Braking Technique

[RichDoyle]

The rear braking action is significantly less than the front, but it is not insignificant. I used to have a '75 Goldwing. This bike had disc brakes all around, but, of course no ABS or LBS. There was a design defect that would cause the rear brake to become temporarily ineffective in soaker-rain conditions. I first noticed this in situations where I'd brake normally and the bike wouldn't seem to decelerate normally for a couple of seconds and then (somewhat) suddenly be normal.

I tested this repeatedly and it was the rear brake. If you stopped in these conditions with just the front brake, nothing seemed abnormal. But applying the rear brake seemed totally useless for that second or two and then it would be normal again. Either the rainwater was somewhat soaking the rear brake pads or the water film was not being quickly wiped from the disk.

But the lesson here is that when the rear brake did come to the party, there was a very noticeable difference. Not to the degree of failing to use the front brake, of course, but definitely an important factor when high-performance braking is called for.

 

[CA G-Man]

But the lesson here is that when the rear brake did come to the party, there was a very noticeable difference. Not to the degree of failing to use the front brake, of course, but definitely an important factor when high-performance braking is called for.

...and let's not forget that 2 of the 8 front brake pistons are activated by the rear brake pedal. If I need to stop in a hurry I'm not going to rely on 3/4 of my front braking power and none of my back brakes. I want them all engaged. And as David Hough and others are fond of saying over and over again, in an emergency you do what you're in the habit of doing, not what your logical brain says you will do in that scenario. That's why when I brake I virtually always brake with both front and back.

So with all due respect to SoCal, I would suggest that if rear-wheel lockup is a concern "even with practice" the solution is to practice using the rear brake more, not abandon it altogether.

 

[bergmen]

I never use my rear brake above about 20mph. I have braked so hard on my previous sportbikes, that the rear wheel actually comes off the ground. The rear brake does not do much in that case. I have also seen people apply the rear brake coming too hot into a turn and slide the rear, and then highside. Unless you are riding at the limit, using the rear brake is fine. I prefer not to use it much, but old habbits are hard to brake, er break.

You are contributing to excessive front end dive by not applying the rear brake at the same time as the front. This is where the "stoppie" is coming from. Controlled application of both brakes will result in maximum stopping ability and minimum stopping distance, far better than any "stoppie".

If you go out and practice this as others have stated you will experience the advantages immediately.

Dan

 

[ULEWZ]

I never use my rear brake above about 20mph. I have braked so hard on my previous sportbikes, that the rear wheel actually comes off the ground. The rear brake does not do much in that case. I have also seen people apply the rear brake coming too hot into a turn and slide the rear, and then highside. Unless you are riding at the limit, using the rear brake is fine. I prefer not to use it much, but old habbits are hard to brake, er break.

You are contributing to excessive front end dive by not applying the rear brake at the same time as the front. This is where the "stoppie" is coming from. Controlled application of both brakes will result in maximum stopping ability and minimum stopping distance, far better than any "stoppie".

If you go out and practice this as others have stated you will experience the advantages immediately.

Dan

Do any of you actually ride on the track?

Enjoy your rear brake, I choose not to. It is not good for spirited riding, only panic stops. That is my story and I am sticking to it.

 

[John d]

I had a full blown panic stop a few days ago. No time to shift weight, no time to swerve. I just nailed both brakes as hard as I could, as fast as I could. The abs kicked in and I survived. It was very close!

 

[Bounce]

70/30 is the claim of braking percentages. Why throw away 30% of your braking ability by not using the rear brake?

 

[Tanker]

I've always been a "light on the rear brakes" guy, unless it is a panic stop. But that is mostly because of the high probability of locking up the rear wheel. I have never had ABS brakes for the last 39 years on any of my bikes. I've learned to modulate them pretty well over time.

I recently purchased the 14' ES and have been practicing panic stops the last few days. And as you can imagine.... HOLY **** can I stop a lot faster than ever before with the unified brakes with ABS and traction control. Love it!!

