cush drive

[just roy]

Canadian FJR asked about movement of the hub in the rim and i tore my wheel off to verify that it would move around. being ignorant and having to much time on my hands i decided to remove the hub from the rim just to see what was in there. it is only held in by three small screws on the black metal ring in the picture. thats when the fun began. figuring the screws were in tight i took out my impact driver and gave each screw a few wacs watching them turn fairly easy so then i took a screw driver and as soon as i started to twist on the first screw the head popped off. the other two popped right off also. as it turns out the movement i got with the impact was just the heads turning not the screws. now though i could see the industrial locktite on the screws. so now how to get the screws out. heat is the answer it will melt the locktite but how do i get it hot without damaging the rim. no matter what i tried i couldn't get the screws hot enough the rim just kept sucking up all the heat. so off came the tire and all the seals and bearings and in to the oven it goes. 450 should do it and sure enough the first two come out fine. but on #3 the rim has cooled to much and i get a little greedy and break off the easy out. now i have a hard piece of metal stuck in the screw hole. pretty much a complete day. so on Monday i take the rim to my uncles house and we EDM the screw and easy out out of the rim. that ruins the hole so i decide to drill them all out and tap for 1/4 20. so if you are wondering whats in the hub just look at my pictures and save yourself a lot of grief.

 

[canyonman]

huh.. so thats whats in there. I'm guessin your not suppose to take that apart.

good thing it aint friday.

 

[Brodie]

Just like my Daddy used to say...


:angrysmiley: If it ain't broke - Don't Fix It
:ranting2:



Come to think of it, he used to say that a lot to me through the years. :blink:

 

[Capt. Bob]

Thank you.

You learn something new everyday.

 

[motorcycle-ed]

Canadian FJR asked about movement of the hub in the rim and i tore my wheel off to verify that it would move around. being ignorant and having to much time on my hands i decided to remove the hub from the rim just to see what was in there. it is only held in by three small screws on the black metal ring in the picture. thats when the fun began. figuring the screws were in tight i took out my impact driver and gave each screw a few wacs watching them turn fairly easy so then i took a screw driver and as soon as i started to twist on the first screw the head popped off. the other two popped right off also. as it turns out the movement i got with the impact was just the heads turning not the screws. now though i could see the industrial locktite on the screws. so now how to get the screws out. heat is the answer it will melt the locktite but how do i get it hot without damaging the rim. no matter what i tried i couldn't get the screws hot enough the rim just kept sucking up all the heat. so off came the tire and all the seals and bearings and in to the oven it goes. 450 should do it and sure enough the first two come out fine. but on #3 the rim has cooled to much and i get a little greedy and break off the easy out. now i have a hard piece of metal stuck in the screw hole. pretty much a complete day. so on Monday i take the rim to my uncles house and we EDM the screw and easy out out of the rim. that ruins the hole so i decide to drill them all out and tap for 1/4 20. so if you are wondering whats in the hub just look at my pictures and save yourself a lot of grief.

Very good post. If I had wanted to get in there to look, I would have done the same thing. Now I know the screws are locktited and I will be careful to heat them good prior to the attempt. Maybe heat applied directly to the screw boss with a miniature torch would have worked? What is your opinion of being able to remove the screws without damage to the rubber cushes from the heat? In other words, if you had to get in there, knowing what you know now, how would you have done it?

Ed, Lancaster, SC

 

[Geezer]

So, what's behind those little rubber triangles? B)

 

[El Toro]

The screws are supposed to be loctited, and the torque spec is something like 3.6 ft-lbs, so they're pretty tiny.

If its blue loctite, they should come out without an air wrench fairly easily with a small amount of patience. If the loctite is red, it will take more patience, and maybe a little heat - doesn't have to be a whole lot.... and still no air wrench should be used.

If the adhesive is something else, all bets are off... except that these screws are supposed to be removable, so unless someone used the wrong thread adhesive, it shouldn't be necessary to break them to get them out.

I'm thinking that the way to get these off initially would be W/O an air wrench. The small screws, cemented in with thread locker, just couldn't take the impulse.

 

[El Toro]

Oh yeah... if you want to see what's inside something, its never a bad idea to take a look at the parts microfiche. Many on line vendors allow you to access it. I tend to use www.mrcycles.com but there are many others.

The service manual can be handy too.... it shows that these screws are loctited, although it assumes you know how to remove them without detailed instructions.

