Cam Timing

[Attila]

Does anyone have the camshaft opening and closing figures/events for the cams in the FJR. The Yamaha shop manual has the figures for lift (.317) but no timing/event sequence. I called Yamaha in California and after being switched around to four different people finally winding up with a guy in Cobb County Georgia, I got zippo. According to the Yamaha parts site the cams are the same for all models and both the intake and exhaust cams have the same part numbers which is weird but they could I suppose be installed on different lobe centers.

You can figure the duration and timing events by degreeing the cams in the motor which is a pain but it would be nice to know how big/small the cams are which would help in my decision should I want MegaCycle or WEB Cams to make me a hard weld set of cams at some point in the future...like when I have to take the cams out to change the valve adjustment shims.

The FJR is geared really high for touring and so you can't use a lot of camshaft duration as it would kill the low end grunt but you could certainly use more lift which helps through out the power curve and I'm betting the event angles are bogus from a performance standpoint.

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Dan

 

[RadioHowie]

Way over my head on this one. I'll pass.

 

[mattster31]

I can't help you with that one either.....................but.................isn't the bike fast enough?????

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Does anyone have the camshaft opening and closing figures/events for the cams in the FJR. The Yamaha shop manual has ...no timing/event sequence. I called Yamaha ... got zippo. According to the Yamaha parts site the cams are the same for all models and both the intake and exhaust cams have the same part numbers which is weird but they could I suppose be installed on different lobe centers.

No, not really (same parts) -- and, they (both intake and exhaust) could/will have the same lobe centers.

You can figure the duration and timing events by degreeing the cams in the motor which is a pain but it would be nice to know how big/small the cams are

Given the torque curve of the FJR1300 (and the relative lack of performance tuning bits: downdraft T/Bs. long/tuneable intake runners, etc.), I'd imagine a fairly conservative overlap in addition to the modest lift.

... which would help in my decision should I want MegaCycle or WEB Cams to make me a hard weld set of cams at some point in the future...

Many cam grinders have 'trademark' specs. they favor for certain type/size engines and different uses: economy; torque (motorhome/truck); rally; race; turbo-charging; etc.

The FJR is geared really high for touring

I think you may be the only one who's ever posted on this forum that the FJR is geared too tall? Most who've commented on the FJR's overall gearing have complained that it's too low -- and needs a sixth, over-drive, gear.

...and so you can't use a lot of camshaft duration as it would kill the low end grunt

As inline-four m/c engines go, I think the FJR has considerable grunt.

but you could certainly use more lift which helps through out the power curve

I agree -- rather modest lift. I'm guessing there are many other factors influencing Yamaha's camshaft design -- not the least of which are: emission regulations and long-term durability.

...and I'm betting the event angles are bogus from a performance standpoint.

Could be...? Depending on your intended usage (racing style), lobe centers around 105* may yield sufficient overlap to wake-up the FJR (given the breathing constraints -- especially intake).

I don't know if slotted cam-sprockets are readily available -- maybe snow-mobile accessory suppliers? -- but, you could always fab your own.... The sprocket tooth spacing is, of course, too coarse for tuning.

Neither do we know the rod length/stroke ratio -- which could determine what may be ultimately possible, tuning-wise.

Any information would be appreciated.Thanks.

You're welcome.

 

[Attila]

Does anyone have the camshaft opening and closing figures/events for the cams in the FJR. The Yamaha shop manual has ...no timing/event sequence. I called Yamaha ... got zippo. According to the Yamaha parts site the cams are the same for all models and both the intake and exhaust cams have the same part numbers which is weird but they could I suppose be installed on different lobe centers.

No, not really -- they (both intake and exhaust) could have the same lobe centers.

You can figure the duration and timing events by degreeing the cams in the motor which is a pain but it would be nice to know how big/small the cams are

Given the torque curve of the FJR1300 (and the relative lack of performance tuning bits: downdraft T/Bs. long/tuneable intake runners, etc.), I'd imagine a fairly conservative overlap in addition to the modest lift.

