Confirming my Valve Lash Check Research

[radiummadman]

Hey Radiummadman, I keep this link to FJR fiche at Partshark https://www.partshark.com/fiche_select2.asp?category=Motorcycles&make=Yamaha&year=2005&fveh=18060&x=83&y=28
Comes in pretty handy sometimes for pn's and seeing how stuff goes together.

Thanks for the info, I will bookmark the site. My problem is I can't find **** when I am looking for it.

As an example, where ??? do you think you find the patr #'s etc. for the reflectors that are on the

front forks ??? Forks, brakes, or front end ?? NOT EVEN, listed under electrical !!!!!!!!!!!!

IF that **** is electrical I am a BUDDHIST MONK !!!!!!

I assume it is a way for them **** bastards to get even with us for nuking them in 1945.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

Chiefblueman thanks for that excellent and to the point explanation of valve wear and hydraulic lifters. I will add that not only do hydraulic lifters and the associated parts have trouble working properly at the RPMs turned by most motorcycle engines, they hurt high RPM performance in other ways. The weight of the system and components with the added spring strength is an added drag to the engine at high RPM. In the lower RPM range that a Harley or a truck engine usually runs, the HP loss is negligible. Once those revs start climbing too much HP is wasted moving the valve train.

 

[hppants]

BTW - thanks for the technical explanation, Chief.

Well the job is done, and it's done right. I'm proud of my accomplishment and I really appreciate the help I have received on this forum. My buddy taught me how to "feel a feeler gage". The tool he brought over is what he calls a "go or no go" set of gages. For example, on the intake side, we used a 0.006 - 0.008" gage - it actually gets thicker toward one end of the gage. Really takes the guess work out of it. I will be purchasing a set of these pronto.

As it turns out, all of my valves were well within spec. My buddy advises that at the next check, I will likely need 2 or 3 exhaust shims, and maybe 1 intake. We'll see.

I purchased my parts from Partshark, and there price and service was excellent as expected.

In addition to the 2 coolant pipe o-rings and the 1 T/S housing o-ring, I purchased:

- The coolant drain bolt brass washer.

- A timing cover gasket, but I didn't use it. I removed the plug and was able to turn the crank to check the valves. If I needed to replace a shim, I would have had to remove the timing cover.

- A timing cover plug o-ring, which I used, but didn't have to. The old one was in great shape and barely compressed.

- 4 quarts of honda pre-mix coolant (barely got into the 4th quart)

- Set of OEM NGK spark plugs. Previous set had 20K miles on them and looked a fantastic ashy brown color. Only gapped about 0.005" over. Really impressed with that. Don't forget to sqirt a little di-electric grease in the s/p boot on re-assembly. I chose not to use never-sez on the s/p threads, but I didn't really hunk down on the plugs either.

I chose to re-install the AIR system, but for the next service, I may go ahead and buy the blank plates. It should makes things much cleaner under the tank. I'll read up on it and decide later.

- I chose not to use any sealant on the cam cover gasket and it did not leak.

I'd say between the 2 days, the whole job took me about 7 hours. Next time, I can do it in much less time.

So my girl is back together and I'm ready to go. I finished about noon and decided to go fishing this afternoon. Picked up about 15 nice redfish with a friend - keeping 10 and releasing the rest. Life is good, stay thirsty, my friends.

 

[kamal]

Hey Radiummadman, I keep this link to FJR fiche at Partshark https://www.partshark.com/fiche_select2.asp?category=Motorcycles&make=Yamaha&year=2005&fveh=18060&x=83&y=28
Comes in pretty handy sometimes for pn's and seeing how stuff goes together.

Thanks for the info, I will bookmark the site. My problem is I can't find **** when I am looking for it.

As an example, where ??? do you think you find the patr #'s etc. for the reflectors that are on the

front forks ??? Forks, brakes, or front end ?? NOT EVEN, listed under electrical !!!!!!!!!!!!

IF that **** is electrical I am a BUDDHIST MONK !!!!!!

I assume it is a way for them **** bastards to get even with us for nuking them in 1945.

Don't want to hijack this thread - but.

Item 33 here: https://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/4/Make/Yamaha/YearID/45/Year/2004/ModelID/6048/Model/FJR1300/GroupID/244404/Group/ELECTRICAL_1

I took mine off, still got them somewhere? If you want them PM me and I'll look for them.