 

[just roy]

Canadian FJR asked about movement of the hub in the rim and i tore my wheel off to verify that it would move around. being ignorant and having to much time on my hands i decided to remove the hub from the rim just to see what was in there. it is only held in by three small screws on the black metal ring in the picture. thats when the fun began. figuring the screws were in tight i took out my impact driver and gave each screw a few wacs watching them turn fairly easy so then i took a screw driver and as soon as i started to twist on the first screw the head popped off. the other two popped right off also. as it turns out the movement i got with the impact was just the heads turning not the screws. now though i could see the industrial locktite on the screws. so now how to get the screws out. heat is the answer it will melt the locktite but how do i get it hot without damaging the rim. no matter what i tried i couldn't get the screws hot enough the rim just kept sucking up all the heat. so off came the tire and all the seals and bearings and in to the oven it goes. 450 should do it and sure enough the first two come out fine. but on #3 the rim has cooled to much and i get a little greedy and break off the easy out. now i have a hard piece of metal stuck in the screw hole. pretty much a complete day. so on Monday i take the rim to my uncles house and we EDM the screw and easy out out of the rim. that ruins the hole so i decide to drill them all out and tap for 1/4 20. so if you are wondering whats in the hub just look at my pictures and save yourself a lot of grief.

Very good post. If I had wanted to get in there to look, I would have done the same thing. Now I know the screws are locktited and I will be careful to heat them good prior to the attempt. Maybe heat applied directly to the screw boss with a miniature torch would have worked? What is your opinion of being able to remove the screws without damage to the rubber cushes from the heat? In other words, if you had to get in there, knowing what you know now, how would you have done it?

Ed, Lancaster, SC

if the screws still had heads you should be able to use heat from a small headed torch to heat the heads until you could warm the whole screw. if that didn't work you would have to heat the boss destroying the paint. that wouldn't hurt the rubbers in my opinion.

 

[just roy]

The screws are supposed to be loctited, and the torque spec is something like 3.6 ft-lbs, so they're pretty tiny.
If its blue loctite, they should come out without an air wrench fairly easily with a small amount of patience. If the loctite is red, it will take more patience, and maybe a little heat - doesn't have to be a whole lot.... and still no air wrench should be used.

If the adhesive is something else, all bets are off... except that these screws are supposed to be removable, so unless someone used the wrong thread adhesive, it shouldn't be necessary to break them to get them out.

I'm thinking that the way to get these off initially would be W/O an air wrench. The small screws, cemented in with thread locker, just couldn't take the impulse.

i used a hand hammer type impact screwdriver not that it would have mattered the locktite they used was an industrial red which means permanent, only heat to remove on a screw that small.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

So, what's behind those little rubber triangles?

Just the alu hub that you see in the pic. The rubber triangles are the cush-dampers between the two sets of 'blades' on the drive-hub halves. They're replaceable, if they get too sloppy.

 

[El Toro]

i used a hand hammer type impact screwdriver not that it would have mattered the locktite they used was an industrial red which means permanent, only heat to remove on a screw that small.

I'm glad you've got it figured out anyway.

FWIW, Loctite makes a whole slew of thread locking products, in several different strengths.

It is hard to imagine that Yamaha would use one rated as "permanent" on something that is supposed to be readily servicable. But who knows.... Maybe it was the same guy who torqued the oil drain bolts.

A hand held hammer type impact wrench wouldn't be much better, as you note.

Have you ever seen a Bolger impact tool? These are no longer made, but they're really handy for this sort of job. Its described here in a note near the bottom titled Motohistory Feedback.

https://www.motohistory.net/news2004/news_may-june04.html

The Bolger tool allows you to really control both the torque and the impact at the same time, and it would be very difficult to apply enough impact to damage stuff.

I have asked Joe to make these available again, and he always says that maybe he will.... but it hasn't happened so far.

 

[Scoobyvroom]

so on Monday i take the rim to my uncles house and we EDM the screw and easy out out of the rim.

Wait you don't just brush over the fact your uncle has a EDM machine in his basement, LOL Thats pretty sweet you have acess to that, other wise you'd be pretty boned.

 

[yamaholic]

I've learned a thing or two about tough to remove bolts from dirt bikes and old cars.

My trick is to do the following:

1.) Spray with penetration oil. PB Blaster is IMO the best.

2.) Bang head of screw/bolt with metal hammer. For a small screw, about 10 taps at low force (hammer weight from 8"). This loosens surface tension of locktite or rust.

3.) Gently try to remove. No go? See #4

4.) Bang harder..hammer weight at 12". Don't get angry here and overdo it.

5.) No go? See #6

6.) Heat with pencil torch, reapply spray, bang again, heat again.

7.) Bolt should come out. If not, try to bang harder and heat longer. Again, don't be foolish and whack a metal bolt in aluminum threads with severe force. Better less force and more taps than more force and less taps!

Another thing I've learned is to bang the wrench on the initial remove attempt. For screws, the impact screwdriver works pretty good.

For bolts, get your socket/wrench on the bolt nice and straight and set the wrench to TIGHTEN (NOT LOOSEN!!). Bang on the wrench as if you wanted to tighten it. For an 8mm bolt, hit it like you mean it! Now reverse the wrench to loosen and try it manually. Again, breaks surface tension of locking compound or rust.

This seems to work really well for me.