... which would help in my decision should I want MegaCycle or WEB Cams to make me a hard weld set of cams at some point in the future...

Many cam grinders have 'trademark' specs. they favor for certain type/size engines and different uses: economy; torque (motorhome/truck); rally; race; turbo-charging; etc.

The FJR is geared really high for touring

I think you may be the only one who's ever posted on this forum that the FJR is geared too tall? Most who've commented on the FJR's overall gearing have complained that it's too low -- and needs a sixth, over-drive, gear.

...and so you can't use a lot of camshaft duration as it would kill the low end grunt

As inline-four m/c engines go, I think the FJR has considerable grunt.

but you could certainly use more lift which helps through out the power curve

I agree -- rather modest lift. I'm guessing there are many other factors influencing Yamaha's camshaft design -- not the least of which are: emission regulations and long-term durability.

...and I'm betting the event angles are bogus from a performance standpoint.

Could be...? Depending on your intended usage (racing style), lobe centers around 105* may yield sufficient overlap to wake-up the FJR (given the breathing constraints -- especially intake).

I don't know if slotted cam-sprockets are readily available -- maybe snow-mobile accesory suppliers? -- but, you could always fab your own.... The sprocket tooth spacing is, of course, too coarse for tuning.

Neither do we know the rod length/stroke ratio -- which could determine what may be ultimately possible, tuning-wise.

Any information would be appreciated.Thanks.

You're welcome.

Rod ratios are the last thing to worry about when it comes to tuning an engine as number one you can't easily alter it and number two it's not deemed as important as it once was but rod length/rod ratio has become shorter in today's racing engines. My old XS-1100 Yamaha Special had a rod ratio of 1.85, 2.7 stroke and a 5 inch rod but I would bet the rod ratio in the FJR is much less for several reasons. The FJR has a 2.6" stroke but I don't know what the rod length is but I'll find out if I have to buy a rod to do it.

It's easy to machine the cam sprockets on a Bridgeport so as to allow you to advance or retard the cams but advancing or retarding the cams is mainly a tuning aid as the most important event in the cam events is the intake closing as this is what makes either more or less cylinder pressure. Advancing the cams = more low end, retarding the cams = more top end. You can get yourself a degree wheel that's designed for degreeing cams and by studying it you can determine what happens to the intake valve closing when you advance or retard it. If you have to advance or retard a cam more than 4-6 degrees to achieve what you want in the torque curve, you need a different cam. As far as gearing goes, the over all 5th. gear ratio in the Gen II FJR's is 3.91 which means it's only spinning about 3200 rpm at 60 mph which is a pretty tall gear. 5,000 rpm in 5th. gear is 95 mph and so I can't imagine why anybody would want a taller gear. The over all 4th. gear ratio in my FJR at 4.54 is taller than the 5th. gear ratio (4.70) in my Max. You can't cruise down the Interstate at 95 mph consistently without ultimately going to the big house with your beloved FJR hanging from the hook of Bubba's tow truck and so yes I would like a little lower gear but I can't change it and so I'll live with it. People wanting a 6th. gear are simply wanting to emulate the C-14 Kawasaki which is actually a pooch accelerating in high gear from anything south of 100 mph.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

It's easy to machine the cam sprockets on a Bridgeport so as to allow you to advance or retard the cams but advancing or retarding the cams is mainly a tuning aid as the most important event in the cam events is the intake closing as this is what makes either more or less cylinder pressure.

Yes, and the exhaust valve opening event (creating, or diminishing, overlap). Where, in the FJR's operating-range of RPM, you have cylinder pressure determines your engine's 'state of tune'.

Advancing the cams = more low end, retarding the cams = more top end. You can get yourself a degree wheel that's designed for degreeing cams and by studying it you can determine what happens to the intake valve closing when you advance or retard it. If you have to advance or retard a cam more than 4-6 degrees to achieve what you want in the torque curve, you need a different cam.

Sounds like you've got the situation well-in-hand?

