Clutch Slave Cylinder

[TheBlueStreak]

Well guys, I did a little research. I looked up the OEM part numbers for the clutck push rod, ball and slave cylinder for a 2005, 2008 and 2009 FJR. So what I found was that the part number for the ball has not changed. The part number for the push rod is the same on the 2008 & 2009 but different than on the 2005. The part number is different form the 2005 and 2008 BUT the SAME as on a 2005 AND 2009.

So it seems that Yamaha either was lurking our board or they finally figured out what we did years ago, i.e. put the GEN I slave cylinder on a GEN II to get easier clutch pull!!

Rob

 

[dsmack]

I hate to appear totally stupid, but you have me confused... :blink:

Is the bottom line then that in order to ease the pressure needed at the clutch lever you need the Gen 1 clutch slave cylinder AND the different "Ball"? Or what? Is the Ball a different length so the clutch engagement point distance from the grips remains the same (or hopefully, moved a bit farther from the grip)?

Inquiring minds want to know!

TIA for any additional insight.

Don (easily confused in Spokane!)

 

[Fred W]

I think this is what he meant to say:

Well guys, I did a little research. I looked up the OEM part numbers for the clutck push rod, ball and slave cylinder for a 2005, 2008 and 2009 FJR. So what I found was that the part number for the ball has not changed. The part number for the push rod is the same on the 2008 & 2009 but different than on the 2005. The part number for the slave cylinder is different form the 2005 and 2008 BUT the SAME as on a 2005 AND 2009.
So it seems that Yamaha either was lurking our board or they finally figured out what we did years ago, i.e. put the GEN I slave cylinder on a GEN II to get easier clutch pull!!

Rob

Since the rods are the same between '08 an '09 but the cylinders are different, he's saying all you need is the slave cylinder (I think)

 

[johnny80s]

I hate to appear totally stupid, but you have me confused... :blink:
Is the bottom line then that in order to ease the pressure needed at the clutch lever you need the Gen 1 clutch slave cylinder AND the different "Ball"? Or what? Is the Ball a different length so the clutch engagement point distance from the grips remains the same (or hopefully, moved a bit farther from the grip)?

Inquiring minds want to know!

TIA for any additional insight.

Don (easily confused in Spokane!)

Check this out. Clicky

I ordered mine from Gary at MonDak MotorSports today.

Edit - Yes Fred is right.

 

[TheBlueStreak]

Hi Don,

There has been alot of talk since the GEN II bikes came out of a stiff clutch lever, aka. need alot of force to squeeze the lever compared to other bikes.

The "fix" has been since 2006 to replace the slave cylinder with that of a GEN I bike, like a 2005 FJR.

Yamaha has claimed that "For 2009, the FJR1300A receives an updated clutch to reduce lever pressure for rider comfort."

I looked up what I thought are the key parts of clutch that would contribute to lever feel or force to squeeze. So I looked at the slave cylinder, ball, push rod, master cylinder, etc. So what I came up with was all these parts are the same for GEN I and GEN II except the slave cylinder. Yamaha replaced the slave cylinder on the 2009 with the same part number of a GEN I bike. Which is what this forum has said the "fix" has been since 2006.

So this is how Yamaha reduced lever pressure for rider comfort.

Know what I mean?

Rob

 

[dsmack]

Now we're on the same page!

Thanks for the clarification.

Only have one question left: After installation of the earlier style cylinder, does the distance between the grip and clutch lever change? On my 06, the clutch begins to engage at approx .25" from the grip. In other words, to get complete disengagement, it is necessary to pull the clutch lever all the way in against the grip.

I am just wondering if the clutch engagement point will change, and if so, will it be for better or worse? :glare:

Thanks for humoring me!

Don

 

[SkooterG]

Proof that even Yamaha acknowledges that Gen I FJRs are superior to Gen IIs.

:****:

 

[RadioHowie]

Proof that even Yamaha acknowledges that Gen I FJRs are superior to Gen IIs.
:****:

Gotta hand it to ya, Skoot....in the miraculously few times you're right, you are 1000% right.

 

[TheBlueStreak]

Don,

From what I have been told by other's on this forum about this fix.....Yes, the friction point is a bit closer to the handlebar than before. changing the setting on the lever from 5 to 3 seem's to back it off from the handlebar enough that it's comfortable. It is a very noticable difference in squeeze force required to disengage the clutch AND it's much smoother re-engaging as well.

Not sure what the engagement point is for any 2009's but maybe someone can let us know on this thread??

Rob

 

[dsmack]

Rob ~

Thanks for the additional explanation. I have an additional problem with my used 06, in that the original owner installed a set of chrome and black grips (Akropovic?) which are larger diameter than stock, adding to the problem of the engagement point being close to the grip.

The grips frankly look out of place on the Feej and are not particularly comfortable, so they will be going away soon. Then I'll think about changing out the slave cylinder to ease the force required. I was surprised at the stiff clutch when I got the bike, having been on an old Kawa 750 Zephyr with a cable actuated clutch which was a little on the stiff side itself... it is a piece-o-cake compared to the Feej!

From old threads on the board, seems like the BMW sport grips might be a good choice, and while I'm dinking around will probably go ahead and install a G2 throttle cam assy at the same time. Might as well kill as many birds with one stone as possible, eh? (PETA please disregard that last statement ).

Thanks for the info.

