Coppell TX Police motorcycle Skills Competition

[SacramentoMike]

Getting a little off topic here, I noticed those bikes have the same blue lights on the back end the California LEOs do. I'm wondering if that's universal. Could some of you weigh in and tell if their state uses or doesn't use them? Thanks. (I, um, have my reasons for asking.)

If you need some of those cones to practice with, though, try following one of those highway line-painting trucks. Half a mile back or so should do it.

 

[kevinmorris22]

Hey 43Duc,

Thanks for your input on this as an instructor.

On your comments about use of both rear and front brakes (BTW I do use both brakes when I stop). But, I was wondering what impact linked brakes have on that statement. When the rear on the FJR is applied it is also activating some calipers on the front to help keep the bike balanced. You do lose stopping power with the rear only since only some of the calipers are activated on the front but I don't think it is as bad as a non-linked braking system.

Your thoughts?

I have also wondered how the linked braking affects technique like those used in the Ride Like a Pro style of riding? Since both brakes are actually being applied when just the rear brake is being activated. Ride Like a Pro teaches clutch in the grey area, rear brake applied to help balance the bike, just wondering if linked brakes affects that?

There is a civilian-oriented course, Ride Like a Pro, developed by a motor officer in Florida. He has licensed the course and you can find it being taught around the country.

After looking at the video there I can say that looks like a good intro. The concepts are similar (head/eyes, clutch throttle), but for LEO training we don't use the rear brake except on two patterns. The patterns in the video also look a little larger which allows the rider to rely a bit more on momentum to get through the turns. Once you shrink down the patterns, and put tall cones in place, the concept of clutch/throttle (friction) come into play. You can't tip a bike over as far if you're trying to avoid hitting a 24" tall cone w/ your saddlebag. This looks like a good course for civilians though.

One negative I see though is the strong emphasis on the rear brake. As you all know, braking starts at 70 / 30 (front to rear) and grows to 90-95 front to 10-5 rear as you come closer to a stop. By having the riders train to constantly be using the rear brake, they may continue to do that for normal riding out on the streets which leads to many of the "I had to lay it down" statements that follow a 50' locked-rear skid into a guard rail. After my teaching experiences I find myself always looking at other rider's hands as they come to a stop and am constantly appalled at how many riders I see coming to a stop w/ no front brake at all!

 

[43Duc]

I haven't done any research on how the FJR linked brakes work, so I can't really speak about them. However, having ridden my FJR for a few weeks now, I can tell you that because the rear brake is actuated when I use the front brakes (to a degree), I have yet to actually use my rear brake for anything other than holding the bike still at an intersection. I will say that even that amount of use is limited; since old habits die hard, I rarely take my hands off the controls at stop lights - I tend to leave the bike in gear so I can make a quick exit if I see or hear skidding cars anywhere nearby. I did tend to drag the rear brake during track days when heading into highs speed corners, but that was to avoid upsetting the suspension at high speed, but that's a different topic.

I can say that there is no way activating only the rear brake on a linked braking system will give you the proper amount of front brake to effectively stop the bike in an emergency situation... even with ABS. My opinion is that w/ linked brakes if you are going to ignore one brake, you're better off not using the rear vs. the front. Folks get weirded out about locking up a front wheel and while it can be disastrous, ABS will prevent the front from locking up. I was trained on an old Kawasaki KZ1000 w/ no ABS and crap tires. It still took quite a bit to lock up the front, however the rear locked up in an instant which made it useless and hard to control.

From my experience I can tell you that the tested cone patterns that we taught are a quite a bit easier when you can drag the rear brake through the pattern. Part of the "no brake" reasoning is to teach complete clutch/throttle control to regulate speed. When utilized properly, the rider is pretty much slipping the clutch during the entire pattern. Rarely is the clutch fully engaged. I would imagine that a class that teaches the use of rear brake is only teaching to "drag" the brake which probably puts very little braking to the front which makes it negligible. If a rider in those patterns "stabs" the rear brake in panic, then they are going to fall down or put a foot down. The key is not to panic and use the clutch/throttle to power out of the pattern and try again. Dragging the rear brake offers resistance that can give the rider confidence, I'd liken it to cornering going uphill vs. downhill - most people will say they feel better going up vs. down.

