Buying a demo versus a new-new bike

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I have rode a couple of dozen demos over the years, a couple with zero miles, and never felt the need to abuse any of them and I think that would be true for the almost all of the riders interested in a FJR (young sport bike riders may have a different interest if they can get on a new sport bike that they know they know they could never afford to buy). The only new engine that I came close to abusing would be my 05 FJR that was broken in via the Motoman instructions and when it was all over I couldn't see any benefit, positive or negative, of that procedure because the engine didn't seem to actually break in until 9,000 miles later. Every new bike since then has just been a "ride it" technique with a little extra care not to lug the engine at low rpms.

My 13A was a demo, it had 144 miles on it when I first rode it and was on sale for about a grand less than the zero miles model sitting next to it. I've heard for years that all bikes are not exactly the same, some just have better "matched" parts than others and every once in a while I do ride a FJR that just doesn't seem to be quite as good or one that seems a little better than most, so there still might be a bit of truth to that urban legend. In my case I thought the demo was a great running bike so I bought it....and may have have picked it over the zero miles bike at the same price just because I felt I knew what I was getting (I rode it about 75 miles). No regrets so far.

 
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Re: Demo Rides with the Yamaha truck

Aren't those escorted rides? If so, then that could be a different animal than the typical solo-demo from a dealer.

 
I've participated in a Demo day ride with Scooter in 2014 (rode the '14 FJR ES and the FZ-09). Scooter led both rides and to my pleasant surprise, brought us on a route that actually allowed us to push the bikes a little. Not a lot, a little. I suppose its possible that somebody ran the bike up to the redline, but that's what the chip is for. A more likley scenerio is an unexperienced rider missed a shift and put a little ding on the shift fork. That is what the YES is for, IMO.

If the bike has no major scuffs/scratches, and the dealer will allow me to take it down the road and back to feel the tranny for myself, and if I get back from that 2 mile ride with no concerns, and the dealer will meet me at least half way with the YES warranty (after I originally ask for 100% of it), then I'm buying the demo hands down. I'm not worried about the trade, or my tax savings therein. I can sell my bike back home for at least that.

Now for the thread jacking. Hold your flames. Wait for it. Steeeeaaaaddddddyyyyyy.......

The concept of "break in" for a new engine is a farse. At least it is for Yamaha outboard motors.

In 2007, I bought my first brand new boat. It came with a Yamaha 70 2-stroke outboard. The dealer promised me during the sale that it would go 40 mph on the GPS with a light load. He specifically told me to run it up to WOT the first trip and verify it. He was wrong (37.5 mph down wind). The next day I went back to the dealer and asked about upgrading to a 90hp. The dealer told me that he could not do this because the USCG plate only allows a mazimum 70hp on the motor. I told him that there was NO way I'd be operating this boat in Federal waters (3 miles offshore and further) and accordingly, that plate means nothing legally or literally. The dealer concurred with my comment but stated that the manufacturer and dealer policy abides by the plate. Of course I understood that but ultimately gave the dealer a choice - let me speak to the boat manufacturer and see if he can do something about the plate, or give me my money back. It was then that I learnd that the boat hull manufacturer was owned by Yamaha. This is very common - the easiest way to ensure that our motor gets installed on a particular boat is to buy the boat company. The dealer told me that in his opinion, my best shot was to talk to Yamaha. OK - fine. Ten minutes later, the wild goose chase led me to a Yamaha engineer. I told him my story, gave him some spcifications and he asked me to hold. Presumably he ran some numbers and in 3-ish minutes returned to the phone stating affirmatively that my hull could accept a 90 hp yamaha motor and he would authorize the dealer to change the USCG plate.

He then asked me to put the phone on speaker so that the dealer could hear his next statement. He then stated that with a 19 pitch propeller and the 90hp, in relatively calm wind, my boat will run no less than 44 mph with two people in it. He told me to work out my deal with the dealer and ask him to install the motor. Then before paying, go directly to the landing with a dealer rep and "run that puppy wide open. If it doesn't run at least 44, the dealer is instructed to either give you the upgrade for free, or give you your money back."

Here's where you can start fanning your flames.

I then asked inquired about the "break in period" for the engine. He replied that this is a complete farse. All yamaha motors are heat cycled at least twice before they are sent out of the factory. Subsequent tests are performed to ensure that the rings are seated and other engine components are fit for duty. Once a Yamaha motor reaches a dealer, it's ready to be put through any service. Intriqued, I asked him if that applies to all Yamaha motors and without hesitation, he replied in the affirmative.

