Clutch questions after demo ride

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I absolutely do not worry about the YCCS system on my '07 AE. I'm too busy riding it, enjoying every run up through the gears.
I'm very disappointed, though, that Yamaha isn't making the AE for 2010. If they were going to suspend production on a model, I would have suggested the old fashioned manual clutch model, but that's just me.

As for clutch pull effort, adjusting the lever so it's closer to the bar will do wonders for decreasing the effort required.
Well, considering that they had trouble clearing the AEs out of showrooms at firesale prices, I'm doubtful that would have been a wise business strategy. ;)

The problem with moving the levers in toward the bars on a second gen is that you can lose the ability to fully disengage the clutch. Reported on here by many 2nd gen owners with (small hands?) is that they experience clutch drag with the levers adjusted all the way in. It also doesn't actually change the lever effort, it just puts it into a location that your hand is better able to deal with it.
I absolutely concur with this. I have an 08 which I converted to the Gen I clutch cylinder. I now have to set the lever at the 2nd from the furthest setting to keep from getting the dreaded CLUNK when putting it into 1st gear, and I still have to pull the lever all the way to the bar. Forget about 2 finger operations. With your other fingers on the bar, you can't pull the lever in far enough to disengage. And even this Gen I clutch cylinder is too stiff for me. After several hours of riding, if I run into some stop 'n go, I know my left forearm is going to start cramping up pretty quick. Poor design. One of my few gripes about the FJR, (along with weight, and limited interior pannier space).

 
Just a quick note to thank ya'll for the helpful replies to my questions!

Please excuse me while I go back to searching CL and Ebay.

 
The problem with moving the levers in toward the bars on a second gen is that you can lose the ability to fully disengage the clutch. Reported on here by many 2nd gen owners with (small hands?) is that they experience clutch drag with the levers adjusted all the way in. It also doesn't actually change the lever effort, it just puts it into a location that your hand is better able to deal with it.
In my sample of one, I didn't find it to be the case that the clutch didn't fully disengage after the lever was adjusted all the way in. The only change I could see was that perceived pull effort had decreased by about 40%, so it was a definite win. Given the small differences from bike to bike or year to year, I can see how some would report dragging, though, especially riders with big hands or fat fingers.

By the way, same story for the front brake lever. I adjust it all the way in so that I have better control with two fingers, and I don't run out of lever travel even in (practiced) emergency stops.

 
The problem with moving the levers in toward the bars on a second gen is that you can lose the ability to fully disengage the clutch. Reported on here by many 2nd gen owners with (small hands?) is that they experience clutch drag with the levers adjusted all the way in. It also doesn't actually change the lever effort, it just puts it into a location that your hand is better able to deal with it.
In my sample of one, I didn't find it to be the case that the clutch didn't fully disengage after the lever was adjusted all the way in. The only change I could see was that perceived pull effort had decreased by about 40%, so it was a definite win. Given the small differences from bike to bike or year to year, I can see how some would report dragging, though, especially riders with big hands or fat fingers.

By the way, same story for the front brake lever. I adjust it all the way in so that I have better control with two fingers, and I don't run out of lever travel even in (practiced) emergency stops.

Not to be a wise ass or anything dbx, but... ahem, don't you own an AE? At least your profile says you do... :unsure:

 
I have 23,000 miles on my 08' AE and have had no problems.....it works great. It has been to Valdez, AK and Cape Breton, Nova Scotia from Houston and has worked better then I could ever imagine.

 
My '07 ABS (N. Amer) certainly has a much stiffer clutch pull than my BMW R1200C. I am curious about the nasty clunk going into first gear! I read on a thread if you pull the clutch and give it some time before shifting it will eliminate the gear clunk. I've tried that but it still does not go into gear without that clunk. On my BMW you have to pull the clutch and engage the gear quickly and there is no clunk. Anyone have a solution? I have the lever set at 4.

 
hey Art,

I had the same clunk on mine and did the clutch so discussed considerably on the forum and that fixed her right up. Just do a search for clutch soak and you will find everything you need on the topic.

