Commercial Pilots

[PTINSTRUCTOR]

I teach the FFDO program. Some of you know me as the balded headed instructor. Some of you have not gone through the program.

However,if any of you ride FJRs or any other sport touring motorcycle, let me know. It would be fun to hear from "old" students, even if one of the other instructors taught you (George, Jim, Mike, Al, Dexter or any other). And, it would be fun to hear from those planning to go through the program (although understand that limited info, about the program, would be available). Maybe set up a ride or just exchange FJR/Sport Touring stories.

My wife (she rides an FJR also) and I are planning a small trip around Memorial Day. Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona and home (Albuquerque). If would be fun to see some of you again. We do have some committments along the way, like Russel Seats rebuilds, but mostly just riding.

Kern

 

[993_Pilot]

Just tell me you didn't instruct the USAir pilot, that had the "accidental discharge" the other day. . . or at least assure us that he wasn't your star pupil. I would love to hear the CVR tapes from that!

 

[PTINSTRUCTOR]

Yeah, really unfortunate. But, like ALL law enforcement agencies, ADs happen. Sometimes it only takes a small action to make a really big mistake (but you are fully aware of that...being a member of the crash club).

With all the pilots that are armed, and have been for about 5 years, they have an outstanding safety record. So,I would still rather fly with an armed pilot.

 

[993_Pilot]

Yeah, really unfortunate. But, like ALL law enforcement agencies, ADs happen. Sometimes it only takes a small action to make a really big mistake (but you are fully aware of that...being a member of the crash club).
With all the pilots that are armed, and have been for about 5 years, they have an outstanding safety record. So,I would still rather fly with an armed pilot.

I am a former LEO, now a Pilot and CCW holder too. Unfortunately, I fly corporate, so the FFDO progam does not apply to us. I agree, that I would rather the pilots be armed, but I doubt there was a good excuse for the AD. They do happen, but usually when handling the gun, and he probably should not have been handling it in flight, unless there was a good reason to. Judging by the location of exit hole on the left side of the fuselage, above the tiller wheel, I am guessing he had the gun out of his holster. Another guess, but that's probably a big "No-No" according to the rules. The Co-Pilots account and the CVR will either exonerate him, or his career will be over. Only time will tell, if this doesn't get quietly swept under the rug. I hope that it wasn't related to him "mis-handling" the weapon, but either way, it is a strike against the program. Most unfortunate indeed !

 

[PTINSTRUCTOR]

Yeah, really unfortunate. But, like ALL law enforcement agencies, ADs happen. Sometimes it only takes a small action to make a really big mistake (but you are fully aware of that...being a member of the crash club).
With all the pilots that are armed, and have been for about 5 years, they have an outstanding safety record. So,I would still rather fly with an armed pilot.

I am a former LEO, now a Pilot and CCW holder too. Unfortunately, I fly corporate, so the FFDO progam does not apply to us. I agree, that I would rather the pilots be armed, but I doubt there was a good excuse for the AD. They do happen, but usually when handling the gun, and he probably should not have been handling it in flight, unless there was a good reason to. Judging by the location of exit hole on the left side of the fuselage, above the tiller wheel, I am guessing he had the gun out of his holster. Another guess, but that's probably a big "No-No" according to the rules. The Co-Pilots account and the CVR will either exonerate him, or his career will be over. Only time will tell, if this doesn't get quietly swept under the rug. I hope that it wasn't related to him "mis-handling" the weapon, but either way, it is a strike against the program. Most unfortunate indeed !

As you probably know, they no longer carry the "black box". Now they have a level 1 holster, with a hole in it, so they can put a lock (padlock) through the hole and through the gun behind the trigger and in front of the grip. This keeps the weapon from discharging. My theory...IMHO...is that the pilot had to go to the bathroom or had some other urgent thing to do outside the flight deck. The pilot then pulled the weapon/holster off, possilbly breaking the snap and allowing the weapon to dislodge slightly from the holster. The pilot then put the lock through the hole to secure it. However, because the weapon was slightly dislodged, the lock went in front of the trigger. All it would then take is a slight bump/push on the butt of the weapon and the trigger would fire the weapon (the holsters are bottomless) Only conjecture.

ADs are never "OK" but they happen. I do feel sorry for him/her, but it will be a good lesson for the rest of the FFDOs. You can never be too careful with a firearm.

Your idea about not handling a weapon, in flight, is a very good one. Unfortunately, whenever they leave the flight deck, to go to the bathroom, they have to disarm themselves and lock the weapon. Maybe this will change that SOP.

Take care..........

 

[993_Pilot]

I am not familiar with the details of their SOP's, or the limitations about what is OK to discuss publicly, but we probably shouldn't give any more away here. Your theory sounds like a good viable one. Hopefully this lesson will serve to strengthen the program, and not harm it.

 

[Richouse]

I just did the psyc. eval this morning, so I hope to be seeing you in training in a couple of months... If it was closer I would ride my FJR to training but coming from Memphis TN its a bit far and I don't have the time for that kind of ride...

 

[PTINSTRUCTOR]

I just did the psyc. eval this morning, so I hope to be seeing you in training in a couple of months... If it was closer I would ride my FJR to training but coming from Memphis TN its a bit far and I don't have the time for that kind of ride...