So the dealer said $500.00 for the upgrade and I said "sold!". The dealer hung a brand new motor removed from a crate onto the boat and off to the landing we went. After idling about 35 feet from the landing, I shoved the throttle WFO and trimmed her up. When the GPS stabilized, we were zipping at 45.7 mph at the factory upper limit of 5200 rpm. I turned around and repeated the test for good measure against what little current and/or wind we had that morning and was elated to see 45 and change again. I gave the man his $500.00 and I've never seen him again. I've put several hundred hours on that motor to date with absolutely ZERO problems.

Now - you may not believe a word I'm saying and that is your choice. I'm sure the owner's manual says something about break in and the truth is - if (er... WHEN) I buy a new FJR, I'll probably baby the big girl in an abundance of caution anyway. But I'm not going to worry about any break in. I'd be interested in hearing BigJohn or Scooter weigh in on this (if the OP wouldn't mind).

OK - I've got my fire retardant suit on, and an extinusher handy. Go ahead and flame away.

 
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Oh, headline.....Done deal! The owner took the bike to Daytona bike week. That's were the mileage comes from..There are no customer miles on the bike.

Dealing with the owners son, he said bike was pristine and would include a 4 year YES in the price, $11,990. I left a deposit and will pickup in about two weeks.

Time to defarkle the 05 and offer it for sale. Check the for sale section, she goes up tonight. I'll list the farkles if someone wants a maxed out 2005 FJR with 50k on the clock.

Again, thanks for the input!

Baz

 
Do I have this right? The demo is 250 miles away and the new bike is 60? Where are you going to go for parts and to get the bike serviced? The dealer who's 250 miles away or the one who's 60 miles away? Because if I were the 60-mile-away dealer and you'd been negotiating with me and then bought from the other guy and then brought that bike to me for service or anything else, all to save yourself a couple of hundred dollars, I might not make you the first, or even second, or even third priority over someone who had bought a bike from me. We like to complain about dealers/stealers but rarely do we consider the dealer's point of view.

OTOH, it might be a good negotiating tactic to ask the new-bike guy if he'll throw in the 600-mile service or give you a discount on it if you buy from him.

 
...The demo is 250 miles away and the new bike is 60? Where are you going to go for parts and to get the bike serviced?...
You can go to any dealer to get your bike serviced including the 600 mile service. The dealer that sold you the bike wishes you would return for service but is no requirement.

People that advocate the MotoMan break-in should have no qualms at all buying a demo bike that may have seen some higher RPM and higher engine loads. With total disregard to heat cycling, peak spot heat loads on 'green' parts and parts surface mating.

 
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Quote: Do I have this right? The demo is 250 miles away and the new bike is 60? Where are you going to go for parts and to get the bike serviced? The dealer who's 250 miles away or the one who's 60 miles away? Because if I were the 60-mile-away dealer and you'd been negotiating with me and then bought from the other guy and then brought that bike to me for service or anything else, all to save yourself a couple of hundred dollars, I might not make you the first, or even second, or even third priority over someone who had bought a bike from me. We like to complain about dealers/stealers but rarely do we consider the dealer's point of view.

Actually...Neither. 1) I do almost all my own servicing. 2) When I have to stop in for dealer services I have a couple of different dealers within 25 miles, at least one who I'd trust. 3) I have a local independent who has treated me well (even lets me watch sometimes when my bike is in for service). And I make service appointments and agree ahead of time when the bike will be ready (usually the same day).

So no worries....

 
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...The demo is 250 miles away and the new bike is 60? Where are you going to go for parts and to get the bike serviced?...
You can go to any dealer to get your bike serviced including the 600 mile service. The dealer that sold you the bike wishes you would return for service but is no requirement.

h total disregard to heat cycling, peak spot heat loads on 'green' parts and parts surface mating.
I know that it's not a requirement. And I know that you know there's a difference between how the world is supposed to work and how it actually works. In any case, it's moot as Blassoff will probably patronize neither of these dealers.

 
Congrats!
punk.gif


What happened on the extended service contract? If you can get at cost or even close to cost, I would do that also.

 
Congrats!

But dang, now I'm wanting to buy a boat. Wouldn't it be cool if you could go buy a bike and if it wasn't fast enough, take it back to the dealer and demand a higher HP engine?

:)

 
$12 grand including the 4-year YES? Holy crap - that's a wonderful deal. I would have driven 250 miles (and much farther) for that deal - hands down and without thinking.

I'm envious, jealous, and happy for you all at the same time.

Rushes - LOL!!! Of coure, if anyone's thinking along those lines with the FJR, we all know that would be an exercise in futility.

My dad has the exact same boat with a 70hp yamaha (few years older). We often "buddy boat" and fish together. He'll run WFO and I'm just about 2/3 throttle. We'll get the same gas mileage. But my rathionale behind the speed thing in my boat was very simple. I just wanted it.

Not Friday? I'll say - you guys are being pretty mild today.

