-out, but some of the rotor run-out may be attributal to worn out wheel bearings. Accordingly, rotors and wheel bearings have been ordered and expected to arrive Wednesday (7/20). Apparently the run-out in the rotors is pushing the pads far enough away from the rotors such that when the brake lever is pulled, the initial pull moves the brake pads closer to the rotor and subsequent pulls cause the pads to squeeze the rotors and stop the bike. According to my shop manual page (4 - 5) the maximum rotor deflection limit is .004 inch or 0.1 mm which isn't very much. I've been informed that my YES plan will cover the cost of the repair. As of right now, that's all I know. I'll keep you informed as things unfold.

 

[Ramblin Man]

Hey 145HP. I'm with you dude! Bitch all you want, you paid your money.

I will chime in with the shudder you are feeling is TYPICAL, but no way will I say it's normal. My 03's clutch has always been glass smooth and a LOT of other people have complained about shudder on the 05s and maybe some 04s. Sure you can "technique" it out, but why should you have to when you pay that much for a new bike. Sure if this was a 30 year old bike that had been in a barn sitting all its life I'd say live with it, but hey if the dealer says Yamaha says change the clucth then get it changed. At least you will have a new clutch.

I think these things were sitting with their clutch baskets half submerged in oil waiting to be shipped and the top half of the basket dried out so you get shudder by the time it gets here.

If nobody bitches then its not a problem, but if nobody bitches then the problems never get fixed.

And the whirring noise, I hear from my brakes is from the holes in the disks as they rub the pads. Only get it when I apply the brakes.

 

[fjrinbc]

Getting back on topic...

I think Warchild was on the right path. If the caliper (and seals) are all bunged up it could be sticking and constantly applying the brakes. This would heat things up pretty badly, boiling the brake fluid, and cause the excessive pumping of the brake lever to restore pressure. And also cause the rotors to warp from too much heat. If you can pump up pressure I would think the master cylinder is fine, but have it checked out anyway.

When coming to a stop at some intersections with ripply pavement mine will make 'chatter' noises, too. I consider it normal from pad movement and the hopping of the front tire.

BTW: I have an '05 (non-ABS, FWIW) and the clutch 'take-up' has always been a dream-come-true. Smooth as a baby's ass, as they say. That and the wonderful low-end torque make get-aways a real treat.

Len

 

[ohiofjr]

Rider error was not the correct way to say that my apologies. But fjr does not like clutch slipped on easy pullout. You can hammer it pretty hard at the dragstrip but it don't like slow speeds.

 

[RonBB]

05 ABS, 13K, silk smooth clutch & brakes here, 220# rider with many miles with a passenger. Good luck.

 

[Bike Effects]

First-off, the shutter you feel is quite normal for this machine.

You must be joking. I have zero shudders, stopping or starting. I would not be happy if I did.

 

[twowheelnut]

First-off, the shutter you feel is quite normal for this machine.

You must be joking. I have zero shudders, stopping or starting. I would not be happy if I did.

Nope. I'm not joking. Try letting out the clutch with less than the normal amount of throttle that you normally use. It'll shutter. Took me about a month before I got the right mix. Now, it doesn't shutter, but I can still induce it if I want to.