Great news!!
My guess is that it will continue to be a "no flashing" ride for some time.
Clearwaters or electrical system – is flashing your Kristas a crime?
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My guess is that it will continue to be a "no flashing" ride for some time.
I still can't figure out how the old battery was making the Krista's flash without affecting any of the other electrical devices. Glad it works for you now, but just makes me wonder..and scratch my head.
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Mine flashed when I used the turn signals etc. I fixed it by disconnecting the horn wire for the Kristas. I think the turn signals pulsed the ground or something. I haven't had time to check it out. But the problem went away and has not returned in the last six months.
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Brodie
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Let me put a new wrinkle in this odd behavior...
2006 AE with 65,000 miles on the clock. I put my Kristas and Glenda's on it shortly after I bought it used 3 years ago with 8,000 miles. When I installed them I picked up both the "turn on" and high beam signals from the high beam relay pigtail under the left upper dash panel. When it rained (or got wet from a bath) the high beam trigger shorted out to the "turn on" trigger at that splice location. The LEDs would stay bright until the pigtail dried out. I fixed that early on.
It's been over 2 years without a hiccup, until now. I
My Clearwaters flash occasionally when - and only when I make a gear change. Remember, my bike is an electric shift.
This behavior started when I bought a new OEM battery direct from my Yamaha dealer, and also installed the 8 gage direct line from my voltage regulator to my battery. The only break in the line is the 50 amp fuse I installed next to its identical twin that Yamaha uses for the main on their harness. Before this upgrade the bike was suffering from low voltage at anything above idle speed. A Shorai battery (@13.3 standing volts) and 13.7 volts at 5000 rpm doesn't instill much confidence. Since installing the 8 gage red and black wires the bike runs at a solid 14.1 volts! That coupled with a 12.7 standing volts for the battery gives me plenty of electrical headroom before I start discharging the thing while driving down the road.
Since this upgrade the Clearwaters will occasionally flash with a gear change. An AE has a substantial momentary power draw to make that event happen, and it shows up on the Datel. Right now I'm attempting to isolate the problem. I first disconnected the horn trigger wire from the auxiliary horn relay. The flash still happened. Several nights later the headlight trigger wire was also disconnected, and the flash went away. Both white trigger wires are in a pigtail along with the red " turn on" wire coming from the Clearwater black box. Glenn tels me that the 2 white wires are identical in function and it does not matter which one attaches to the high beam or horn relay. With that in mind, I took the white wire that was the horn trigger and tied into the high beam. The flash came back. That ruled out the horn circuit and relay.
The next thing I will try will be to see if the headlight relay is faulty. I will disconnect the wire leading from it to ground. The theory being that the relay trigger sees the power drop and surge and mis-triggers. Following that will be hooking that wire back up and disconnect the wire from the high beam output side of the relay. This relay is normally on low beam and is triggered to high beam - either/or.
Question for the smart people on this forum...
The blue high beam indicator light is an LED on the 2nd gen. bikes. Is it possible for a power surge to overpower that diode and send a signal back to the Clearwater black box to momentarily flash it's lights? I tend not to think so, either a diode is good or it's blown. I'm not aware that it could become marginal.
My other thoughts are that somehow a surge is back feeding this high beam branch through the filiments of the headlight bulbs themselves. That would cause a flash. I may be putting a diode between the trigger splice and the headlight bulbs.
We shall see.
Dan, good luck I with your problem. Hopefully a battery change will do the trick for you. Please keep us updated.
Brodie
2006 AE with 65,000 miles on the clock. I put my Kristas and Glenda's on it shortly after I bought it used 3 years ago with 8,000 miles. When I installed them I picked up both the "turn on" and high beam signals from the high beam relay pigtail under the left upper dash panel. When it rained (or got wet from a bath) the high beam trigger shorted out to the "turn on" trigger at that splice location. The LEDs would stay bright until the pigtail dried out. I fixed that early on.
It's been over 2 years without a hiccup, until now. I
My Clearwaters flash occasionally when - and only when I make a gear change. Remember, my bike is an electric shift.
This behavior started when I bought a new OEM battery direct from my Yamaha dealer, and also installed the 8 gage direct line from my voltage regulator to my battery. The only break in the line is the 50 amp fuse I installed next to its identical twin that Yamaha uses for the main on their harness. Before this upgrade the bike was suffering from low voltage at anything above idle speed. A Shorai battery (@13.3 standing volts) and 13.7 volts at 5000 rpm doesn't instill much confidence. Since installing the 8 gage red and black wires the bike runs at a solid 14.1 volts! That coupled with a 12.7 standing volts for the battery gives me plenty of electrical headroom before I start discharging the thing while driving down the road.