I've felt the ABS kick on a number of times and no lock up... Nice!!

 

[CA G-Man]

I recently purchased the 14' ES and have been practicing panic stops the last few days. And as you can imagine.... HOLY **** can I stop a lot faster than ever before with the unified brakes with ABS and traction control. Love it!!

I've felt the ABS kick on a number of times and no lock up... Nice!!

Guess you're about through that first set of tires, huh?

 

[ANZAC]

50/50 on both brakes and downshift too to help stop.

When coming to a stop - use both brakes to slow bike down then release the front and bring the bike to a stop using back brake only.

Try it and you will have much better bike control and balance.

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

Question......since the FJR has "linked" brakes does anyone know how much of the rear gets "applied" when you clamp down hard on the front lever?

Bounce mentioned 70/30 above but is that with ALL cycles or is it different with the linked system?

 

[Donal]

Question......since the FJR has "linked" brakes does anyone know how much of the rear gets "applied" when you clamp down hard on the front lever?
Bounce mentioned 70/30 above but is that with ALL cycles or is it different with the linked system?

Applying the front brake has no effect on the rear.

Applying the rear will affect one set of pistons on the front after a pre-set hydraulic pressure has been achieved.

 

[eg23232]

I never use my rear brake above about 20mph. I have braked so hard on my previous sportbikes, that the rear wheel actually comes off the ground. The rear brake does not do much in that case. I have also seen people apply the rear brake coming too hot into a turn and slide the rear, and then highside. Unless you are riding at the limit, using the rear brake is fine. I prefer not to use it much, but old habbits are hard to brake, er break.

You are contributing to excessive front end dive by not applying the rear brake at the same time as the front. This is where the "stoppie" is coming from. Controlled application of both brakes will result in maximum stopping ability and minimum stopping distance, far better than any "stoppie".

If you go out and practice this as others have stated you will experience the advantages immediately.

Dan

Do any of you actually ride on the track?

Enjoy your rear brake, I choose not to. It is not good for spirited riding, only panic stops. That is my story and I am sticking to it.

Yes I do several track days every year (not with the FJR, but with my Triumph Street Triple R). Everyone I know that races and does track days uses the rear brake. Mastering it is the key. Abandoning it altogether means you're not getting the shortest, fastest stops. Most riders don't use the rear for fear of locking up the rear. Okay, but that's manageable by practice, modifying the lever (I've lowered mine a bit so it won't lock), or removing some pad. Rear brake is a great way to scrub speed mid-corner. It also helps to drop the bike into a corner. The problem is people usually stomp on the rear and cause a lock up. Practice and finesse and your lap times will drop. If rear brake wasn't necessary for racing then why do all the racers and manufacturers have them on the motorcycles? And why did Mick Doohan have Honda develop and install a thumb lever activated rear brake when he hurt his ankle? Stick to your story if you like, but I'll stick with using my rear brake.

 

[mcatrophy]

I've been biting my lip for much of this topic, but it's Friday, so no more.

I cannot understand the logic behind a number of posters who seem to think that because some front pads are operated from the rear brake, it means you can't get all the front braking that's available using the front brake lever. The fact is that on a perfect road surface you can activate the front ABS using the front brake lever only. There can't be any more than that.

As for technique, at the moment you just start to brake, there's something like 50% weight on the front wheel, 50 on the back (talking round figures). You only get weight transfer as you start to decelerate. So, immediately use the rear brake hard, at the same time start (relatively) gently on the front, then as you begin to slow, ideally decrease the rear but continue to squeeze the front harder. (We're talking fractions of a second here, not as long as it takes to read it.) There's no real need to release the rear, the ABS will take care of things back there, as it will at the front if you finally squeeze too hard. For maximum stopping, try to hold the front on the verge of the ABS. But, better to have the ABS operating than not braking hard enough.