As for engine modifications -- I think only the snowmobilers have much (mod) info on Yamaha 4-strokes (maybe an FZ1 site, too?)?

(certainly not this forum -- AKA: "the old ladies' FJR knitting circle".... )

As far as gearing goes, the over all 5th. gear ratio in the Gen II FJR's is 3.91 which means it's only spinning about 3200 rpm at 60 mph which is a pretty tall gear. 5,000 rpm in 5th. gear is 95 mph and so I can't imagine why anybody would want a taller gear. The over all 4th. gear ratio in my FJR at 4.54 is taller than the 5th. gear ratio (4.70) in my Max. You can't cruise down the Interstate at 95 mph consistently without ultimately going to the big house with your beloved FJR hanging from the hook of Bubba's tow truck and so yes I would like a little lower gear but I can't change it and so I'll live with it. People wanting a 6th. gear are simply wanting to emulate the C-14 Kawasaki which is actually a pooch accelerating in high gear from anything south of 100 mph.

I wish you'd post your views in the many, many, threads stating the FJR needs a 6th gear/less revs/etc....!

I'm with you, BTW....

 

[Attila]

It's easy to machine the cam sprockets on a Bridgeport so as to allow you to advance or retard the cams but advancing or retarding the cams is mainly a tuning aid as the most important event in the cam events is the intake closing as this is what makes either more or less cylinder pressure.

Yes, and the exhaust valve opening event (creating, or diminishing, overlap). Where, in the FJR's operating-range of RPM, you have cylinder pressure determines your engine's 'state of tune'.

Advancing the cams = more low end, retarding the cams = more top end. You can get yourself a degree wheel that's designed for degreeing cams and by studying it you can determine what happens to the intake valve closing when you advance or retard it. If you have to advance or retard a cam more than 4-6 degrees to achieve what you want in the torque curve, you need a different cam.

Sounds like you've got the situation well-in-hand?

As for engine modifications -- I think only the snowmobilers have much (mod) info on Yamaha 4-strokes (maybe an FZ1 site, too?)?

(certainly not this forum -- AKA: "the old ladies' FJR knitting circle".... ) I do have some info on modifying Yamaha 4-strokes, I just don't have a lot of info on the FJR, I jusy got one. I completely stoked my XS-1100 Special which I still have and made a 1324 cc number from my FJ-1100 and of course my recently departed V-Max got some tweaks but it never got a big bore kit.

It's beginning to dawn on me that most people who buy FJRs don't mess with motor with maybe the possible exception of mufflers, Power Commanders and air box mods.

There is a lot of info about how to raise the handlebars and make a feather pillow out of the seat but little else which is a shame actually because the big JR has lot's of potential and with a dry weight of only 570 lbs minus the bags for the ABS model it's not all that heavy because a Busa weighs 540 dry without ABS. I weighed the bags on mine and those stupid things weighed 14 pounds each and they will stay off unless I take a long trip. Removing the bags on my FJR brought my wet weight down from 642 pounds to 614 pounds which is equal to a 6.58 hp increase which is more than what you get by installing somebody's slip on aftermarket mufflers. The top end on an FJR with the bags is 149 mph and bagless it stopped the gun @ 155 mph, that's a heck of an increase plus it's slicker looking without them. A Busa makes a boat load more power because of it's state of tune and naturaly it has a stump pulling type gear ratio but the riding position on the Busa relegates it to short rides or to the mentally insane.

I'll be going now, I gotta get back to my knitting club.

As far as gearing goes, the over all 5th. gear ratio in the Gen II FJR's is 3.91 which means it's only spinning about 3200 rpm at 60 mph which is a pretty tall gear. 5,000 rpm in 5th. gear is 95 mph and so I can't imagine why anybody would want a taller gear. The over all 4th. gear ratio in my FJR at 4.54 is taller than the 5th. gear ratio (4.70) in my Max. You can't cruise down the Interstate at 95 mph consistently without ultimately going to the big house with your beloved FJR hanging from the hook of Bubba's tow truck and so yes I would like a little lower gear but I can't change it and so I'll live with it. People wanting a 6th. gear are simply wanting to emulate the C-14 Kawasaki which is actually a pooch accelerating in high gear from anything south of 100 mph.

