Cornering confidence

[rocketdoc]

Bogus, you make some very good points re handling. The other aspect that I have found is your postion on the FJR. I see a lot of FJR's have been modified with bar risers, bigger windscreens, and deeper softer seats. I have found that I get the best performance in the twisties when I am up front, on my toes and knees tucked in tight. This I believe plants the front end better and improves cornering like nothing else. If you tires don't inspire confidence, and there are a few makes out there that don't, ditch them and get on with the good times. Suspension overhauls front and rear recommended for anyone riding two up or touring much.

By the way, have a happy safe NEw Year.

 

[TheBlueStreak]

Bogus,

I do agree with what your saying. I had 2 GL1500 and 1 GL1800 and the 1800 was ALOT less effort in turns than the FJR. I think it has to do with the very wide handlebars on the wing. This gives you more leaverage to press the bar for leaning. Also the Wing's weight in low in the frame as opposed to the FJR which is top heavy. So I think that's the difference. I just think its a matter of getting used to the feel of the FJR.

Rob

 

[Stickman]

I really chuckled when I found this thread. I've been on my 2008 since May and I know EXACTLY how you feel Alexi. I've owned several bikes; naked sport, couple Harleys and ridden a few others. I bored a riding buddy to tears all season with the same refrain, "This is the hardest bike I've ever tried to get accustomed to". I have about 7500 miles on her and while it does feel better, it's far from bliss. Cornering has been the issue. I've swapped out stock tires for RoadSmarts, that helped a bit. I've tried changing riding positions and found that, indeed, moving forward and weigthing the front helps. My next step over the winter will be to try the setup thread on here. Considered the high center of gravity theory, but can't say for sure. Even considered taking an advanced riding course if I could find one that might address the issue. Otherwise I enjoy the thoroughly bike.

 

[jjsC6]

Alexi has already seen my repsonse on the Goldwing forum, but I thought it might be of interest to post it here as well....

I'm here to answer the question. I have both bikes, and have a lot of fast riding experience, including a few years of road racing bikes back in the day.
The FJR is a lot faster through the curves, as other owners of both have stated above. But there is a big difference in the riding dynamics. The GW's low center of gravity and very wide handlebars makes it easier to rotate the bike over into the curves. It doesn't make it handle better, it just means it requires less effort (as Joe pointed out above). I also think that the GW has more refined throttle response and control, making it easier to roll back into the throttle smoothly coming out of a turn.

You stated that you have not pushed your FJR hard yet - that is the real difference. Once you start pushing it harder and trusting the tires more, you'll appreciate the bike more. Which leads me to the final point. Because the FJR can be ridden much faster and leaned over much further, it can be a little disconcerting to trust the higher cornering speeds.

It's kind of like snow skiing. You have to have enough speed to make the skis do what they need to do, but it takes a little more nerve the first time to actually go fast enough to make them work.

 

[Bounce]

Some of it is the COG of the Wing v FJR. The Wing may FEEL better in a corner at first but once you start upping the speeds or complexity of the corners, you quickly run out of design envelope on the Wing and start grinding hard bits (at least a lot sooner than on the FJR). Spend some time, take some training on the Feejer, etc. Once you build up your confidence in what the FJR can do, it will outperform the Wing on any given corner given that the rider can bring the skill to the table.

 

[RAVENRIDER]

Alexi - You may be onto something. As much as I like my FJR, the GW's lower COG is indeed confidence inspiring. The first time I sat on one, I just "knew" I could throw the thing around. If Honda comes out with a GW with an adjustable windshield, I may have to looke at it.

 

[Graham Downunder]

I think you will find it has a lot to do with COG. For me top heavy bikes ( over200kg) take some time to get used to ,the subconcious feeling you are going to drop it. So one thing I found that helps is to pratice low speed manovers , repeatedly changing directions can help you "feel" more confident .Make sure everthing is set up as per previous peoples suggestions. Try riding up an incline ,stop and rolling backwards ( tricks the brain as it's a new sensation going backward).When get good you will feel better and be better for it

 

[OhioFJR1300]

I have both a GW and an FJR. The FRJ is way faster in the twisties. You have to make sure you have the right tires and set the shocks up properly. That is not so much an issue on the GW. They are very different bikes and for me, I can not have just one. The FJR is my solo bike and the GW is my 2 up bike. They are both a blast on a twisted road, get the one that makes you happy and ride it.