Since this upgrade the Clearwaters will occasionally flash with a gear change. An AE has a substantial momentary power draw to make that event happen, and it shows up on the Datel. Right now I'm attempting to isolate the problem. I first disconnected the horn trigger wire from the auxiliary horn relay. The flash still happened. Several nights later the headlight trigger wire was also disconnected, and the flash went away. Both white trigger wires are in a pigtail along with the red " turn on" wire coming from the Clearwater black box. Glenn tels me that the 2 white wires are identical in function and it does not matter which one attaches to the high beam or horn relay. With that in mind, I took the white wire that was the horn trigger and tied into the high beam. The flash came back. That ruled out the horn circuit and relay.
The next thing I will try will be to see if the headlight relay is faulty. I will disconnect the wire leading from it to ground. The theory being that the relay trigger sees the power drop and surge and mis-triggers. Following that will be hooking that wire back up and disconnect the wire from the high beam output side of the relay. This relay is normally on low beam and is triggered to high beam - either/or.
Question for the smart people on this forum...
The blue high beam indicator light is an LED on the 2nd gen. bikes. Is it possible for a power surge to overpower that diode and send a signal back to the Clearwater black box to momentarily flash it's lights? I tend not to think so, either a diode is good or it's blown. I'm not aware that it could become marginal.
My other thoughts are that somehow a surge is back feeding this high beam branch through the filiments of the headlight bulbs themselves. That would cause a flash. I may be putting a diode between the trigger splice and the headlight bulbs.
We shall see.
Dan, good luck I with your problem. Hopefully a battery change will do the trick for you. Please keep us updated.
Brodie
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HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
Did a new battery FIX the problem, or is it just able to mask the real underlying issue?
I ask this because one time, my wife's Expedition would not start...So I replaced the battery. The Expedition started great for two weeks...Then the starter took a huge ****. Turned out, it was the starter all along. The older weaker battery was having issues pushing it. The brand new DieHard was able to force the starter to work for two weeks...And then the starter went beyond what event he new battery could provide.
Could what you're experiencing be the same thing? The problem is still there, but is being masked by a new battery with just a little more juice?
Edit: I think Brodie was asking the same thing I am asking...Just more eloquently than me. He got his posted before I did...
I ask this because one time, my wife's Expedition would not start...So I replaced the battery. The Expedition started great for two weeks...Then the starter took a huge ****. Turned out, it was the starter all along. The older weaker battery was having issues pushing it. The brand new DieHard was able to force the starter to work for two weeks...And then the starter went beyond what event he new battery could provide.
Could what you're experiencing be the same thing? The problem is still there, but is being masked by a new battery with just a little more juice?
Edit: I think Brodie was asking the same thing I am asking...Just more eloquently than me. He got his posted before I did...
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ionbeam
2 FUN
It is certain that how you have the Kristas wired will affect how they perform. Clearwater has a download on how to wire their lights. Proper grounding is very important, there are some places that seem like a good ground but aren't, such as anyplace on the front end.
While the lights may be working, it's doubtful that the battery was root cause. The battery may mask the underlying issue but not fix it.
Edit: My, was there a flurry of replies while I was typing this now redundant reply.
While the lights may be working, it's doubtful that the battery was root cause. The battery may mask the underlying issue but not fix it.
Edit: My, was there a flurry of replies while I was typing this now redundant reply.
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Brodie
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For what it's worth, my Clearwater system is connected to my Eastern Beaver PC8 under my seat - both positive and negative wires. The PC8 is hooked up to the battery via. 10 gage wire. I don't think I have much voltage drop or marginal grounding.
Good question though.
Brodie
Good question though.
Brodie
glas1/2ful
Well-known member
well. commute night 2 w/ no flashing.
At least as far as my install goes, no horn wire connection from the get-go and otherwise straight to the + and - of the battery with the Clearwater wires per the installation instructions - I don't even think I know enough to deviate from that, but also think my first full winter of flawless operation suggests at least then that the original install was OK
ALL i did this go-round was replace an apparently fine WestCo w/ a Yuasa. but I am not declaring "mission accomplished" for awhile!
If it wasn't duck season I'd swap the batteries again to see if the flashing comes back, and to keep that option open, will keep the 3 and 1/2 year old WestCo on a tender until I can get around to it.