I wish you'd post your views in the many, many, threads stating the FJR needs a 6th gear/less revs/etc....!

I'm with you, BTW....

 

[ridgerunner88]

I would look into the Legend car guys in the NASCAR circuit. From what I've been told, they use the same motors in many of them as the fjr. They would have info on any cam you could think of or at least where to get one ground the way you want it. This is what I've heard, could be wrong.

 

[RadioHowie]

Does anyone have the camshaft opening and closing figures/events for the cams in the FJR. The Yamaha shop manual has the figures for lift (.317) but no timing/event sequence. I called Yamaha in California and after being switched around to four different people finally winding up with a guy in Cobb County Georgia, I got zippo. According to the Yamaha parts site the cams are the same for all models and both the intake and exhaust cams have the same part numbers which is weird but they could I suppose be installed on different lobe centers.
You can figure the duration and timing events by degreeing the cams in the motor which is a pain but it would be nice to know how big/small the cams are which would help in my decision should I want MegaCycle or WEB Cams to make me a hard weld set of cams at some point in the future...like when I have to take the cams out to change the valve adjustment shims.

The FJR is geared really high for touring and so you can't use a lot of camshaft duration as it would kill the low end grunt but you could certainly use more lift which helps through out the power curve and I'm betting the event angles are bogus from a performance standpoint.

Any information would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Dan

Does this info help?

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Does this info help?

You bet....! Thanks (where you find dat...?)

Now we know almost everything we need to know....: .317" lift; lobe centers: 100* (inlet) - 105* (exhaust); 55* overlap. We don't know at what valve clearances these specs are valid (doesn't matter for lobe centers) nor how soft/lumpy the lobe profile is -- but, suffice to say (from a performance/motorcycle perspective) they're pretty mild cams.

Which most of us knew -- when I first rode my FJR on mountain roads, I was often in too low a gear for the corner -- it just pulls so well at a lower RPM than I'm used to for a sporting in-line four.

Kudos to Yamaha for about 100 HP/L., nicely streetable, meets emissions, runs on 'regular', all with 'mild cams'.

New terminology (courtesy of 'Atilla'):

<snip>...big JR has lot's of potential

"Big Junior" -- "F Junior" -- "Big F Junior" --

 

[RadioHowie]

Does this info help?

You bet....! Thanks (where you find dat...?)

On the #1 FJR1300 information site in the universe.......

In other words, right HERE on this forum.

 

[dcarver]

So then, I have some hardweld rod left from JohnnieDeere's box scraper.

Guess I need to get them feejer cams out this weekend and start welding / grinding.

I'll let ya'll know when I have the 120 mpg 375 hp 210 hp CrZy8 project Rocket completed.. :derisive:

 

[RadioHowie]

So then, I have some hardweld rod left from JohnnieDeere's box scraper.Guess I need to get them feejer cams out this weekend and start welding / grinding.

I'll let ya'll know when I have the 120 mpg 375 hp 210 hp CrZy8 project Rocket completed.. :derisive:

Dude, you been sniffing fresh paint too long. :lol:

 

[dcarver]

So then, I have some hardweld rod left from JohnnieDeere's box scraper.Guess I need to get them feejer cams out this weekend and start welding / grinding.

I'll let ya'll know when I have the 120 mpg 375 hp 210 hp CrZy8 project Rocket completed.. :derisive:

Dude, you been sniffing fresh paint too long. :lol:

Actually, John Deere paint is one of the better paints you can find, just sayin'.. I hope the OP can find good cam numbers that 'waken' the FJR to life; I like the stock power but would love to have an Feejer on 'roids... just sayin... :****:

 

[RadioHowie]

So then, I have some hardweld rod left from JohnnieDeere's box scraper.Guess I need to get them feejer cams out this weekend and start welding / grinding.