 
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First, Congratulations on the New Bike.

Second, Demo Rides.

A Demo Ride, which is what SkooterG does is a well organized group ride with a lead and chase rider. They use a route that lets you push the bike a little bit, do a little bit of foolishness, but not too much. Yes, a bike can easily hit redline a few times on these rides, yes it is being ridden by folks that know they will not be responsible for maintaining that engine at 100K miles. But their time and their foolishness is limited.

I have no idea what a dealership owned Demo bike would go through.

I participated in a SkooterG Demo ride at my local dealership. I had no intention of buying a bike, my Honda ST1300 was doing very well for me. I wanted Pop to try out the new '14 ES and maybe upgrade from his '07 FJR. Mostly I wanted to meet SkooterG and I wanted to ride the Super Tenere.

Here is what happens: The youngest, least experienced kid will always jump on the R1. He will not hurt the motor, he is too scared of it. The FJRs and Super Teneres get ridden exactly the way any one of us would ride it if we were given the chance to test ride one. Whatever you would do to your own, you would do to the Demo Bike. You don't have time or freedom to do much more. Yes, I hit redline once. Yes, I tried out the ABS to see if it was really better than the Gen2. (It is) No, I don't think I did any meanness to it. I would have bought that bike that day.

Only two of the bikes on the four Demo rides I took saw any "abuse". I am sad to say that myself and my friend hppants were the culprits. We both pulled the front wheel on the FZ-09, in exactly the same places, and we were both surprised by it. The second abuse was given to the V-Max. I was on it and got caught at a red light. When the light changed I had to catch up to the group. I will never forget that experience and yes, the bike did hit redline twice. I don't think I hurt its chances of winning an Iron Butt Rally by doing that.

The important thing is that you have made a decision, you have bought yourself a "New" FJR. That means you have made a good decision.

 
I didn't thrash the '09 I demoed before purchasing. Ist and 2nd gear acceleration a maybew 1/2 throttle was more than enough to convince me the FJR has more power than can reasonably used in day-to-day riding. Maybe on a track it would see a lot of WOT. The one I bought had about 3 miles on it and has been absolutely solid. Tires, oil, a fork refresh at Gp Suspension at about 27000 and that is it.

 
The 'break in' on out Yamaha jetski was 1 Hour. If I bought a new bike and rode it for 1 hour at 60mph, that'd be 60 miles, not 600. Seems to run just fine. It all makes me wonder.

Ford trucks have a 500 mile minimum before pulling a trailer. Supposedly to protect the rear seals. No idea what the Hell that even means. Lol...

 
The 'break in' on out Yamaha jetski was 1 Hour. If I bought a new bike and rode it for 1 hour at 60mph, that'd be 60 miles, not 600. Seems to run just fine. It all makes me wonder.
Ford trucks have a 500 mile minimum before pulling a trailer. Supposedly to protect the rear seals. No idea what the Hell that even means. Lol...
Crap, no wonder I had to replace the right side axle seal twice in 140,000 miles on my truck. I pulled my camper right out of the gate with about 100 miles on it...LOL.

I also bought my 2011 FJR as a demo with 300 miles on it for about $1500 less than a zero mile one. No regrets. Bike has been flawless for 12,000 miles. I break all my stuff in as I am going to use it and it has never let me down, except that axle thing now???

 
Seems like there's a bunch of left-over 2014a's out there. Check cycletrader. I found 6 FJR's for less then 12,500 new!! I love a good deal, in fact I'm a sucker for it. Too good to pass up, I'll buy it. Honestly, I'm pretty excited about the deal I struck. New 14 with a 5 year warranty for 11,990. I think that's just awesome.

 
Sounds like a good deal. Congrats. When I first started looking for a deal on an FJR, I was only looking for demos. I figured with the warranty, I'd be able to get a deal I couldn't get any other way. A demo bike shouldn't be selling for the same as a new one. A demo bike isn't new (insert streetwalker/marriage analogy here), but if I could get one for a good markdown below what I'd have to pay for a new bike of the same trim/year, I'd jump on it. In my shopping, I found few demos, but several unsold '14s. I patiently waited until November, well past prime time for motorcycle sales, walked into a deserted dealership, and made a great deal. I went in with no intention to buy from that dealer. But between trade-in my my old bike and the price for the new one, I ended up buying that day, taking it home the next.

So I'm looking at purchasing a leftover 2014. And I have two dealers asking the same price for two different bike. Both are 2014A, one is new with zero miles and one is a demo with 640 miles. Both are being sold as new with full factory warranties. Would you expect there to be a price difference between the two? I sure thought so, but whadda I know?

Thoughts, conjectures, prudent knowledge, or pure wags excepted. Appreciate any input!

Baz
 
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