Al.

 

[SkooterG]

I assume it is a way for them **** bastards to get even with us for nuking them in 1945.

While I can appreciate you frustration with Yamaha's labeling and naming in the parts diagram I can assure you it gets easier the more you use it. But I take serious issue with your completely insensitive comment above. There is NO place for that kind of derogatory crap here. Period. Capiche?

- I chose not to use any sealant on the cam cover gasket and it did not leak.

So how do you get that freaking valve cover and gasket back on without first somehow gluing it to the cover?

 

[Queensland Ken]

So how do you get that freaking valve cover and gasket back on without first somehow gluing it to the cover?

My question exactly

Tried to install the cam cover a few times and had no success with the gasket being dislodged, trying to reinstall the cover.

 

[Bustanut joker]

I assume it is a way for them **** bastards to get even with us for nuking them in 1945.

While I can appreciate you frustration with Yamaha's labeling and naming in the parts diagram I can assure you it gets easier the more you use it. But I take serious issue with your completely insensitive comment above. There is NO place for that kind of derogatory crap here. Period. Capiche?

Oh for fuks sakes Greg get a fukin life ... It's fukin humor for shitsakes.

What the *** happened here the last few months? The over 70 woman's crocheting site has far more controversy..

 

[SkooterG]

I assume it is a way for them **** bastards to get even with us for nuking them in 1945.

While I can appreciate you frustration with Yamaha's labeling and naming in the parts diagram I can assure you it gets easier the more you use it. But I take serious issue with your completely insensitive comment above. There is NO place for that kind of derogatory crap here. Period. Capiche?

Oh for fuks sakes Greg get a fukin life ... It's fukin humor for shitsakes.

What the *** happened here the last few months? The over 70 woman's crocheting site has far more controversy..

NO. That's not humor Barry. And I pity you if you can't tell the difference. And if I do say so myself......**** you.

What has happened over the last year or so is that your ******** has poisoned this board. How's that my friend?

Now, let's get back on topic. Word. If you have anything else to say, I would be more than happy to reply by PM or email.

 

[RossKean]

Now to get back to something remotely on topic...

Yesterday, I did my second valve check in the 75,000 miles I've put on my '07. (I know its supposed to be done more often.) I bought it lightly used three years ago and it currently has 86,000 miles on the clock. I used a bit of O2 sensor-safe grey Permatex silicone to hold the gasket to the cover for re-installation. I didn't remove the right side panel or the timing cover; used Fred's suggestion to put it in 5th and rotate the rear wheel to advance the engine. Takes a bit of force to turn it over but preferable to further dissassembly. (Yes, I did remove the sparkplugs)

Not much change from the last check @ 50,000 miles. I have four intake valves that are right on the minimum (0.15mm). Two are actually a fairly tight 0.15, but a definite "go". Other intake valves were 0.16 to 0.19mm. All exhaust valves were 0.20 to 0.23mm. Called it good enough and buttoned it back up. If any had been below spec, I would have brought all the intake valves to 0.20mm but I figure that although 0.15 is the stated minimum, it is still OK and Yamaha must have some wiggle room in the specification.

One question: The shop temperature was a cool 14 °C (57 °F). Does anyone have any real-world knowledge about how ambient temperature will affect these measurements?

 

[fudgejerkin1188]

Its also worth buying 4 of the smaller o rings. If its the first time you've done the job there is a good chance you will pinch an o ring the first time you try putting the coolant pipe back in.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

1)RossKean, somewhere on this forum there is a discussion about ambient temp affecting the valve measurements. If I remember correctly, both ionbeam and Fred W (go figure!) were involved.

2)I did not "get the joke" about nuking them either. It was not funny. And I am not too sensitive about stuff, I like my off-color jokes more than most. But that was over the line. (I know, I should have just kept my mouth shut.)

3)The real question here is not about how hppants got the valve cover gasket back in place, or even anything to do with his FJR. The REAL question is: "How are you cooking those Redfish fillets and what time should we get there?"

