I think they should leave it the **** alone.
We got enough laws around here, we don't need anymore
We got enough laws around here, we don't need anymore
California Lane Splitting Guidelines Now Being Developed--UPDATED 5/18
- Thread starter SacramentoMike
- Start date
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James Burleigh
Well-known member
SacramentoMike
Not Safe For Work
Quoted from the LA Times article linked above: "The bill appears to have momentum. It passed the Assembly Transportation Committee with a vote of 13 to 1 and the Assembly Appropriations Committee by 16 to 1. It now faces a vote in the 80-member Assembly." So here's an update they didn't have. Today--May 28--the Assembly voted to move the bill over to the Senate side. Still continuing forward.
I didn't like the Times article in Hans' link at all; it's subtly but definitely against the bill--and the practice, starting with the title: "CA could soon legalize motorcycle lane splitting." Or this: "Technically neither legal nor illegal . . .." News flash: it is legal. Or calling it a "traffic evading tactic" or quoting a blogger who claims to represent "over 1,000 members," but whose blog is the most idiotic, illiterate and misinformed piece of crap I've ever seen on the subject. Read it, though, for a laugh. I don't get the LA Times, so I never realized what a crappy newsrag it is, till now.
I didn't like the Times article in Hans' link at all; it's subtly but definitely against the bill--and the practice, starting with the title: "CA could soon legalize motorcycle lane splitting." Or this: "Technically neither legal nor illegal . . .." News flash: it is legal. Or calling it a "traffic evading tactic" or quoting a blogger who claims to represent "over 1,000 members," but whose blog is the most idiotic, illiterate and misinformed piece of crap I've ever seen on the subject. Read it, though, for a laugh. I don't get the LA Times, so I never realized what a crappy newsrag it is, till now.
Never could stomach that rag either, I always preferred the Orange County Register.
Anyways, I hope this bill passes and then maybe, just maybe, other states will take notice of a practise that is "officially" legal.
And as far as drivers being angry about motorcyclists advancing through traffic like that? I don't think it would be a majority, not even a substantial number like that article insinuated. When I lived and rode out there I had a few vehicles intentionally move to block my preogress, but had far more move in the other direction to give me even more room to advance. The biggest obstacle for us other states would be to convince the cagers we share the road with, that lane sharing is a good thing and not just a selfish act imposed upon them by greedy motorcyclists trying to cheat traffic jams.
I really really miss lane sharing and filtering. <sigh>
SacramentoMike
Not Safe For Work
My biggest concern about this bill, as mentioned in the first post, is that bringing this whole thing up just raises the odds of negative attention being turned onto lane splitting, and we end up worse off than we have been. The local radio station is now doing a completely unscientific online poll about it, asking only three questions: (it can be found here.)
What are your thoughts on motorcyclists who split lanes?
So people who don't think about it at all, ever, are now thinking about it, and some of them will contact legislators, and nothing good ever came of that. The fact that about zero percent of those voting against have the foggiest idea of why it's good or bad never keeps them from voting. Kind of like the rest of the votes they cast. But all we can do is wait and see. And maybe click my link and cast a vote?
What are your thoughts on motorcyclists who split lanes?
- I'm not all that comfortable with it.
- I'm okay with it and it should be legal.
- I'm not sure.
Here is a link to a study by UC Berkeley on lane splitting. The conclusions are what's driving legislation nationwide.
https://www.ots.ca.gov/pdf/Publications/Motorcycle-Lane-Splitting-and-Safety-2015.pdf
https://www.ots.ca.gov/pdf/Publications/Motorcycle-Lane-Splitting-and-Safety-2015.pdf
SacramentoMike
Not Safe For Work
Going by what I've seen with the progress of AB 51--the bill that's now working its way through the Cali legislature, I've become pretty optimistic about its chances of passage, and about its ultimately leading, or at least contributing, to similar approval in other states. And reading through the study above, though without really taking the time to understand every bit of it, I think it's a very powerful set of facts that back up the case for legalization. Thanks for posting it.
They based their findings on lane splitting safety on variables like traffic speed and the differential between the motorcycle speed and that of other traffic, time of day, day of week, age of rider, and helmet type, all relating to deaths and injuries. I'd like to have seen a little more data, like "other" gear besides just the helmet--was the injured rider wearing jeans and a tank top or a good set of padded gear, boots, etc., and also the riders' level of experience, particularly recent experience, say the last five years). But it did seem to be a pretty comprehensive analysis, and should help the cause of legalization. No news on the Cali bill right now, but I'm watching it.