At least as far as my install goes, no horn wire connection from the get-go and otherwise straight to the + and - of the battery with the Clearwater wires per the installation instructions - I don't even think I know enough to deviate from that, but also think my first full winter of flawless operation suggests at least then that the original install was OK
ALL i did this go-round was replace an apparently fine WestCo w/ a Yuasa. but I am not declaring "mission accomplished" for awhile!
If it wasn't duck season I'd swap the batteries again to see if the flashing comes back, and to keep that option open, will keep the 3 and 1/2 year old WestCo on a tender until I can get around to it.
glas1/2ful
Well-known member
Seems the folks that question the fix are right.
No troubles from early Nov to early Dec, early last week I saw one flash w/ turn signal activation. Became more common through this week until last night it was flashing w/ brake activation as well.
Remember all my riding now is restricted to about a 50 mi round trip commute each work day.
Standing voltage this morning on the 2 month old YUSA was 12.9 and the old WestCo on a tender that I was hanging onto to do a "replace and see what happens test later" is at 13.3
put the tender on the YUSA in the bike and will just see if a voltage increase makes a difference next week
any other suggestions welcome; I am concluding that I am not getting a proper test of the charging system or is it that the limited riding is the problem?
No troubles from early Nov to early Dec, early last week I saw one flash w/ turn signal activation. Became more common through this week until last night it was flashing w/ brake activation as well.
Remember all my riding now is restricted to about a 50 mi round trip commute each work day.
Standing voltage this morning on the 2 month old YUSA was 12.9 and the old WestCo on a tender that I was hanging onto to do a "replace and see what happens test later" is at 13.3
put the tender on the YUSA in the bike and will just see if a voltage increase makes a difference next week
any other suggestions welcome; I am concluding that I am not getting a proper test of the charging system or is it that the limited riding is the problem?
That is a bummer to hear.
Will be interesting to see if the increase in standing voltage makes a difference. I'm thinking it will and that the clearwater circuitry needs a high and tight range.
I'll be watching...
Will be interesting to see if the increase in standing voltage makes a difference. I'm thinking it will and that the clearwater circuitry needs a high and tight range.
I'll be watching...
Brodie
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I think my fix for the flash issue is working.
I decided to completely isolate my Clearwater from the bike's wiring. The horn circuit was already done via a relay changing the negatively switched horn to a positive signal to the Clearwater black box. I now have a relay in between the high beam signal and Clearwater black box. Both these relays get their power from the same circuit that powers up the LED lights in the first place - at my PC8 fuse box under my seat. Both white wires that trigger full intensity, as well as the red "turn on wire" are now completely isolated. Things are working as they should.
I hope this helps Dan.
Brodie
I decided to completely isolate my Clearwater from the bike's wiring. The horn circuit was already done via a relay changing the negatively switched horn to a positive signal to the Clearwater black box. I now have a relay in between the high beam signal and Clearwater black box. Both these relays get their power from the same circuit that powers up the LED lights in the first place - at my PC8 fuse box under my seat. Both white wires that trigger full intensity, as well as the red "turn on wire" are now completely isolated. Things are working as they should.
I hope this helps Dan.
Brodie
Brodie
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By the way, my new OEM battery's standing voltage is @12.7 and is doing just fine starting the bike at 28 degrees in these cold Sunnyvale mornings.
Brodie
Brodie
glas1/2ful
Well-known member
whelp - first for Tanker - the little re-charge back to a standing voltage of ~13.1 made no difference.
Brodie - thanks! I am 99.9% sure I need some follow-up guidance. I have a fuse box sitting around for install but never got around to it, so will have to use this as motivation to get that done. Will search on suggested install instructions but then I am already confused about the relay between the Clearwater brain and the high beams, I have never hooked up the horn circuit. But let me see if I have this part right:
My red "turn on" wire is currently on a switched wire as part of the bike circuitry (don't remember which one I tapped) but you have that straight to the fuse box (I presume on a circuit that is also switched?).
I have a white wire running from the clearwater brain to a highbeam wire, but you installed a relay, which is wired to a highbeam wire and is activated through the fuse box? Arghh - that simple thing is making my head hurt!
I may need to see if I can entice you into some face time on this one!
I too have had no trouble starting in similar morning temperatures out here in the valley. I guess I will always be puzzled by the fact that my initial install worked just fine for the first year - what could have changed?
thanks for all the input! and Merry Christmas too!