 

[road runner]

Alexi,

I see you have an 03. When was the last time you changed the fork oil ? I have an 07 with 16000 miles on it and I noticed (actually my friend Pete noticed) at around 15000 miles the front end got very mushy. It was so bad I thought I forgot how to ride. <_< I didn't know what was wrong so I had Pete (who is a 30 year bike tech. and has done some racing) take it for a ride and he said right away that the fork oil had broken down. So he adjusted the forks for more dampening and it's MUCH better. He rode my bike when it was new and again at 15000 and he said it felt really good when new, but at 15000 miles it felt like another bike :blink: (like jello). It also had new tires on it at 11000 miles (same brand as orig.) with plenty of miles left @15000 so it was not the tires.

My settings are very close to Jeff Ashes now, but a little more dampening. You may want to read his post and try setting yours the same as a starting point and see what it does. It's very easy to do and you can always put it back if it doesn't soot you.

I missed out on the GB on the GP Suspension, but next year I'm going for it. I'm a believer in the suspension upgrade now after seeing what just dialing it in can do. For now I'm going to change the fork oil.

Good Luck & Happy New Year

A.C.

 

[Foxhuntr]

Like several others have said - set up your suspension! You'll be scraping pegs before you know it.

 

[motochick]

My dad has a GW but he won't let me ride it

However I love the way my FJR handles. Of course there are many factors we are talking about here (1. rider, 2. tires/setup, 3. bike weight, etc.). I rented an 08 FJR before I purchased my baby and what a stinker I thought this bike was, constantly fighting against me, and then wanted to fall over when I tip it into the corner. Of course this bike was a rental and the tires were horrible and suspension was messed up.

I also used to own an 03 Connie which is similiar weight distribution as the FJR and my FJR requires much less effort for me changing directions quickly. There are positive and negatives about everything, but I think it all comes down to "feel", which is a very personal thing. The same reason some racers go fast in the rain. I like the extra weight up top because it does make it easy for me to tip in, however in the parking lot, it can be a challenge. I do like a "firm" setup to get a lot of feedback from the road, but its a balance with this big bikes because you and your passenger need some comfort.

but I still want to ride a GW

 

[DELETE-PLEASE]

Alexi,I see you have an 03. When was the last time you changed the fork oil ? I have an 07 with 16000 miles on it and I noticed (actually my friend Pete noticed) at around 15000 miles the front end got very mushy. It was so bad I thought I forgot how to ride. <_< I didn't know what was wrong so I had Pete (who is a 30 year bike tech. and has done some racing) take it for a ride and he said right away that the fork oil had broken down. So he adjusted the forks for more dampening and it's MUCH better. He rode my bike when it was new and again at 15000 and he said it felt really good when new, but at 15000 miles it felt like another bike :blink: (like jello). It also had new tires on it at 11000 miles (same brand as orig.) with plenty of miles left @15000 so it was not the tires.

Actually, I got the bike used, and I have no idea when (or even if) the last time any work such as this was done. But I'll plan on having it done when I come back from overseas. When I'm a month or two away from coming home, I'll be asking what to check out and look over. Additionally, while the tires weren't too bad and still aren't bad, there's a definite flat "stripe" down the middle since for a while I was commuting back and forth to my girlfriend's house. 200 miles each way ALL highway. So of the 3300 miles I've put on it, I'd say easily 70% of it is highway. That'll be a change though since she'll be moving closer while I'm gone. So I'll be replacing the tires when I return too.

My dad has a GW but he won't let me ride it
However I love the way my FJR handles. Of course there are many factors we are talking about here (1. rider, 2. tires/setup, 3. bike weight, etc.). I rented an 08 FJR before I purchased my baby and what a stinker I thought this bike was, constantly fighting against me, and then wanted to fall over when I tip it into the corner. Of course this bike was a rental and the tires were horrible and suspension was messed up.

