Calling All Fjr Gurus, Fjr Won't Start

[MrVvrroomm]

IT'S ALIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIVVVVVEEEEEEE!!!!!!!

Ok, I replaced the plugs. They were in good shape at 19K miles. They were wet, so flooded. I replaced the plugs and still did the same thing. I tried several times as the battery was again recharged. No go.

I took the plugs out again. I confirmed I had spark. New plugs wet. Flooded.

I let the battery charge. I removed plugs, dried/heated them up with a torch. Replaced plugs.

Here's how I finally got her to fire: with key in OFF position, WFO on throttle, turn on key, hit starter. WHOOSH! She's alive!

It's a mystery to me. I don't know why it would do this now. It's not like my bike doesn't sit for extended periods of time...six months over each of the 2 last winters.

Anyway, thanks so much for all the input and encouragement. She's running, fresh oil, synched throttle bodies as long as I had her open, changed oil, changed rear differential gear lube, washed her, checked her tires, she's ready to roll Friday morning.

Thanks guys/gals!

Bruce

 

[socalrk]

Sounds like tps/ecu glitch. I've had strange ecu problems twice before. Perhaps having throttle wfo when key turned on reset some sort of tps setting/glitch in ecu.

Either way, I'd store what you did in my memory banks in case it happens again

 

[Thug]

Good news!

Well done

 

[radman]

I have yet to have this happen, doesn't mean it won't in some future. On other injection flooders I have dealt with, I have had success with unplugging the injector harness, and starting the engine on the fuel already in the cylinders. Once it quits (starvation), plug in the injectors and should be good to go. Unless of course, some glitch is causing the injectors to run wide open. This would have to be a ECM/Driver issue, if one injector stuck, one cylinder would exhibit the problem. For all to stick simultaneously would be beyond all odds, so it has to be an erroneous signal from the ecm. Or, poor spark due to old plugs (probably the case here-you just had to keep dealing with cylinders full of gas from the earlier failed attempt). Keep in mind, each turn of the key fires up the fuel pump for a 2 second rail pressurization, so that the engine just keeps pumping fuel into non-firing chambers, worsening the situation. Disabling the pump will stop this, if you know you're dealing with a flooded motor of course. Simply unplug the pump harness (tank is already up), and this should aid in getting the engine lit. 2 lessons here-don't run plugs 19,000 ******* miles (I mean, really! You should be ashamed!), and if flooding is suspected, or verified, prevent more gas from worsening the situation. And on most systems I have dealt with, a WFO throttle at start up is a reccomended flood clear procedure. I have not seen much evidence it works well on the FJR however, possibly because they are so badly flooded before procedures can be enacted to correct, possibly because the FJR, as a high performance machine, is capable of delivering high fuel flow, with all the attendant risks, or the ignition, as I suspect, is highly voltage dependent, and will not tolerate less than a perfect battery in these situations.

 

[MrVvrroomm]

2 lessons here-don't run plugs 19,000 ******* miles (I mean, really! You should be ashamed!), and if flooding is suspected, or verified, prevent more gas from worsening the situation.

Thanks Dave, I feel like I just got yelled at by my mother. LOL

 

[skyway]

Original plugs, that too was on my list (head hanging).

Glad you got it going in time!

 

[Windjammer]

OK, I have a couple of questions about this spark plug ordeal. What kind of plugs come stock in the FJR and how often do they really need to be replaced?

On an old engine, with breaker point ignition, burning oil, and an old dirty carb trying in vain to mix the fuel at the correct ratio, I'd expect to change plugs every 6,000 miles or twice a year, at least. But on a newer fuel injected motor that doesn't have the above limitations, I should be able to run the plugs much longer. I've always thought that as long as the plugs are clean and the electrodes are in good condition, go ahead and run 'em. With that in mind, I would think that you could easily get 25,000 miles out of normal plugs on the FJR motor.

Using Platinum/Iridium plugs should extend life to as much as 50,000 miles, as long as they stay clean. What am I missing here? :huh:

 

[markjenn]

Compared to a car, the FJR engine makes about 3x the horsepower for the displacement, revs about 50% higher, and doesn't have anywhere near as robust an ignition system. All these things factor into plug life.

Yamaha recommends 8K. They'll run longer, but if you want the performance and reliability out of the motor that Yamaha intended, I'd change them at 8K.

The special plugs will extend this, but my takes is that if a special plug costs 3x the cheap plugs, I think an engine runs better replacing the plugs 3x as often. Of course, if getting to the plugs is especially difficult than using an expensive long-life plug makes more sense, but the plugs on the FJR are very easy to change, especially if you're in there for the carb sync anyway.

- Mark

 

[Windjammer]

doesn't have anywhere near as robust an ignition system

Can you elaborate on this? Just curious as to why.

Yamaha recommends 8K. They'll run longer, but if you want the performance and reliability out of the motor that Yamaha intended, I'd change them at 8K.

8K seems like nothin', but that's what they say so I have to agree with ya. Took a look at NGK website, had plenty of good info about plugs, and their stuff seemed to suggest that heat and dulling edges on the electrodes is what makes replacement necessary. Dull edges = more work for ignition system to make spark they say. :cownoy:

 

[yamaha1300rider]

It's happened to me once in 18 months

Paul

01 fjr

uk

 

[Bounce]

At 19k, the plugs were about 11k miles past their prime. Yamaha calls for an 8K mile replacement interval for a reason. With EFI and the computer's ability to adjust settings on-the-fly, reading a plug "good" is pretty much useless since it may just mean that the EFI has compensated somehow to get a good burn at the cost of mpg or performance.

