Conclusions

[Spinner]

As an FJR newbie and a "waiter", I've been reading the posts on this site for a month or so. As a result, I became somewhat concerned that I would be one of the unfortunate 15% of FJR owners to get a "ticker".

After having spent the last hour reading Warchild's Ticking Achives #1 and #2, I have come to the following conclusions;

A.) This dead horse has been beaten to the max

B.) Every potential cause and fix has been discussed

C.) If Yamaha has not resolved the issue with the 2006 bikes, and mine develops a

the dreaded tick, it's getting traded ASAP. I was considering buying the extended

warrantee but have since changed my mind. I don't think that I want to deal with

trying to find a competent FJR mechanic, the down time, and hoping that the

problem doesn't recurr.

My hat is off to Warchild and the other Forum members for the quaility and quantity of research that they have done on this subject in an effort to help those already afflicted. One would hope that Yamaha is paying attention and will use the information generated by Warchild and others on this site to correct the problem once and for all. Having said that, I'm not counting on that happening.

So, that's my plan and I'm sticking to it. Keep my fingers crossed, hope for the best, and bail if I'm one of the unlucky ones.

 

[afterburn]

How in the world do you come to a 15% number? The people that don't have issues you typically don't hear about.

 

[gRed04]

The people that don't have issues you typically don't hear about.

This is a interesting point. One that is used on any type of forum automotive related that I visit.

The idea is that people that are happy and problem free don't need to seek out others for questions or support.

I would certainly say that there are a certain percentage of owners that do indeed only look to a forum when those issues happen. However, what about all the people that don't have the "ticking" issue and frequent forums?

What about people that have the "ticking" issue and don't know it, don't frequent forums?

What about people that have the "ticking" issue and try to resolve it without ever looking for forums to discuss ( dealer says it is ok so must be )?

Unless some non-affliated person/group starts to put together a independent list of confirmed ( by whatever verification ) problem bikes I don't think we will ever really know.

I don't think you can count Yamaha or the Dealer network as ever giving accurate statistics.

 

[afterburn]

I'm thinking if it was indeed 15%, there would have been a recall. Cause 15% is an awful lot of bikes.

 

[Ignacio]

I became somewhat concerned that I would be one of the unfortunate 15% of FJR owners to get a "ticker".
After having spent the last hour reading Warchild's Ticking Achives #1 and #2,....

I would suggest that even the super-well documented ticking archives are even getting dated. There's been a lot of anecdotal observation that the '05's had less tickers than the '04/'03 and even more educated guesses that the '06 will hopefully be less prone to tick with valve seal design changes. The valvetrain is getting more reliable as time goes...so I think the 1 in 15 might still be pessimistic.

Not sure about your logic on NOT purchasing an extended warranty. Hey, I'm the last person in the world to be suckered into the overhyped extended warranties. But, for $400 on a $15,000+ bike for 4 years backed by the factory and not a third-party? That's cheap insurance.

 

[MCRIDER007]

I'm thinking if it was indeed 15%, there would have been a recall. Cause 15% is an awful lot of bikes.

I agree. As of May 05 there were less than 40 documented tickers out of the almost 7,000 FJRs sold in the US. At that time, most of the tickers were from the 4200 03/04 models. Since then, a number, but not a great number, of the 05 models have started ticking but it appears that the 05 model has less tickers but may develop the tick at higher mileages. Only Yamaha knows how many documented tickers there really are but it appears to be no more than 1-2 percent at this time.

 

[oilyslick]

Just a thought...Have there been any changes to the affected parts, ie valve guides, oil passages in the castings, seals, etc? If Yamaha has made changes, then that would be confirmation of a problem. Have the part #'s changed in the areas of the engine mentioned above?

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Spinner  Posted on Jan 24 2006, 08:29 AM<snip>C.) If Yamaha has not resolved the issue with the 2006 bikes, and mine develops a

the dreaded tick, it's getting traded ASAP.

And who could blame you? Even the, much vaunted, leader of this board did that -- and, his bike was done by the one of the (supposedly) knowledgeable shops. As posted elsewhere on this board, posters have little faith in and don't want to pay for service at Yamaha dealers. Some say they prefer to do their own work because of incapable (and, gouging) dealers. Why even get involved in the first place?

MCRIDER007  Posted on Jan 24 2006, 12:46 PM<snip>As of May 05 there were less than 40 documented tickers out of the almost 7,000 FJRs sold in the US. Only Yamaha knows.....

MCRIDER, thanks for the facts. One would wonder, tho, how many of that number (a number much larger than those involved in and reporting to this board) are "blissfully ignorant" of anything? Ultimately, they'll know -- when the oil comes dripping out of the end of their muffler (like in the v.telling pic from the "tick archives").

 

[fjr]

And to add to what Iggy said...I never buy extended warrantys either but for $400 you also get Travel and Recreation Interruption Protection(at least a free drink or two on Yamaha), towing coverage and transferable coverage. I'm down for that with unlimited miles.

 

[Spinner]

And to add to what Iggy said...I never buy extended warrantys either but for $400 you also get Travel and Recreation Interruption Protection(at least a free drink or two on Yamaha), towing coverage and transferable coverage. I'm down for that with unlimited miles.

O.K. You guys have got me thinking about the extended warrantee coverage again. I didn't realize that it is only $400, which seems reasonable. Even if I purchase the warrantee, I'm still going to trade my '06 at the first hint of a tick. If I like the bike half as much as I think I will, I would consider playing the odds and trading the ticker for another new FJR.