They based their findings on lane splitting safety on variables like traffic speed and the differential between the motorcycle speed and that of other traffic, time of day, day of week, age of rider, and helmet type, all relating to deaths and injuries. I'd like to have seen a little more data, like "other" gear besides just the helmet--was the injured rider wearing jeans and a tank top or a good set of padded gear, boots, etc., and also the riders' level of experience, particularly recent experience, say the last five years). But it did seem to be a pretty comprehensive analysis, and should help the cause of legalization. No news on the Cali bill right now, but I'm watching it.
TomInPA
Well-known member
There is a quick write up here
https://www.cycleworld.com/2015/06/02/ama-study-finds-lane-splitting-increases-rider-saftey/
https://www.cycleworld.com/2015/06/02/ama-study-finds-lane-splitting-increases-rider-saftey/
SacramentoMike
Not Safe For Work
The California legislature operates on a two-year cycle, and this is the first year of the current session. I mention that because the author of AB 51 has withdrawn the bill from consideration for this year; in other words it's been tabled, not abandoned or defeated. It can and probably will be revived, at least in some form, during the next calendar year.
I'm really disappointed, because it was sailing along with lots of support and very little listed opposition. But apparently there was opposition, and that from unnamed "motorcycle groups," according to an article in today's Sacramento paper. I'm going to try to find out exactly what groups these were, and what their objections to the bill were. My personal opinion is that the latest version of AB 51 was entirely reasonable and deserved support. It would have made a great model for other states to copy. It's probably important to note that this action doesn't affect the legality of lane splitting in California at all--it was, and still is, legal, but without specific limits or restrictions, which I'm pretty sure is why some riding groups opposed the bill--it would have put those limits and restrictions into law.
I'll post up what I find here, and I'm also planning to contact the author's office to at least express my support as well as find out if there's anything I (and maybe others here who may agree) can do to encourage this bill to be picked up in 2016.
I'm really disappointed, because it was sailing along with lots of support and very little listed opposition. But apparently there was opposition, and that from unnamed "motorcycle groups," according to an article in today's Sacramento paper. I'm going to try to find out exactly what groups these were, and what their objections to the bill were. My personal opinion is that the latest version of AB 51 was entirely reasonable and deserved support. It would have made a great model for other states to copy. It's probably important to note that this action doesn't affect the legality of lane splitting in California at all--it was, and still is, legal, but without specific limits or restrictions, which I'm pretty sure is why some riding groups opposed the bill--it would have put those limits and restrictions into law.
I'll post up what I find here, and I'm also planning to contact the author's office to at least express my support as well as find out if there's anything I (and maybe others here who may agree) can do to encourage this bill to be picked up in 2016.
fjrbird
Well-known member
AMA also was in the opposition due to restriction on speed limit of 50 mph. It said with 'speed delta' of 15 mph, that limit should have been 65 mph. LA Times article https://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-lane-splitting-bill-withdrawn-20150709-story.html
SacramentoMike
Not Safe For Work
I haven't followed up till just now on this--for one thing the legislature is in their summer recess for a few weeks right now, but I spoke to the author (Assemblyman Bill Quirk's) office and got some updates about it. First, the bill (same bill) will definitely be brought up again next year, probably in January. The opposition from some motorcycle groups, including the AMA, seems to have been one of the main stumbling blocks, and resolving those issues will be a priority.
To me, opposing this bill seems short-sighted for groups who should want to see the practice of lane splitting given the blessing of specific law authorizing it. I've said before that a recent study here in CA by the Office of Traffic Safety showed 40% of drivers think it's illegal, and 7% admit to having deliberately impeded riders at least once. That's a LOT of impeding--seven out of every 100 cars I pass might deliberately pull over and block me? Or worse?
Quirk's Chief of Staff is Tomasa Duenas ([email protected]), and she's the primary contact person in his office for this bill. She'll be the next email I'm sending out, and I'll be asking to speak to her and asking what I can do to further the bill. I'll also be sending copies of my note to her to the Assembly member and Senator for my district, and that's what I'd like to ask any CA rider here to do (if you agree, anyway). Just express your support for the bill and ask for theirs.