Don

 

[TheBlueStreak]

Hi Don,

You may want to consider heated grips since you will be changing the grips anyway! I see that you are in WA state so the heated grips may be a nice feature. You can go with the Yamaha OEM accessory or other brands grips like Honda or BMW or aftermarket. I have the Yamaha OEM heated grips and they work GREAT! Heated grips allow you to use a lighter weight glove for better feels of the controls. Heavy cold weather gloves tend to be bulky for insulating purposes which make you loose control feel. Just my 2 cents!.

I will report on the turnout of the new slave in a coupl of months which is when I plan on changing it. I must say that this bike is the stiffest clutch compared to the other 7 bikes I have owned.

Have fun!

Rob

 

[dsmack]

I agree about the stiffness of the darn clutch... I got in my first meaningful ride of the season this past weekend when my son rode over from Seattle and we had a chance to hit a few of the local twisties. Did about 4 hours all told, and my hands were stiff for two days afterward!

Can't entirely blame the Feejr's clutch, as I do have beginning arthritis in certain of my fingers on each hand, but an easier clutch pull would definitely help.

Thanks for your input!

Don

 

[Bokerfork]

With apologies to those of you with arthritis, I say that if you think the Gen II has a stiff clutch, you either haven't been riding long, or you need to grow a pair. This goes for those of you who constantly complain about top heaviness. Fer Chrissakes, where have all the men gone? :angry2:

 

[RadioHowie]

Fer Chrissakes, where have all the men gone? :angry2:

To the arthritis doctors. :rofl:

 

[millride]

I had an 03 and the clutch engagement was right at the end of the release of the lever, so on my 07 I wanted the same. I purchased the gen1 slave and put it on the 07, engagement was right off the handgrip so I have to believe that the pushrod has to be different.

I was going to take the 03 apart and check the length of the pushrod but I sold the bike before I could do it so in the box went the useless gen1 slave cylinder, bummer!

The cylinder bore is different on the two as you can see when you are holding them but I didn't feel any extra or less effort ymmv!

The feel of the 03 was great and that tranny just snicked through the gears without ever making the wifes head move at all, the 07, with its goofy fueling differences which make for jerky shifts, make me look like a rookie and the wife looks like a bobblehead at times :lol:

 

[Fred W]

I have a feeling that millride is correct, that there are (at least) two things about the second gen clucthes that are different. And the part number search done by BlueStreak seems to confirm this.

The effort to disengage the clutch is effected by the smaller diameter slave cylinder. The reason for the change to a smaller cylinder was most likely to get a longer stroke of the slave, probably for the YCCS bikes.

Then, to accommodate that longer stroke they changed (shortened) the pushrod, which is why the clutch engagement point on the non-YCCS bikes is too close to the grip. Putting a 1st gen slave on (larger bore shorter stroke) should move that engagement point even closer to the grip, in theory. The solution may be to also replace the pushrod with one from a 1st gen.

The only thing we don't (yet) know is if the other internal clutch parts changed significantly, making the 1st gen pushrod unusable. In any case, what you'd want to be able to do is to extend the pushrod a little to move that engagement point out.

 

[TheBlueStreak]

Hi,

First off, I have owned 7 other bikes, been riding consistently for over 25 years and I'm a MSF Instructor. So bokerfork, please grow up! If you're looking for where all the men have gone start with yourself.

Anyway for the rest of you gentlemen, some more detail about the part numbers:

2005 -

Rod: 5JW-16357-00-00

Slave: 5JW-16381-00-00

2008 -

Both A & AE Rod: 5JW-16357-00-00

Both A & AE Slave: 2D2-16381-00-00

2009 -

Both A & AE Rod: 5JW-16357-00-00

FJRA Slave: 5JW-16381-00-00

FJRAE Slave: 2D2-16381-00-00

So we can see from above that the rod for the 2008 A & AE and 2009 A & AE is the same. The slave for the 2008 A & AE and 2009 AE are the same. The slave for the 2009A is changed to the 2005 so all Yamaha did was change the slave on the 2009 to the 2005 one. When Yamaha say they improved clutch feel on the 2009 they just changed the slave and not the rod. I would think that 2008 owner just needs to change the slave to a GENI, like Yamahe did for the improved feel.

When I went to the MC show, I did notice that the clutch pull for a 2009A was easier.

 

[RadioHowie]

Perhaps the difference in engagement point on Gen IIs retrofitted with Gen I clutch slaves has nothing to do with the pushrod, but with the piston in the slave cylinder itself?

TheBlueStreak's research indicates the cluth rod is the same part number. The difference in engagement point logically falls to the engagement point between the cylinder piston and the clutch rod.

Perhaps the piston is concave, or possibly recessed, on a Gen I, as compared to a Gen II, which would effectively shorten the "stroke" of the piston in the cylinder?

Someone is gonna have to do a side-by-side to figure this one out, I think.

 

[SLK50]

Perhaps the difference in engagement point on Gen IIs retrofitted with Gen I clutch slaves has nothing to do with the pushrod, but with the piston in the slave cylinder itself?
TheBlueStreak's research indicates the cluth rod is the same part number. The difference in engagement point logically falls to the engagement point between the cylinder piston and the clutch rod.

Perhaps the piston is concave, or possibly recessed, on a Gen I, as compared to a Gen II, which would effectively shorten the "stroke" of the piston in the cylinder?

Someone is gonna have to do a side-by-side to figure this one out, I think.

Hydraulic systems, like brakes, are self-adjusting. The piston to rod engagement point is "0" once the system is "pumped up".