I also used to own an 03 Connie which is similiar weight distribution as the FJR and my FJR requires much less effort for me changing directions quickly. There are positive and negatives about everything, but I think it all comes down to "feel", which is a very personal thing. The same reason some racers go fast in the rain. I like the extra weight up top because it does make it easy for me to tip in, however in the parking lot, it can be a challenge. I do like a "firm" setup to get a lot of feedback from the road, but its a balance with this big bikes because you and your passenger need some comfort.

but I still want to ride a GW

Yeah. Good point about the factors. I'm not perfect and have lots of time before I can consider myself a good rider in MY mind anyway. But one thing that's wierd about me (at least from various threads I've read), is that I find the FJR to be VERY easy on low speed, parking lot maneauvers. I never feel like it's gonna fall, and can pull uturns. I think this stems from me practicing them a lot when I had a cruiser (very heavy bike), and practicing a decent amount with the FJR. But I definitely see the softness in the suspension when I brake. I was debating whether to go for a progressive spring setup or something like that right when I come back, or whether to just replace the oil and seals and ride it "stock" for a while. That'll be a discussion for another time, but yeah. As far as the factors, I do have a few of them against me. I think the tires need to be replaced, I need practice and to gain skill, I need to find better quality roads, etc. But given the same, I find the goldwing easier, more confident of a bike. I think it really does stem from the wide bars, low center of gravity making it VERY easy to lean, and the weight/force really seems to keep the tires planted. More force or whatnot keeping those tires into the road.
Glad to see I'm not the first one that has found that, and even 'gladder' to find that others have found ways to improve the feel/confidence of the FJR, and that once done, it becomes just as dreamy.

Alexi

 

[Bulldog9]

Interesting thread, a couple questions for you Alexi. First I'm having a hard time following where you are, some posts makes it sound like your deployed, others like your home, others like your about to deploy..... Second, how much experience do you have as a rider and on sport bikes? I think your issue is not so much a poorly set up FJR (though bad tires and suspension settings can limit the fun), others have mentioned that the GW's lower center of gravity and wide bars make it 'easier' to ride, or feel confident on. I think it is a reflection of your riding experience and ability, not of the two bikes.

I've ridden just about every generation of GW and have always been impressed with their overall ability, Honda has done a great job with them, and they really are comfy bikes that can be ridden at moderate speeds. They are very easy to feel immediately comfortable on, but their limit is found very quickly, and just when the GW is out of its league is when the FJR is coming into its. I think this is true regardless of how the bike is set up. I think it all comes down to riders ability/confidence. I had a buddy that taught (maybe still does) the advanced MSF course, and he used to love to take an old (84-85) Gold wing and lap guys on sport bikes at the track.... Was very funny and a testament to what a GW could do, but in reality, to what a difference the rider makes.

No flame intended to you or anyone, but maybe you need to consider a GW or similar touring bike, and accept that a sport bike, or eve sport tourer is just not what you want/need/can ride well. Just a thought.

Oh, and if you are a DOD employee, sneakers are not authorized footwear.................

 

[Sir Price]

I mean, I found myself really concentrating on using that outside-inside-outside technique and found that after a little bit I was hustling into curves with a recommended speed of 35 MPH at slightly above double that. One time I entered a little too fast (I think it was around 80 - 85), but a little back brake and maintaining the lean angle kept me well within the lane. And I found myself scraping my sneakers around many curves.

All this wearing sneakers ,,,,, it must be a troll.

 

[Sir Price]

Double post

 

[Sir Price]

Like several others have said - set up your suspension! You'll be scraping pegs before you know it.

Geez I have decked the pegs regulary on my 07 two up , and never felt uneasy about it. I did touch the centre stand down once whilst well leaned over in a right hander solo , now that was a little unsettling as I didnt expect it.

Other wise the FRiJ is real easy to 'feel' its way down to touch down. I still have about 5 to 10 mm chicken strip left.

A mate on another 07 ran down some very surprised sport bike riders (at around 200KPH) on the Snowy Ride in November , their look of disbelief as the Flying Frij went past them around the outside would have been worth bottling. :yahoo:

As others have said set up the suspenders and tyres , pracvtice on the FJ and you will find the GL in your mirrors if you can see that far back.

 

[Old Bear]

Agree with the other folks re suspension set up. Also, one other point... There are radical differences between types and styles of motorcycles. It's been said (and in my albeit limited to 40 years riding) found to be true that "it's more fun to ride fast on a slow bike than slow on a fast bike". Not calling a Wing slow, BUT, relative to a FJR... :yahoo:

Anyway a good example would be a very light sporty machine which you could corner at 80+% compared to a "hot" sport bike that you could only take through the same corner at 40%. ACTUAL speed may be quite close, but on the little bike you're "haulin", while on the hot bike your "loafin"

Try a well set up RD350 and compare it to an R1 and you'll quickly see what I mean. As the other folks have said, it doesn't really matter What you ride, just that you DO ride and have fun! :yahoo:

 

[CJDMOON]