Brodie - thanks! I am 99.9% sure I need some follow-up guidance. I have a fuse box sitting around for install but never got around to it, so will have to use this as motivation to get that done. Will search on suggested install instructions but then I am already confused about the relay between the Clearwater brain and the high beams, I have never hooked up the horn circuit. But let me see if I have this part right:
My red "turn on" wire is currently on a switched wire as part of the bike circuitry (don't remember which one I tapped) but you have that straight to the fuse box (I presume on a circuit that is also switched?).
I have a white wire running from the clearwater brain to a highbeam wire, but you installed a relay, which is wired to a highbeam wire and is activated through the fuse box? Arghh - that simple thing is making my head hurt!
I may need to see if I can entice you into some face time on this one!
I too have had no trouble starting in similar morning temperatures out here in the valley. I guess I will always be puzzled by the fact that my initial install worked just fine for the first year - what could have changed?
thanks for all the input! and Merry Christmas too!
glas1/2ful
Well-known member
Update:
Last Friday (12/27) I started to follow Brodie's lead and finally install a BlueSea and re-wire the Kristas to that, but in the middle of it I again asked myself why did the lights work fine the first year, and then at least for awhile every time I disconnected the battery? (the first time in Oct '12 for the bench test and then Nov '13 w/ the new battery).
I had a long conversation with Glenn at Clearwater - what a great guy, 2 years out of warranty and his words were "come on by, we'll make it right". He was not too excited about not wiring per the install instructions straight to the battery, even tho it seems to be working for Brodie.
So I stopped the fuse box install and did the following:
1 - moved the red turn on wire to another switched-on power source (no logic to doing that)
2 - cleaned the headlight connectors (they were dirty/corroding but otherwise no logic to doing that either)
3 - replaced the ring connector for the negative lead to the battery from the Kristas
4 - cleaned the battery ground wire at both ends (logic here is past car experience on weak grounds creating odd issues)
Just a few night rides since then with no flashing.
I had set up an appt w/ Glenn Friday (1/3) afternoon but called to say there were (currently) no symptoms and we shouldn't waste anyone's time, but when "Glenn" called back it was Brodie - who had come out to help because he was curious! So left work to go visit, at which point a bit of standing around and discussing ensued, some voltage tests of the lights, and an idea to isolate the high beam wire from the rest of the system w/ a switch. Since there are currently no symptoms, we decided to hold off on that diagnostic move until (if, dammit) the flashing re-occurs.
Is it possible that improving the ground connection (it was never obviously bad) has been the problem all along? If the flashing returns, I think I'll clean and re-connect the neg terminal and only do that one single thing.
Will continue to report as warranted and many thanks to all who have weighed in to help, especially Brodie!
Last Friday (12/27) I started to follow Brodie's lead and finally install a BlueSea and re-wire the Kristas to that, but in the middle of it I again asked myself why did the lights work fine the first year, and then at least for awhile every time I disconnected the battery? (the first time in Oct '12 for the bench test and then Nov '13 w/ the new battery).
I had a long conversation with Glenn at Clearwater - what a great guy, 2 years out of warranty and his words were "come on by, we'll make it right". He was not too excited about not wiring per the install instructions straight to the battery, even tho it seems to be working for Brodie.
So I stopped the fuse box install and did the following:
1 - moved the red turn on wire to another switched-on power source (no logic to doing that)
2 - cleaned the headlight connectors (they were dirty/corroding but otherwise no logic to doing that either)
3 - replaced the ring connector for the negative lead to the battery from the Kristas
4 - cleaned the battery ground wire at both ends (logic here is past car experience on weak grounds creating odd issues)
Just a few night rides since then with no flashing.
I had set up an appt w/ Glenn Friday (1/3) afternoon but called to say there were (currently) no symptoms and we shouldn't waste anyone's time, but when "Glenn" called back it was Brodie - who had come out to help because he was curious! So left work to go visit, at which point a bit of standing around and discussing ensued, some voltage tests of the lights, and an idea to isolate the high beam wire from the rest of the system w/ a switch. Since there are currently no symptoms, we decided to hold off on that diagnostic move until (if, dammit) the flashing re-occurs.
Is it possible that improving the ground connection (it was never obviously bad) has been the problem all along? If the flashing returns, I think I'll clean and re-connect the neg terminal and only do that one single thing.
Will continue to report as warranted and many thanks to all who have weighed in to help, especially Brodie!
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