I'll let ya'll know when I have the 120 mpg 375 hp 210 hp CrZy8 project Rocket completed.. :derisive:

Dude, you been sniffing fresh paint too long. :lol:

Actually, John Deere paint is one of the better paints you can find, just sayin'.. I hope the OP can find good cam numbers that 'waken' the FJR to life; I like the stock power but would love to have an Feejer on 'roids... just sayin... :****:

Leavin' the Feej stock, but wonder what one of these would do on my ZRX?

 

[lnewlf]

Now yer talkin'- Saw a blower on a Gold Wing at Loudon, NH. Watched the guy lay down 200 hp on the dyno!

 

[Attila]

Does this info help?

You bet....! Thanks (where you find dat...?)

On the #1 FJR1300 information site in the universe.......

In other words, right HERE on this forum.

This is great information and now I know why my 08 FJR runs like a tractor on the bottom end is done by 9000 rpm. Yamaha figures their event angles starting at the ramp of the lobe with zero lash and so the FJR's cam which has 260 degrees on both intake and exhaust the way Yamaha figures it would have about 225-228 degrees at .040 lift. A V-Max has 276 degrees on both intake and exhaust the way Yamaha figures it and 241 degrees on both at .040 lift. The FJR crushes Mr. Max in both HP and torque all the way to about 9,000 rpm when Max finally catches up and by 9,250 rpm passes the mighty Feejer when it runs out of camshaft however by that time the Feejer is lone gone and the race is over.

With the bags removed the Fiji is actually 10 pounds lighter than Max even carrying 2.6 gallons more gas and even though the Fiji's 4th. gear is only equal to Maxes 5th. gear you can't beat cubic inches and ole Max gets beaten by a friggin bagger.

My 96 V-Max actually felt more evil than my 08 FJR however my brother and I through roll on test on Interstate 255 concluded the FJR would get Maxes lunch from 50 mph up and the further up the scale you started from the worse the ass whoupin got.

Ten degrees more cam timing and a set of exhaust pipes with no cats would really wake the FJR up on the big end with little loss of low end torque........I'm starting to really like this bike even though it sounds like a big sewing machine.

 

[dcarver]

Does this info help?

You bet....! Thanks (where you find dat...?)

On the #1 FJR1300 information site in the universe.......

In other words, right HERE on this forum.

This is great information and now I know why my 08 FJR runs like a tractor on the bottom end is done by 9000 rpm. Yamaha figures their event angles starting at the ramp of the lobe with zero lash and so the FJR's cam which has 260 degrees on both intake and exhaust the way Yamaha figures it would have about 225-228 degrees at .040 lift. A V-Max has 276 degrees on both intake and exhaust the way Yamaha figures it and 241 degrees on both at .040 lift. The FJR crushes Mr. Max in both HP and torque all the way to about 9,000 rpm when Max finally catches up and by 9,250 rpm passes the mighty Feejer when it runs out of camshaft however by that time the Feejer is lone gone and the race is over.

With the bags removed the Fiji is actually 10 pounds lighter than Max even carrying 2.6 gallons more gas and even though the Fiji's 4th. gear is only equal to Maxes 5th. gear you can't beat cubic inches and ole Max gets beaten by a friggin bagger.

My 96 V-Max actually felt more evil than my 08 FJR however my brother and I through roll on test on Interstate 255 concluded the FJR would get Maxes lunch from 50 mph up and the further up the scale you started from the worse the ass whoupin got.

Ten degrees more cam timing and a set of exhaust pipes with no cats would really wake the FJR up on the big end with little loss of low end torque........I'm starting to really like this bike even though it sounds like a big sewing machine.

OK, I gotta bite. You going to try the 10 degrees more / pipes / no cats trick? I hope so, would love to hear the results. :yahoo:

 

[madmike2]

Ssshhhhhh, don't tell Howie!

He's already put a "sleeper" '03 street-racer engine in his bike.