CRISPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Warchild]

Recall I have mentioned several times over the years that if you tend to heavily work your FJR's electrical system the max by utilizing aux lights, lot's of heated clothing, etc, etc, it usually makes for an abbreviated stator lifespan.

Here's an example of what I am referring to.......

After a long ride few things are nicer than a fine meal.
Perhaps smoked salmon wrapped in smoky bacon while quaffing a Stone Smoked Porter ale.

Yes indeed, you could smoke an old shoe and it would probably be pretty tasty.

Some things however, are not so well received in their smoky state. Some things just shouldn't be smoked.

One such item is shown below.

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Scary huh?

This is a stock stator with 90K on it from a 2005. It has seen extensive rally and general LD use with aux lights, heated gear, etc.

The OEM part is complete crap.

The cream colored parts are close to the stock color, darkened a bit. The nasty black bits are burned and actually have thick charred deposits like funky charcoal or something.

So while some of you are GB'n your way to Blingdom Come, who bought a new stator?

Putting my money where it counts,

GZ

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Although this stator was still working as advertised when it was replaced with ElectroSports outstanding EGS-130 stator, it was a good idea to have it swapped out before this George heads out on this year's Iron Butt Rally in August.

 

[painman]

That's fug ugly. What was the first symptom of failure? PM. <><

 

[beeroux]

That's fug ugly. What was the first symptom of failure? PM. <><

It hadn't failed yet, I just replaced it to have expanded ability for LD work.

MO lights, MO heat, MO Fockel-Spockel!

GZ

 

[exskibum]

Yep, I bought a new stator when Warchild blessed it as the second coming. Still need to buy a gasket and install it, but I also need a Blue Seas fused box, a Bosch relay and to have all that new electrical farkling I just bought from Jeff at Sport Bike Effects arrive. Ohhh -- and need time when WORK isn't competing so hard with other more worthy pursuits.

 

[Bounce]

wow! extra crispy. sure glad i got in on the group buy! group buys are good.

thanks again, wc for the gb effort and working through the testing of the e-s stator replacement.

 

[kaitsdad]

And all this time I thought that funky smell coming from George's bike was little animal parts dehydrating on the headers.......

:blink:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

<snip>wow! extra crispy. thanks again, wc for the gb effort and working through the testing of the e-s stator replacement.

secondedLD riders may be well advised to seek equipment fitted with the much more reliable, imo, automotive type (exited field) ND alternator -- as fitted to many other bikes (Yami's included). Too bad Yamaha couldn't have found a way to do that on the FJR.... The permanent magnet type alternator (always running at 'full-chat') is, imo again, an FJR "Achilles Heel".

And... all advice to 'husband your electrons' and 'monitor your B+' are well founded and should be heeded -- especially LD folks.

 

[FJRMGM]

what's the complaint? - it was still working after 90k miles of severe useage..

 

[beeroux]

what's the complaint? - it was still working after 90k miles of severe useage..

Interesting way of looking at this. Ahem.

The complaint would be later, say 10-20K down the side of a dark lonely road at 0300, with a smoke-checked stator.

I won't speak for you, but me? When a part is almost dead, I replace it. I'm a rebel like that.<G>

GZ

 

[vectervp1]

When a part is almost dead, I replace it. I'm a rebel like that.<G>
GZ

Huh... from the way your bike looks 90% of the time, you could have fooled me! :rofl:

 

[Windblown]

what's the complaint? - it was still working after 90k miles of severe useage..

Interesting way of looking at this. Ahem.

The complaint would be later, say 10-20K down the side of a dark lonely road at 0300, with a smoke-checked stator.

I won't speak for you, but me? When a part is almost dead, I replace it. I'm a rebel like that.<G>

GZ

Well I see the point. In all my years of slapping aux power consuming devices in automotive applications it is quite common to see cooked alternators well before the 100,000 mile mark unless the charging system is upgraded.

So the point is the system is fine as designed, for it's intended load and has some capacity to spare. It's not until one starts to add a heavy additional load to the system that things start to break down, and 90,000 and still functioning with that excess load is pretty dang impressive. Try that on an ST1100 and see how many miles ya get.

It would be great if all manufacturers built with extreme aftermarket loads in mind. But I don't see that as likely given the constant price point wars and especially not when the pencil pushers at headquarters get involved.

But hey, I'm just a FNG around here so I'll shut-up and duck now.

Peace.

 

[SkooterG]

Damn! Looks like another project I need to get done before August.

 

[skyway]

Can I get my BBQ'd stator with fries and a shake? :dribble:

Is all that black discoloration caused by hot oil being baked onto the surface?

 

[ionbeam]

Is all that black discoloration caused by hot oil being baked onto the surface?

This is what my stator looked like at 26k miles after powering amp-eater PIAA driving lights. I took the time to check my stator to confirm that the wire insulation was in fact toasting, not discoloring from oil. It's interesting that the picture of beeroux's stator shows that there are two lobes opposite the wire feed-thru that are much lighter than the others. The same is true on my stator. Those two lobes are at the bottom of the stator when it is installed. On the one hand, if the discoloration was from oil, these two lobes would be swimming in oil and should be the darkest. On the other hand, since these lobes are swimming in oil and probably remain cooler that the rest of the lobes hanging out in the air.