 

[hppants]

Skooter - my cam cover came off the motor with the gasket fully attached to the cover. It did not move. Further, the cylinder head was basically spotless. In each corner, I found what amounted to about 1/10th of a booger of something black. I wiped that off with a rag and re-installed the cover. I ran the motor to 4 bars before lifting the gas tank and re-checking everything - not so much as a sweat. Guess I got lucky.

Ross - I asked my experienced buddy about ambient temperature and he stated that every book/manual he's ever written read says that the valves should be meausred when the engine is cold. I suppose if we think about the valve train temperature at running speed, in the grand scheme of things, "ambient measured between 20 and 80 degrees probably won't amount to much. But that's just an observation on my part.

I might add 1 more point. We all know this, but sometimes forget to re-check the torque on all fasteners. After I ran the motor and re-examined everything, I went over all of the bolts. The bolt that holds that AIR switch/relay thingie was finger loose. I remember going in the house to grab a beer and had forgot to tighten it. I'm sure it wouldn't have been the end of the world, but there's no point in a loose bolt flopping around under my fuel tank.

R/H - I made a crab and shrimp gumbo yesterday with some potato salad. And a fried up a handful of those redfish fillets to complement the meal. No one went hungry, trust me.

Rode the bike yesterday to the gas station, added a 1/2 can of seafoam with my fill-up, and took her for a 75 mile "spirited" run through the back country. I realize that it's B/S, but after I do a bit of maintenance on my vehicles, they always seem to run better.

Shiney side up....

 

[SkooterG]

I realize that it's B/S, but after I do a bit of maintenance on my vehicles, they always seem to run better.

Placebo effect. Happens to the best of us. Some of us just are just smart enough to realize what it is.

Thanks for the info. Sounds like your cover was already glued on. As long as it's in good shape, I would have done what you did also.

 

[MCRIDER007]

One question: The shop temperature was a cool 14 °C (57 °F). Does anyone have any real-world knowledge about how ambient temperature will affect these measurements?

One of the tech gurus on another site answered this question and also gave the expansion rates of aluminum and steel (aluminum expands/contracts at twice the rate of steel). When I did the calculation it appeared that the difference between doing a valve check at 45F vs 95F would be about .01mm.

What happens when the engine is running? The aluminum head expands more than the steel valve stems during warmup initially increasing the clearances but the combustion temperatures eventually get 3-4 times hotter than the head which decreases the clearances. The combustion chamber temperatures vary with load so its possible when running with a light load on the engine (a tailwind on level ground or a slight downhill), the clearances may actually be larger than when the engine is cold.

How tight can the clearances be without burning a valve? Its going to depend on how hard and how long at a time you put a heavy load on the engine but I have seen a lot of valve clearances that were only half the minimum with no apparent damage to the valves.

 

[Fred W]

Actually, I think all of that info was discussed in the thread right here on this forum, started by Ignacio, which redfish alluded to. I gave the expansion coefficient of the metals, but someone else pointed out the difference in temps between the alloy head and steel valves. Of course the exhaust valves get much more of that effect than the relatively cool intakes. I think the conclusion of the disciussion was it really doesn't matter that much as long as the engine isn't hot from previously running.

@Skooter - My valve cover gasket has always stayed stuck to the cover too. Maybe in '05 they were using more gasket sealer on the top during assembly? In any case, if you need to stick yours back on, you can just use pretty much and O2 safe gasket sealant and let it set up before installing the cover.

I've mentioned before that you can also get the o-rings locally, either at a good hardware store or at Home Depot. The smaller ones that you need two of are #14's (15/16" OD x 3/4" ID x 3/32 thick) and larger one for the t-stat of 1st gens is a #17 (1 1/16" OD x 7/8" ID x 3/32 thick). At the Depot they come 10 to a package for about $2. That's 5 valve checks for the smalls, 10 for the bigs.

I would hesitate to use soap to lube the o-rings only because it might make them stick. Silicone grease is a better choice. If you have any regular dielectric grease around, that works well.

@HP rather than getting the fancy inch based go-no go feelers, buy a set of metric gauges. Twice the resolution of measurement, and as Skooter said makes any re-shimming calculations easier, since the shims are also metric.

By the way, if you forget where to find Yamafitter's Most Excellent Shimming Spreadsheet © , I am hosting it for him on my web account and I keep a link to it there too. (just click the little nerd in my signature)