I think it's a completely reasonable way to address this question. I don't understand the thinking of groups who supposedly represent riders to push for a maximum splitting speed of over 50 mph. Hell, if traffic's moving along at 35 to 50, splitting isn't even necessary. At that traffic speed, all you need to do to move forward is change lanes as needed and pass. You just wouldn't technically be "splitting lanes." (I probably won't mention that point in my comments to her. It might sound a little bit like "dangerous weaving through traffic.")
But insisting on the right to split lanes faster than that will just alienate the public. Plus, as a first step to get other, more gun shy state legislatures to copy California's model, it really HAS to be a less-extreme compromise.
To me, opposing this bill seems short-sighted for groups who should want to see the practice of lane splitting given the blessing of specific law authorizing it. I've said before that a recent study here in CA by the Office of Traffic Safety showed 40% of drivers think it's illegal, and 7% admit to having deliberately impeded riders at least once. That's a LOT of impeding--seven out of every 100 cars I pass might deliberately pull over and block me? Or worse?
Quirk's Chief of Staff is Tomasa Duenas ([email protected]), and she's the primary contact person in his office for this bill. She'll be the next email I'm sending out, and I'll be asking to speak to her and asking what I can do to further the bill. I'll also be sending copies of my note to her to the Assembly member and Senator for my district, and that's what I'd like to ask any CA rider here to do (if you agree, anyway). Just express your support for the bill and ask for theirs.
I think it's a completely reasonable way to address this question. I don't understand the thinking of groups who supposedly represent riders to push for a maximum splitting speed of over 50 mph. Hell, if traffic's moving along at 35 to 50, splitting isn't even necessary. At that traffic speed, all you need to do to move forward is change lanes as needed and pass. You just wouldn't technically be "splitting lanes." (I probably won't mention that point in my comments to her. It might sound a little bit like "dangerous weaving through traffic.")
TomInPA
Well-known member
The AMA solicits our signatures for causes like higher ethanol in gasoline, and unfortunately for safety repeals. Maybe it's time for us to petition AMA to withdraw their trivial objection for the greater benefit of having a legal precedent for lane sharing in heavy or stopped multi-lane traffic and filtering at lights. This would be so big for the remaining 49 states, that the objection in the one progressive state is insane.
SacramentoMike
Not Safe For Work
I like Tom's idea about appealing to the AMA on this. I'm not a member, but if somebody who IS an AMA member, particularly if you have any kind of a personal connection there, would care to look into finding out who we could discuss it with or present arguments about it to, it could be very valuable. They should at least hear the other side of the argument they're pushing. Anybody?
Twigg
Just an old, bald man!
The AMA might have a point.
Currently, the practise is legal in California for the simple reason that it has never been made illegal, as it has in the other states.
Generally we don't make laws to "allow" an activity, because anything not specifically proscribed is already legal. That is how it works. We make laws either to ban an activity, or to regulate it.
What we need in all the other states is a simple repeal of the regulations that, for example, prevent two vehicles sharing a lane, and mofifying the law with respect to "indicating a change of lane".
If that can be managed, lane sharing/splitting would automatically be made legal. Laws covering dangerous driving covers the hooligans, and states could issue guidelines to law enforcement and the courts as to how that should be interpreted.
Currently, the practise is legal in California for the simple reason that it has never been made illegal, as it has in the other states.
Generally we don't make laws to "allow" an activity, because anything not specifically proscribed is already legal. That is how it works. We make laws either to ban an activity, or to regulate it.
What we need in all the other states is a simple repeal of the regulations that, for example, prevent two vehicles sharing a lane, and mofifying the law with respect to "indicating a change of lane".
If that can be managed, lane sharing/splitting would automatically be made legal. Laws covering dangerous driving covers the hooligans, and states could issue guidelines to law enforcement and the courts as to how that should be interpreted.
SacramentoMike
Not Safe For Work
I've never spoken to anybody at AMA about their specific reason(s) for opposing AB 51, Twigg, but I have spoken to the legislative staffers who have analyzed this bill, and their understanding of AMA's position is that they--AMA--just don't want any restriction on the speed of the bike splitting lanes that is less than the legal speed limit.