 

[Spinner]

I'm thinking if it was indeed 15%, there would have been a recall. Cause 15% is an awful lot of bikes.

I agree. As of May 05 there were less than 40 documented tickers out of the almost 7,000 FJRs sold in the US. At that time, most of the tickers were from the 4200 03/04 models. Since then, a number, but not a great number, of the 05 models have started ticking but it appears that the 05 model has less tickers but may develop the tick at higher mileages. Only Yamaha knows how many documented tickers there really are but it appears to be no more than 1-2 percent at this time.

I read Tick Achives #1 and #2 just this morning, and I'm sure the numbers that were cited at that time were one in seven or 15%. I'm going to take another look at the Archives to find out where those numbers came from...

 

[MCRIDER007]

MCRIDER, thanks for the facts. One would wonder, tho, how many of that number (a number much larger than those involved in and reporting to this board) are "blissfully ignorant" of anything? Ultimately, they'll know -- when the oil comes dripping out of the end of their muffler (like in the v.telling pic from the "tick archives").

I don't want to say anything that implies that I think the "tick" is not a serious issue but it does not appear to be as "frequent" of an issue as it appeared a year ago. The 7,000 number I quoted earlier was the number of FJRs sold in the US through the first 05 production run, I think there were another 2,500 were sold during the second production run, bringing the total to date in the US to around 9,500.

Yes, there has to be many owners that are "blissfully ignorant" of anything and I would suspect that there are a number of 05 models that will be tickers once they get some miles on them, but the total tickers to date, at least based on all the polls that have been attempted, seems to be less than 1 percent. If that number is accurate, and since most of the 03/04 models should have enough miles on them by now to determine if they are tickers, I would think that the total tickers sold to date would not be more than 2 percent. Maybe that is wishful thinking on my part but it also appears the reason that a lot of Yamaha dealers are unaware of the problem is because they have not sold a ticker. My dealer has sold 25 FJRs and not sold a ticker and the last time I was at Sunnyside Yamaha they had sold 50 FJRs and only had one ticker -- which has been very well documented. Sunnyside had repaired 8 tickers (as of October 05) with a couple more scheduled to be fixed, but with the one exception, all had been sold by other dealers.

I think the tick is something to be concerned about, but as long as Yamaha is fixing them, whether in warranty or not, it shouldn't effect a purchase decision, or whether to keep a fixed FJR ticker if everything else is good. I bought an extended warranty but it was more to protect myself myself against problems with the FI system than the tick.

 

[Spinner]

How in the world do you come to a 15% number? The people that don't have issues you typically don't hear about.

The source of those numbers is Warchild's post in his Ticking Archives #2, 9/27/04.

 

[slapnpop]

Of the ~75-80 bikes at last year's EOM, mine was one of 4-5 tickers there that I heard.

 

[Windjammer]

@ Spinner:

As others have already stated, the only real "statistics" on the actual number of tickers out there consists of mostly guesswork. Look at the variety of numbers in this thread alone, anywhere from 1% on up to 15%. Trying to figure the REAL percentage is probably impossible.

The real trouble (if you can call it that) with owning an FJR is the quantity and quality of really kickass farkles out there. It's difficult to resist the temptation to customize your bike, especially when it's made easier and more attractive by reading this board.

So imagine falling in love with your '06, farkling 'til your dreams come true, and then it starts ticking (I truly hope this never happens to you). Will you really find it so easy to kick your personalized baby down the road, even if you trade for another FJR? My '05 hasn't ticked yet, but I've had the same thoughts as you on this issue.

In the end, before buying my bike, I decided to get the 4 year YES, meaning the bike has 5 years of protection when you add in the factory warranty. If it ticks, I'll let them fix it. If it runs good after that, I'll keep riding it. If not, well who knows, by that time Yamaha might have replaced the FJR with a different model, or a competitor might have a bike that offers better value for the dollar. I'll make that decision if and when the time comes.

 

[jestal]

Just a thought...Have there been any changes to the affected parts, ie valve guides, oil passages in the castings, seals, etc? If Yamaha has made changes, then that would be confirmation of a problem. Have the part #'s changed in the areas of the engine mentioned above?

There was a report that the valve stem seals were changed for 2006 to allow more oil down the valve guide to eliminate the problem. The part number for the seals seems to be the same for 03-04-05 but I do not know what the part number for 06 seals are as of yet as it is not in the Yamaha parts list yet....so...does anyone know for a fact that the part number changed??

From the parts that I have seen and examined the idea of the valve guide/valve stem interface being "too dry" or starved a bit for oil makes a lot of sense. That fits the failure mode and the "random and rare" evidence of the failure. The valves I examined from a known ticker were scuffed and scored as if from lack of lubrication at initial build and/or during operation. There were no obvious dimensional or surface finish problems noted on the valve stems (as examined under a scanning electron microscope - specifically looking for chrome nodules on the surface of the stem from faulty chrome plating) that would indicate another problem.

 

[MCRIDER007]

There was a report that the valve stem seals were changed for 2006 to allow more oil down the valve guide to eliminate the problem. 
From the parts that I have seen and examined the idea of the valve guide/valve stem interface being "too dry" or starved a bit for oil makes a lot of sense.  That fits the failure mode and the "random and rare" evidence of the failure. 

Jestal, from everything I have read about the tickers, the "failures" seem to be predominantly on the #1 cylinder rather than being random on all 4 cylinders. If the valve stem seals are the cause of the failures, is there any logical reason that the valve guides on the #1 cylinder are the most likely to fail?

 

[Bounce]

ya! jestal's back!!!

 

[JimLor]

+1!