 

[HotRodZilla]

I haven't done any research on how the FJR linked brakes work, so I can't really speak about them. However, having ridden my FJR for a few weeks now, I can tell you that because the rear brake is actuated when I use the front brakes (to a degree), I have yet to actually use my rear brake for anything other than holding the bike still at an intersection. I will say that even that amount of use is limited; since old habits die hard, I rarely take my hands off the controls at stop lights - I tend to leave the bike in gear so I can make a quick exit if I see or hear skidding cars anywhere nearby. I did tend to drag the rear brake during track days when heading into highs speed corners, but that was to avoid upsetting the suspension at high speed, but that's a different topic.

I can say that there is no way activating only the rear brake on a linked braking system will give you the proper amount of front brake to effectively stop the bike in an emergency situation... even with ABS. My opinion is that w/ linked brakes if you are going to ignore one brake, you're better off not using the rear vs. the front. Folks get weirded out about locking up a front wheel and while it can be disastrous, ABS will prevent the front from locking up. I was trained on an old Kawasaki KZ1000 w/ no ABS and crap tires. It still took quite a bit to lock up the front, however the rear locked up in an instant which made it useless and hard to control.

From my experience I can tell you that the tested cone patterns that we taught are a quite a bit easier when you can drag the rear brake through the pattern. Part of the "no brake" reasoning is to teach complete clutch/throttle control to regulate speed. When utilized properly, the rider is pretty much slipping the clutch during the entire pattern. Rarely is the clutch fully engaged. I would imagine that a class that teaches the use of rear brake is only teaching to "drag" the brake which probably puts very little braking to the front which makes it negligible. If a rider in those patterns "stabs" the rear brake in panic, then they are going to fall down or put a foot down. The key is not to panic and use the clutch/throttle to power out of the pattern and try again. Dragging the rear brake offers resistance that can give the rider confidence, I'd liken it to cornering going uphill vs. downhill - most people will say they feel better going up vs. down.

The part up there in red is not correct. The rear brake actuates the front, lower, right caliper piston through a porportioning valve. Activating the front brake has no effect on the rear brake at all. How hard you jam the rear brake will determine how hard the front piston comes on. Running the bike through corners and slow speed stuff, I have never felt the front make any kind of difference.

It has been a few years since I rode on duty, but since a lot of our bike guys are friends of mine, I go on training rides with them sometimes. I've said it before; they love and hate my FJR. They love to ride it because it performs so much better than the Beemers and the Hondas. They hate it when I ride it because it smokes them in acceleration and on twisty roads. It's hard to tell the difference in the slow speed stuff because the FJR doesn't have crash bars, so I don't think any of us have ever run it through the cones as tight as the protected bikes. They don't wanna drop it, and neither do I.

For the type of slow speed riding anyone is doing on an unproteced bike, the FJR's brakes won't make any kind of real difference. I don't see the linked brake interfering, but again, it has been a while.

 

[43Duc]

Thanks for the clarification. As I said I really haven't looked into how the linked braking works on the FJR. I just ride it! I will say that the FJR out performs the BMWs by a long shot and the Honda as well in acceleration and in top speed. For some reason, the LEO specific Honda computers were set to limit the bike to 120. Apparently the customer bikes were not limited... don't know why, but I did hit that 120 ceiling a few times.

I would like to see how my FJR would handle the cone patterns as well, but I have no interest in dropping it without crash bars. For that matter, I hated dropping my police bike even w/ crash bars. It would scuff the bars and then they would rust and you know how we love clean bikes!