Frankly, the idea of getting ANY state, let alone "all the other states," to repeal their own laws about two vehicles sharing a lane, or any other law, would be so complex and far-fetched that it's completely unrealistic. But the hope of getting THIS law put into effect in California, where as you point out it is already legal, is pretty do-able, and better yet, reproducible.
Yes, current law's silence about this makes it legal by default, but with the state of ignorance about just what the law is or is not, even here where lane splitting has never been prohibited (40% think it IS illegal, remember) really does call for specific authorization of the practice, in addition to providing the template for places where it's still illegal. Like Oklahoma.
Frankly, the idea of getting ANY state, let alone "all the other states," to repeal their own laws about two vehicles sharing a lane, or any other law, would be so complex and far-fetched that it's completely unrealistic. But the hope of getting THIS law put into effect in California, where as you point out it is already legal, is pretty do-able, and better yet, reproducible.
Yes, current law's silence about this makes it legal by default, but with the state of ignorance about just what the law is or is not, even here where lane splitting has never been prohibited (40% think it IS illegal, remember) really does call for specific authorization of the practice, in addition to providing the template for places where it's still illegal. Like Oklahoma.
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HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Correct, but states would have to regulate the allowance of lane sharing. Otherwise, some douche bag would be doing it at 90mph and when he gets caught, he'll whine and some judge will let it go, creating precedence.
CA is smart to bring it into law and regulate it at the same time. Limiting the upper allowable speeds won't hurt anything. I'd love to see it allowed here, but there'd have to be driver education about it to reduce the backlash. Even then, some road-rager will cause a hassle every now and then.
I'm not a huge fan of the AMA. They have done some good things, but they seem to be governed by a bunch of Pirate Turds who don't understand they can't just run around and ride like idiots and not get called on it. Just my sad opinion, and I could be wrong.
Twigg
Just an old, bald man!
So you are making good points, but let's not forget this practise worked (works) perfectly well under the current Cali. arrangement, part of which was the guidance offered by the CHP on their website.
That was removed following a single complaint by someone who should have been ignored, but broadly Californians appeared pretty happy with the arrangement.
My guess about the AMA stance is that they simply do not want to see motorcycling singling out for "permissive" legislation. It is a very dangerous precedent that could be hijacked either now or later by any politician with an axe to grind.
90 mph is already illegal in California. We already have the laws necessary to punish idiots and dangerous drivers. What is needed is sympathetic enforcement.
I wholeheartedly agree with the need for driver awareness campaigns. We should have more of them, and not just about this. Here is a famous TV Ad that ran in the UK many years ago:
These things work.
That was removed following a single complaint by someone who should have been ignored, but broadly Californians appeared pretty happy with the arrangement.
My guess about the AMA stance is that they simply do not want to see motorcycling singling out for "permissive" legislation. It is a very dangerous precedent that could be hijacked either now or later by any politician with an axe to grind.
90 mph is already illegal in California. We already have the laws necessary to punish idiots and dangerous drivers. What is needed is sympathetic enforcement.
I wholeheartedly agree with the need for driver awareness campaigns. We should have more of them, and not just about this. Here is a famous TV Ad that ran in the UK many years ago:
These things work.
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Perhaps rather than enacting a law to specify what is to be legal, the pro-lane-splitting forces in California should go on a public service campaign to inform and educate the rest of the states drivers that motorcycles are not prohibited from splitting lanes? Kind of like what they do for bicyclists with the "Share the Road" campaign around here.
Regardless of having a law or not, there are alway going to be some asshat drivers who don't want to let the bikers by (already illegal) and also other asshat motorcyclists that will overdo it and split lanes in an unsafe manner (also already illegal) thereby giving the public more reasons to be like asshat #1.
Regardless of having a law or not, there are alway going to be some asshat drivers who don't want to let the bikers by (already illegal) and also other asshat motorcyclists that will overdo it and split lanes in an unsafe manner (also already illegal) thereby giving the public more reasons to be like asshat #1.
Twigg
Just an old, bald man!
Where lane-splitting is an established practise, cars and trucks mostly simply get out of the way, or hold their line. Rarely folk will try to close the gap but a couple of scrapes on their shiny cars and they learn.
Squids are squids everywhere, no one pays them much heed except the EMTs who have to scrape them up.
Squids are squids everywhere, no one pays them much heed except the EMTs who have to scrape them up.