Hope this helps.

 
He meant to say "clutch soak", which is really a misnomer. What you want to have done (or do) is to remove all the clutch plates, wipoe them clean and then reassemble them after dunking them in oil for liberal lubrication. No need to soak.

That said, they all do tend to "klunk" into first somewhat, even after they are cleaned and lubed up good. Other bikes I have owned (and do own) you couldn't even hear the thing slipping into gear.

 
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The problem with moving the levers in toward the bars on a second gen is that you can lose the ability to fully disengage the clutch. Reported on here by many 2nd gen owners with (small hands?) is that they experience clutch drag with the levers adjusted all the way in. It also doesn't actually change the lever effort, it just puts it into a location that your hand is better able to deal with it.
In my sample of one, I didn't find it to be the case that the clutch didn't fully disengage after the lever was adjusted all the way in. The only change I could see was that perceived pull effort had decreased by about 40%, so it was a definite win. Given the small differences from bike to bike or year to year, I can see how some would report dragging, though, especially riders with big hands or fat fingers.

By the way, same story for the front brake lever. I adjust it all the way in so that I have better control with two fingers, and I don't run out of lever travel even in (practiced) emergency stops.

Not to be a wise ass or anything dbx, but... ahem, don't you own an AE? At least your profile says you do... :unsure:
No, you're fine. :) The clutch experience was with my old 2005 FJR, while the front brake experience related to the '05 as well as the current '07.

 
My '07 ABS (N. Amer) certainly has a much stiffer clutch pull than my BMW R1200C. I am curious about the nasty clunk going into first gear! I read on a thread if you pull the clutch and give it some time before shifting it will eliminate the gear clunk. I've tried that but it still does not go into gear without that clunk. On my BMW you have to pull the clutch and engage the gear quickly and there is no clunk. Anyone have a solution? I have the lever set at 4.
Besides the clutch soak mentioned by others, you can shift into first gear before you start the engine. Yes, I know, too obvious, but hey... :)

 
I'm very disappointed, though, that Yamaha isn't making the AE for 2010. If they were going to suspend production on a model, I would have suggested the old fashioned manual clutch model, but that's just me.

As for clutch pull effort, adjusting the lever so it's closer to the bar will do wonders for decreasing the effort required.
Well, considering that they had trouble clearing the AEs out of showrooms at firesale prices, I'm doubtful that would have been a wise business strategy. ;)

The problem with moving the levers in toward the bars on a second gen is that you can lose the ability to fully disengage the clutch. Reported on here by many 2nd gen owners with (small hands?) is that they experience clutch drag with the levers adjusted all the way in. It also doesn't actually change the lever effort, it just puts it into a location that your hand is better able to deal with it.
Of course, my comment about suspending the A model versus the AE was a bit tongue in cheek, but it also has some validity. I agree that AE models haven't been selling as well as A models and on-hand inventory is probably higher than anyone at Yamaha would like. I blame that on poor marketing and the natural human reaction (i.e., resistance) to change. They've apparently chosen to reduce that inventory by suspending the AE (here in the States) for MY 2010, but what if they had taken a different approach? Another way to sell Model X is to remove its competition from the market, in this case the A model. Undoubtedly, one or more of the suits at Team Y thought that would be too risky and might drive buyers to other brands, but at some point Yamaha needs to show that they're serious about the AE technology, and making it the only available model would go a long way toward doing that. It also would help get the technology closer to the tipping point where enough people start to realize that it's a huge improvement over the status quo that word starts to spread.

In the same way that people were angst-ridden over fuel injection, ABS, linked brakes, slipper clutches, and traction control, to name a few, we'll look back on this discussion some years in the future and smile as we all ride AE-type machines. Maybe not on pure sport bikes, but anything with touring in its name is a great candidate.