Agree with the other folks re suspension set up. Also, one other point... There are radical differences between types and styles of motorcycles. It's been said (and in my albeit limited to 40 years riding) found to be true that "it's more fun to ride fast on a slow bike than slow on a fast bike". Not calling a Wing slow, BUT, relative to a FJR... :yahoo:
Anyway a good example would be a very light sporty machine which you could corner at 80+% compared to a "hot" sport bike that you could only take through the same corner at 40%. ACTUAL speed may be quite close, but on the little bike you're "haulin", while on the hot bike your "loafin"

Try a well set up RD350 and compare it to an R1 and you'll quickly see what I mean. As the other folks have said, it doesn't really matter What you ride, just that you DO ride and have fun! :yahoo:

I have always been impressed by how well some guys ride wings yet the FJR by design should perform much better. With practice, and proper set up, makes confidence in my opinion. I live about 10 miles from Ortega Highway in California so I frequent it quite a bit. Makes many roads seem easier. Then I saw this on You tube

Would you really prefer the bigger bike when going around cows?https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

 

[fjrb0]

My 2 cents worth. I had a 92 GL 1500, and could easily keep up with a buddy on an ST1300 thru Indepence Pass. Now, not saying he was the world's best, but you can ride a Wing if you want all the "stuff" up in front of you. I found I didn't like that much plastic up front. I do like the new Wing, have ridden several, and easily understand why and how people love them. Very comfy, great two up ride, easy to stay on all day and hardly know you've been on bike all day.

Having said that, there's just "something" about the FJR. Two times the speed limit + 10mph in the curves is no big deal, so long as there is no gravel in the road (have I ever told you guys I hate gravel?). The FJR is by far a better motorcycle than I am a rider, and it has pulled my fat out of the fire more than once, once I remembered to look where I wanted to go. Whoever came up with that adage nailed it perfectly, look where you want to go, the bike will go there.

Any way, if you like the GW better, by all means lay down the money and get one. I ride with a friend that has one, and it is an awesome bike, but just not for me. But then again, that's why they make all different kinds of cycles.

 

[DELETE-PLEASE]

Interesting thread, a couple questions for you Alexi. First I'm having a hard time following where you are, some posts makes it sound like your deployed, others like your home, others like your about to deploy..... Second, how much experience do you have as a rider and on sport bikes? I think your issue is not so much a poorly set up FJR (though bad tires and suspension settings can limit the fun), others have mentioned that the GW's lower center of gravity and wide bars make it 'easier' to ride, or feel confident on. I think it is a reflection of your riding experience and ability, not of the two bikes.
I've ridden just about every generation of GW and have always been impressed with their overall ability, Honda has done a great job with them, and they really are comfy bikes that can be ridden at moderate speeds. They are very easy to feel immediately comfortable on, but their limit is found very quickly, and just when the GW is out of its league is when the FJR is coming into its. I think this is true regardless of how the bike is set up. I think it all comes down to riders ability/confidence. I had a buddy that taught (maybe still does) the advanced MSF course, and he used to love to take an old (84-85) Gold wing and lap guys on sport bikes at the track.... Was very funny and a testament to what a GW could do, but in reality, to what a difference the rider makes.

No flame intended to you or anyone, but maybe you need to consider a GW or similar touring bike, and accept that a sport bike, or eve sport tourer is just not what you want/need/can ride well. Just a thought.

Oh, and if you are a DOD employee, sneakers are not authorized footwear.................

I deploy in two weeks, my FJR is already packed, so for all intensive purposes, I consider myself "deployed". Just not good with the words and when someone mistakes me for being deployed, I just don't bother clarifying cause, well, I'm right around the corner from that being true anyway.
And as for the sneaker, that was my mistake. It's a military style boot with a zip up side that has sneaker-like soles. So I was scraping my "sneakers" is not particularly true. I was scraping the rubber on the bottom of the sneakerlike boot.

I love these boots. Comfy, lasted four years, adhere to all necessary regs for DOD riding, easy to zip on and off once the laces are set, and pretty cheap. Sorry about the confusion.

I guess what it comes down to is what I probably should do is keep the FJR, and add whatever necessary that I want on there (CB radio, powerlets for heated gear, etc). With the main focus being that while the GW is a great bike and I thoroughly enjoyed riding it, once I get back from my upcoming deployment and practice practice practice, I'll find it's limits much sooner whereas the FJR will give me more to learn and has higher limits to attain.

Alexi