Note that beeroux's stator is shown upside down from mine so the stator wires run in opposite directions. Also note that the stator wires should be almost white.

 

[beeroux]

Huh... from the way your bike looks 90% of the time, you could have fooled me! :rofl:

C'mon Art, you know me. I could give a flying fig about looks, it's all about the feel, the ride. And my bike has always rode sweet.

Think of it like our favorite part of a woman.

Looks bad, feels good. :yahoo:

GZ

 

[Warchild]

It's interesting that the picture of beeroux's stator shows that there are two lobes opposite the wire feed-thru that are much lighter than the others. The same is true on my stator. Those two lobes are at the bottom of the stator when it is installed. On the one hand, if the discoloration was from oil, these two lobes would be swimming in oil and should be the darkest. On the other hand, since these lobes are swimming in oil and probably remain cooler that the rest of the lobes hanging out in the air.

I'm pretty sure the latter is the case, particularly upon shutdown of the engine.

If so, it is also consistent with the observed condition of the lobes.

 

[turbodave_98]

Huh... from the way your bike looks 90% of the time, you could have fooled me! :rofl:

C'mon Art, you know me. I could give a flying fig about looks, it's all about the feel, the ride. And my bike has always rode sweet.

Think of it like our favorite part of a woman.

Looks bad, feels good. :yahoo:

GZ

I'm with GZ in that It's function over form!!

 

[weekend rider]

Amazing what some fun extras put on your bike can cause a whole lot of problems at the wrong time and place.

All this can be elimanated very easily with some simple math and a look at the the specs as to what the altnator will put out verses the load being drawn by all those extra farkles and your standard equipment draw

Just add up all your max wattages of every piece of electrical epuipment whether being used or not and allow a 20% safety factor and than buy your correct parts need to produce that wattage you have just calculated. Results, a system that will produce enough electricity to run all your electrical components with out worry of a break down.

It is all about OHMS law watts divided by volts= amps or

amps times volts= watts

you need to know the amp draw or the amount of wattage that is going to be used size your alternator for error free ridding.

you do not want to be on the side of the road and be saying to your self who turned out da lights???

:blink: weekend rider

 

[Spedboy]

It's not only ohm's law. You forgot Maxwell's Equations, and some neccessary material science.

On top of the 'ideal' electrical issues, a good power engineer has to think about the thermal cycling, I2R losses, and aging effects on the windings. Heavily stressed stator windings can show heavy and permanent conductance losses over even short amounts of time (days) to the tune of 50% or more in copper or worse if using aluminum wire (it has a tendency to oxidize and turn into powdered Al2O3 which is an excellent insulator). Also at sustained elevated temperatures, the reluctance of the soft iron winding form gets worse with time, permanently and significantly lowering the flux linkage and consequently the efficiency of the alternator. Reluctance loss in thermally stressed cores can occur in as little as a few hundred hours of use. As the alternator pushes out less current (due to increasing armature resistance) at decreasing voltage (due to increasing armature resistance and grain reorientation reluctance loss), the regulator has to work harder to keep the load voltage stable. Much harder with a poorly maintained battery with low bulk capacitance.

Yes I've actually seen an aluminum wound armature in a generator. No I don't know what the designers were thinking. It's 12x more resistive than copper.

It's likely a 20% margin may not account for the deep conduction currents on the rectifier/regulator at heavy load. Simply upgrading you stator may not be the healthiest thing for your bike. You may need to upgrade the regulator as well. Somehow I doubt the '06 with its improved alternator has the same regulator as the older models. Anyone want to make me eat my words on that? The '05 pn is 1485116-001. You've got to consider heat-dissipation power derating in the regulator. Every 12 watts you use off the regulator requires the unit to dissipate about 2 watts as heat (assuming the RMS input voltage is a healthy 2 volts above regulator output.). At high temperatures, you have to derate the power available for accessory use, as the safe operating junction temperature of the devices in the regulator has an upper limit. Drawing high current for long periods of time may cause self-heating that can cause the device to enter either thermal shutdown, a safe mode designed in by the manufacturers, or thermal runaway and self-destruct. Looking back at the Electrosport thread, I wonder if this was the problem Ionbeam was seeing, where he'd load the PIAAs, the volts would drop to 12.5 V, hang a bit then slide away below 11.8 V. This is indicative of a regulator sourcing all the current it can to keep the system in regulation until the thermal cutoff opens the output and you start discharging the battery.



Hmm, in fact it could explain the wandering voltage problems you guys all have been seeing altogether if the regulator comes back up after it cools off a bit. It may be entering a cycle where the unit loads up to max draw, then overheats, disables itself, cools down, enables itself, heats up again at max draw, disables itself, etc, etc, etc. That would drive the voltage all over the place in a periodic manner.

I guess if I were to undertake this mod, without knowing the specs on the R/R, I'd simply install a second R/R for the high current farkles (PIAAs, Widder). I'd keep the supply rails seperate because some regulators don't like being paralleled. It'd share ground and input power. I supposed I'd use some big honking cap to control the ripple and noise.

I seem to recall Radman saying he had seen the specs on the stock Rect/Reg...