As for adjusting the clutch lever all the way in, I didn't experience clutch drag on my 2005 and I don't follow the forum close enough to know if others reported such a problem. However, it's not an all or nothing deal. There are 5 positions available, so I'm confident that a suitable compromise can be found. Regarding clutch pull effort, I have normal sized hands. Depending on brand, my glove size is Medium to Large. For someone like me, position 1 (lever farthest out) was unworkable because the friction zone was out of reach, out of my left hand's power band. Bringing the lever in (to position 5, in my case) put the clutch's friction zone squarely into my hand's power band, which reduced the perceived pull effort greatly. And in the end, perceived pull effort is the only thing that matters. You essentially said the same thing above, so although you initially disagreed with me, in the end you agreed with me. :unsure: :)

 
I blame that on poor marketing ... They've apparently chosen to reduce that inventory by suspending the AE (here in the States) for MY 2010, but what if they had taken a different approach? Another way to sell Model X is to remove its competition from the market, in this case the A model. Undoubtedly, one or more of the suits at Team Y thought that would be too risky and might drive buyers to other brands, but at some point Yamaha needs to show that they're serious about the AE technology

...anything with touring in its name is a great candidate.
I tend to agree -- most (a huge percentage...) of wheeled vehicles in America are "automatics" (try to find a 'manual' car on a lot). There are generations, now, for whom a clutch (and shifting gears) is a problem -- or worse.

Maybe Yamaha didn't go far-enough? Full-Automatic... :unsure:

 
I think it would be a huge mistake to cancel the A model and sell only AE's. And I own an AE.

What I would suggest is a middle ground. If I were King of Yamaha I'd replace the AE with a premium FJR. Let's call it the 'Gen III'.

A Gen III would add the following to the base FJR A:

1) Clutch by wire: Using a simplified YCCS system I'd retain the traditional clutch lever, but delete the A model's primitive steam-shovel style high effort hydraulic clutch control mechanism. Why have a clutch activation device lifted from an 1898 steam engine? If we wanted to live in the 19th century we'd be driving V-Twins!

I'd have the clutch lever directly connected to an A/D converter connected by wire to the YCCS computer. The YCCS would only actuate the clutch proportional to the movement of the lever, so the YCCS software and hardware box could be much smaller. The big win would effortless control of the clutch with a traditional lever.

2) Cruise control: For heaven's sake, some of the Star cruisers have cruise control. There is no Yamaha Goldwing to protect! This is a total no brainer!

3) HID head lights, very large bright LED tail and brake lights. Another no-brainer

4) 'Eco mode'. It's a good idea on the Kawi, it'd be good on the FJR also.

The line to place deposits against full MSRP + setup forms on your right the day after the GEN III is announced.

 
I'm very disappointed, though, that Yamaha isn't making the AE for 2010. If they were going to suspend production on a model, I would have suggested the old fashioned manual clutch model, but that's just me.

As for clutch pull effort, adjusting the lever so it's closer to the bar will do wonders for decreasing the effort required.
Well, considering that they had trouble clearing the AEs out of showrooms at firesale prices, I'm doubtful that would have been a wise business strategy. ;)

The problem with moving the levers in toward the bars on a second gen is that you can lose the ability to fully disengage the clutch. Reported on here by many 2nd gen owners with (small hands?) is that they experience clutch drag with the levers adjusted all the way in. It also doesn't actually change the lever effort, it just puts it into a location that your hand is better able to deal with it.
Of course, my comment about suspending the A model versus the AE was a bit tongue in cheek, but it also has some validity. I agree that AE models haven't been selling as well as A models and on-hand inventory is probably higher than anyone at Yamaha would like. I blame that on poor marketing and the natural human reaction (i.e., resistance) to change. They've apparently chosen to reduce that inventory by suspending the AE (here in the States) for MY 2010, but what if they had taken a different approach? Another way to sell Model X is to remove its competition from the market, in this case the A model. Undoubtedly, one or more of the suits at Team Y thought that would be too risky and might drive buyers to other brands, but at some point Yamaha needs to show that they're serious about the AE technology, and making it the only available model would go a long way toward doing that. It also would help get the technology closer to the tipping point where enough people start to realize that it's a huge improvement over the status quo that word starts to spread.