Got a shed (garage) in back of my house, in Artesia, if you want to park it out of the elements. 'Course it is going to be hot...that is a given.

Kern

 

[SMC]

Yeah, really unfortunate. But, like ALL law enforcement agencies, ADs happen. Sometimes it only takes a small action to make a really big mistake (but you are fully aware of that...being a member of the crash club).
With all the pilots that are armed, and have been for about 5 years, they have an outstanding safety record. So,I would still rather fly with an armed pilot.

I am a former LEO, now a Pilot and CCW holder too. Unfortunately, I fly corporate, so the FFDO progam does not apply to us. I agree, that I would rather the pilots be armed, but I doubt there was a good excuse for the AD. They do happen, but usually when handling the gun, and he probably should not have been handling it in flight, unless there was a good reason to. Judging by the location of exit hole on the left side of the fuselage, above the tiller wheel, I am guessing he had the gun out of his holster. Another guess, but that's probably a big "No-No" according to the rules. The Co-Pilots account and the CVR will either exonerate him, or his career will be over. Only time will tell, if this doesn't get quietly swept under the rug. I hope that it wasn't related to him "mis-handling" the weapon, but either way, it is a strike against the program. Most unfortunate indeed !

As you probably know, they no longer carry the "black box". Now they have a level 1 holster, with a hole in it, so they can put a lock (padlock) through the hole and through the gun behind the trigger and in front of the grip. This keeps the weapon from discharging. My theory...IMHO...is that the pilot had to go to the bathroom or had some other urgent thing to do outside the flight deck. The pilot then pulled the weapon/holster off, possilbly breaking the snap and allowing the weapon to dislodge slightly from the holster. The pilot then put the lock through the hole to secure it. However, because the weapon was slightly dislodged, the lock went in front of the trigger. All it would then take is a slight bump/push on the butt of the weapon and the trigger would fire the weapon (the holsters are bottomless) Only conjecture.

ADs are never "OK" but they happen. I do feel sorry for him/her, but it will be a good lesson for the rest of the FFDOs. You can never be too careful with a firearm.

Your idea about not handling a weapon, in flight, is a very good one. Unfortunately, whenever they leave the flight deck, to go to the bathroom, they have to disarm themselves and lock the weapon. Maybe this will change that SOP.

Take care..........

:blink: Hello Gentlemen,
I'll harken back to WWII (lose lips sink ships) and just say let's not hand over any information that would be of interest or use to parties that don't have a need to know about what kind of weapons and how they are carried. Yea, I may be overly cautious on this one, but I as a flight crew member I don't want to worry about undesirables gleaning information that would be useful to them...however minute and trivial it may be to some.

 

[993_Pilot]

I am not familiar with the details of their SOP's, or the limitations about what is OK to discuss publicly, but we probably shouldn't give any more away here. Your theory sounds like a good viable one. Hopefully this lesson will serve to strengthen the program, and not harm it.

:blink: Hello Gentlemen,
I'll harken back to WWII (lose lips sink ships) and just say let's not hand over any information that would be of interest or use to parties that don't have a need to know about what kind of weapons and how they are carried. Yea, I may be overly cautious on this one, but I as a flight crew member I don't want to worry about undesirables gleaning information that would be useful to them...however minute and trivial it may be to some.

. . . and hence my earlier post quoted above. If the mods want to delete this thread in the interest of security, it won't hurt my feelings, and I am sure PTInstructor would probably agree

 

[rangerk9]

I am not familiar with the details of their SOP's, or the limitations about what is OK to discuss publicly, but we probably shouldn't give any more away here. Your theory sounds like a good viable one. Hopefully this lesson will serve to strengthen the program, and not harm it.

:blink: Hello Gentlemen,
I'll harken back to WWII (lose lips sink ships) and just say let's not hand over any information that would be of interest or use to parties that don't have a need to know about what kind of weapons and how they are carried. Yea, I may be overly cautious on this one, but I as a flight crew member I don't want to worry about undesirables gleaning information that would be useful to them...however minute and trivial it may be to some.

. . . and hence my earlier post quoted above. If the mods want to delete this thread in the interest of security, it won't hurt my feelings, and I am sure PTInstructor would probably agree

I concur and recommend a deletion as well.

Rex

 

[SPORT]

I teach the FFDO program. Some of you know me as the balded headed instructor. Some of you have not gone through the program.
However,if any of you ride FJRs or any other sport touring motorcycle, let me know. It would be fun to hear from "old" students, even if one of the other instructors taught you (George, Jim, Mike, Al, Dexter or any other). And, it would be fun to hear from those planning to go through the program (although understand that limited info, about the program, would be available). Maybe set up a ride or just exchange FJR/Sport Touring stories.

My wife (she rides an FJR also) and I are planning a small trip around Memorial Day. Colorado, Wyoming, Montana, Idaho, Washington, Oregon, California, Arizona and home (Albuquerque). If would be fun to see some of you again. We do have some committments along the way, like Russel Seats rebuilds, but mostly just riding.

Kern

Hey PTINSTRUCTOR,

Quick question.

My wife is an FO for Piedmont (USAirways) and we briefly discussed the FFDO program. She's under the impression that many unions are fighting the requirements required by the Airline Co, due to unsafe practices. A case and point is the recent pilot who discharges their weapon in the cabin (I believe while on approach?). What are your thoughts?