Changing them is so easy, why try to stretch out their useful life when the problems that are possible are so much more of a hassle? It's a heck of a lot easier to swap them at your time and place of choice than being forced to do so under the pressure of an upcoming trip or perhaps out on the road stranded somewhere.

Change 'em as described if you want to stick with OEM plugs. If you want extened change intervals pick a proper replacement plug like an iridium model. That will bring you up to a 16k mile service interval (not 19k miles as was reported on these OEM plugs).

 

[MrVvrroomm]

Update: Wife and I returned from a 4055 mile, 8 day trip. The FJR ran flawlessly. We got home on Friday afternoon, washed, then parked the bikes.

I went to pull my FJR out for a tire change yesterday, Monday and it did the same thing it had done to me prior to our trip.

The tank was over half full, the bike was on the centerstand in my garage with a Battery Tender attached. It had only sat idle for three days and it would not start. I ended up doing the same thing I had done before: opening the throttle wide open, THEN turning on the key and I got it to fire up.

The bike now has nearly 23K miles, plugs with 4055 miles. There are no error codes that come up. Inquiring minds would love to know what the problem is.

 

[Geezer]

or the ignition, as I suspect, is highly voltage dependent, and will not tolerate less than a perfect battery in these situations.

radman suggests that the battery may be the problem. Have you taken a voltage meter to the battery? If you are using a lot of electricity when riding then maybe a few days of sitting is enough to let it run down just enough to cause a problem. Just a thought.

 

[Windjammer]

Have you taken a voltage meter to the battery?

Make sure you check voltage when the key is off AND while cranking. I've seen cycle batteries that showed 14 volts, but would barely crank the bike over and showed as little as 8 volts while doing so.
Check and/or replace the battery, especially if you have never done so since buying the bike. Cycle batteries don't last like car batteries. If that don't do the trick, I'd try replacing the TPS.

 

[Geezer]

I was thinking about this on my way home yesterday.. better then thinking about work anyway...

Does anyone know if the fule system remains pressurized after the bike is switched off? Maybe one of the injectors is leaking a little and pressure in the fule system is enough to let a bunch of fuel through.

Even though there is a separate injector for each cylinder I assume that they all squirt into a plenum of some sort and over time that fuel would disperse across the head and get sucked in when the starter is turned.

Just a thought... now my head hurts.

 

[radman]

WFO throttle shuts down fuel flow when done at startup, at least in most FI systems. May be time for a sensor workup, by the numbers. Did ya check the tps on the display for closed and open throttle readings? They have taken a **** before, with no error codes given. A tendency to flood means either improper fuel flow for the conditions, or weak or no spark. Temp sensor tells the ecm the engine is cold, kicks on the cold start valve (an idle kicker on this machine), and increases dwell on the injectors (longer pulse, more flow). Check the vac hose to the press regulator for presence of fuel. This will flood a motor every time. Anyway, a bad temp sensor (ecm) will cause a lean start condition, and she'll start hard, but in warm weather, will occasionally fire. Might light off, might not. I'm brainstormin here, and getting tired. It would seem you have either weak ignition, or a leaky pressure regulator. Just guesses, if I had it in front of me, I could guess better. The bad regulator would also make for hard hot starts.

 

[radman]

Even though there is a separate injector for each cylinder I assume that they all squirt into a plenum of some sort and over time that fuel would disperse across the head and get sucked in when the starter is turned.

Nope. One injector feeds one cylinder period-no crossover. The system does remain pressurized after shutdown, and leaky injectors might be a possibility. But not all 4 at once. One injector leaking down might cause a hard start, but not a no start, especially cold. This would be more of a hot start problem.,, At start up, the ecm fires all the injectors once, then waits for a cyl id sensor signal, firing in pairs 1 and 4, 2 and 3 until the engine fires. All this is, however, determined by the reading of the temp sensor. If it reads warm, it will act as though the engine needs no enrichment, and act accordingly. This would, I would think, be indicated by a lean pop through the intake every few cycles of the crankshaft. I just don't know this system well enough yet to be able to offer a whole lot I'm afraid.....

 

[MrVvrroomm]

There is no hot start problem whatsoever. The problem, twice now, has been when the bike has sat for 3 weeks once, then 2 days the next time.

The bike sat for 3 days after I got it started, while swapping tires, changing oil, etc. and fired up just fine.

The only difference between the past no starts was, and this is really silly, is that it was parked in my upper garage. LOL

Perhaps there's something funky in my lower garage. Maybe she gets jealous sitting next to all the other bikes in the lower garage and is acting up. When she was in my upper garage parked between a couple of cars she fires right up.

I know there's a problem, and I'm sure it's not going to fix itself, but she's going to have to wait.

 

[socalrk]

Odd, the 2 times my bike had a engine problem it was a day or two after a wash. I was able to get it normal again by simply unplugging/plugging the ecu. I think that perhaps water got in somewhere and created an abnormal electrical condition that caused the ecu to glitch. I no longer let water get directly on the dash/ignition switch area while washing and the problem has not come back since(fingers crossed!).

MrVvrroomm,

If it happens again, try the ecu trick first(I know, more complicated than wfo trick) and post results. Could shed light on problem. If it happens to me again, I'll try the wfo trick.

 

[MrVvrroomm]

Odd, the 2 times my bike had a engine problem it was a day or two after a wash. I was able to get it normal again by simply unplugging/plugging the ecu. I think that perhaps water got in somewhere and created an abnormal electrical condition that caused the ecu to glitch. I no longer let water get directly on the dash/ignition switch area while washing and the problem has not come back since(fingers crossed!).

Hmmmm, the 2 times it's happened to me...it's been after it had been washed. The first time the bike had a good 3 weeks to dry off. LOL

The 2nd time I washed the bike upon return from our trip. Gave me the same problem 2 days later.

Hmmmmm