In the same way that people were angst-ridden over fuel injection, ABS, linked brakes, slipper clutches, and traction control, to name a few, we'll look back on this discussion some years in the future and smile as we all ride AE-type machines. Maybe not on pure sport bikes, but anything with touring in its name is a great candidate.

As for adjusting the clutch lever all the way in, I didn't experience clutch drag on my 2005 and I don't follow the forum close enough to know if others reported such a problem. However, it's not an all or nothing deal. There are 5 positions available, so I'm confident that a suitable compromise can be found. Regarding clutch pull effort, I have normal sized hands. Depending on brand, my glove size is Medium to Large. For someone like me, position 1 (lever farthest out) was unworkable because the friction zone was out of reach, out of my left hand's power band. Bringing the lever in (to position 5, in my case) put the clutch's friction zone squarely into my hand's power band, which reduced the perceived pull effort greatly. And in the end, perceived pull effort is the only thing that matters. You essentially said the same thing above, so although you initially disagreed with me, in the end you agreed with me. :unsure: :)
DBX, I understand your thinking, and I'd agree if we were talking about cars not bikes. I've driven stick cars all my life. When they came out with the new paddle shifter automatics and "click" shifter automatic sticks, I thought for the first time I could live with an automatic. I feel safer driving a stick because in a car, I like the extra mili-second of response time I get when I take my foot off the gas and the manual trans instantly applies engine braking while I'm transferring my foot to the brake pedal, where an automatic just coasts. And there's no way I'm going to achieve spirited driving in mountain twisties with an automatic and no engine braking. But the new 5 and 6 (and 7) speed automatics make it both possible and practical to use an automatic as if it were a stick. Only problem for me is they only offer them on the high-end cars. If I could get a basic Mazda 3 with a 6 speed paddle-shifter, I get one tomorrow.

But a bike is a different animal, I think we'd all agree. I can't imagine being in a tricky, low-speed situation on a bike, like a tight parking lot, or a quick u-turn on a 2-lane road, or a gravel turn-around, and not being able to feather the clutch. Sounds like a blueprint for disaster. Just can't picture an automatic bike being able to handle such stuff very confidently or elegantly. Maybe if you could give it some throttle while dragging the rear brake you could accomplish a similar sort of control, but wouldn't that just stall the AE FJR?

RE: the clutch lever on the Gen II's, I swapped out the clutch slave on my Gen II for a Gen I, to get a little less effort on the pull. As has been reported, that combo does, in fact, move the engagement point to the extreme end of the lever throw. I have to use the lever setting at 1 click from the furthest setting, and EVEN THEN, I have to pull the lever all the way to the bar to get into 1st gear. That, combined with the still high pull effort, means that for me, there no such thing as 2-fingered shifting. One of my biggest negatives for the FJR.

 
Use the rear brake and a little throttle. It is pretty easy to get use to doing it. I noted the FJR was stiffer than the K1200 in 2008 also when I compared them. It sounds like the Gen I swap is a good idea.

 
I tend to agree -- most (a huge percentage...) of wheeled vehicles in America are "automatics" (try to find a 'manual' car on a lot). There are generations, now, for whom a clutch (and shifting gears) is a problem -- or worse.Maybe Yamaha didn't go far-enough? Full-Automatic... :unsure:
Some AE owners ended up there because they had some kind of problem, usually health-related, but some ended up there for other reasons. I'm perfectly comfortable with a clutch but the one single thing I like best about my current FJR is the e-shift feature. If I could get that on a Model A...well then it wouldn't be a Model A, would it? :)

 
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