Simply grabbing the front will have the ABS working before you're really slowing, so you will lose a few feet of stopping distance, maybe not much, but if it's enough to avoid hitting something or somebody, well worth it.

And, practise, practise, practise, dry, wet, sandy, white lines, ruts, oil, ironwork. So long as you're travelling in a straight line, your ABS won't allow full wheel locking, even over a varying surface. Using it will reduce the likelihood of it seizing. And if there's any doubt about your ABS working, better to find out in a practice situation. But don't practise when there's other traffic behind you

 

[Bustanut joker]

I just slam on both and close my eyes...

 

[mcatrophy]

I just slam on both and close my eyes...

At least your technique eliminates target fixation .

 

[Donal]

Lots of interesting responses to this. There appears to be some confusion between 'controlled' braking and full on 'emergency' braking.

In a controlled situation it may be possible to use a 60/40, 70/30 or whatever distribution between the front & rear. However in a full on emergency (think Amygdala Hijack) there is no time for thinking, your primitive brain just reacts and everything is simply 'slammed on'. Your only hope is to have practised this situation frequently so that the 'instinctive reaction' brings about the desired effect.............

 

[xp@]

How many times "DON'T PANIC!" you are riding a powerful and unstable missile it is up to you to make sure it is guided. If you panic then you will not be in control.

Practice to use all your stopping power and call it a "maximum effort stop". Don't worry about percentages, just focus on how much you can get out of each brake in any situation. If you can get away with apply and forget on your rear then great (my abs is broken so I can't)

Even when things start to fall apart keep focused on your stopping goal, you may be able to save it but you will need to keep calm.

 

[xp@]

How many times "DON'T PANIC!" you are riding a powerful and unstable missile it is up to you to make sure it is guided. If you panic then you will not be in control.

Practice to use all your stopping power and call it a "maximum effort stop". Don't worry about percentages, just focus on how much you can get out of each brake in any situation. If you can get away with apply and forget on your rear then great (my abs is broken so I can't)

Even when things start to fall apart keep focused on your stopping goal, you may be able to save it but you will need to keep calm.

 

[Bounce]

Agreed. If you practice regularly then "emergency" braking can be "controlled" braking as well.

**** can happen but if you slow-in/fast-out and keep your sight lines and speed in synch, that greatly reduces the change for shitnicity. Meanwhile high thee to some open parking lots and practice brake-then-swerve and swerve-then-brake. Even on an '03 (no ABS and no linked brakes), with a heavy, long-distance load on board, I have had a few occasions where the brake pads have sounded like cicadas in heat while heavy on BOTH binders... but not locked up.

I tried to remember a quote I heard years ago. I finally found it.

A superior pilot is one whose superior planning skills prevent him from having to use his superior piloting skills.

 

[CAJW]

I was old school in that I learned to apply the rear brake to "settle" the chassis, then feed in the front. Obviously this technique lengthened the stopping distance, but when I first learned, wood wheels with iron bands were the norm.

Regarding the track schools I've attended, front braking techniques were discussed and taught, even doing laps without touching the rear, but later on we were told to use full brakes and continue to refine our technique. Riding a Non-ABS bike, I strive to practice at least one emergency stop, every time I go out, which is normally with the wife on-board. Living where we do, I have that luxury with little to no traffic and although I used to warn her of the imminent "practice" I now just put on the binders. She's getting really good at keeping off my back and we've done some fairly decent stops, both straight line and in curves. Never wanting to think we've got it dialed, constant practice keeps both of our skills up and lessens the chance that I'll surprise her with a quick stop which might cause distraction from the task at hand and keeping the bike under control ready to release the brakes and swerve, if that's what it takes. I've ridden ABS bikes and don't have a strong opinion about them either way, except the one time Happy Rider and I both got surprised by stopped traffic in a curve. That event resulted in my 5' long rear skid with his ABS equipped FJR stopping in about the same distance, minus the skid marks, both on the road and shorts.