Did I blow my fork seals?

[Scout]

On a side road, from 30mph I did a very quick stop when I realized I was about to blow through a stop sign (don't worry, nobody was behind me!). Got her stopped but thought I heard a funny sound from the front end. I wear ear plugs so wasn't sure... then I look down through the faring and saw something shiny on both the front fork dust seals. Stopped and saw that quite a bit of oil had shot out of both front forks. I never had that happen before... is it common to do that on a hard stop?

The bike is a 2007 ABS with 27k miles on it and I've never touched the forks. Seems like the dealer wants about $450 to rebuild the forks, but I'm wondering do I need that? I probably need to at least change the fork oil at this milage, right? But do I need to do the seals as well? I've looked over the process to take the forks off and do the oil change and I'm OK trying that myself I think. Seals look to be a little tougher... I've wiped down and cleaned up the oil that shot out, and when I pump the forks, there seems to be quite a bit of oil on the slider tube. Maybe I need to do that seal tool trick? Overall, there has never been a bunch of oil leaking that I've noticed before.

Looking for some advice here...

 

[HotRodZilla]

Something went wrong. Stopping hard should NOT blow your seals. Most likely, they were already done for and that stop just forced a plainly visible amount of fluid out.

As far as a rebuild, I would say your bushings are probably done at 27k. That dealer quote is crazy. A couple hundred bucks, max, is closer to right. I'm a pansy and don't do fork work because I don't know anything about them. Tons of guys here service and rebuild their own forks. So what you do will depend on what you are comfortable with. Probably any motorcycle mechanic could service your forks and replace bushings for a reasonable price.

You may want to look at the thread about the fork service that went wrong...

Good luck.

 

[beerme]

The seals on my '06 went around 30k last year, & the mech said i needed new bushings too. I don't have the tools or the know-how to take just the forks in, so it was somewhere around $300-400 for the repair. Yeah, it stung a bit, but it got done right. Happy so far at 43k.

 

[garyahouse]

Anybody gonna provide this fella with the necessary links to some of our amazing "HOW TOs" on this forum???

Gary

darksider #44

 

[not2shabby]

Might want to read this before you decide to tackle it yourself...

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/154800-fork-maintenance-failure/

I had issues with one fork binding the bottom and middle bushings when I did new seals/springs/bushings/oil and gold valves a few years ago, but not to the extent Jasen did.

 

[not2shabby]

If you do decide to tackle it, here's an excellent reference thread with pics.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/140923-fork-seal-bushing-replacement/?hl=+installing +bushings

Next time I replace my bushings/seals/oil, I'm considering leaving the middle bushings out. YMMV!

 

[kolonial72]

What,nobody else is going to say it? It's just a little ice cream?

 

[Fred W]

I seriously doubt that you blew your seals from a hard stop, and they wouldn't be worn out in just 30k miles.

What is far more likely is that your fork legs had some accumulated road spooge up higher on the inner fork leg than where the seals normally wipe and where the protector protects. When you made the hard stop you probably forced some of that spooge under the lip of the seal and voila! instant leak. Get or make a sealmate tool and clean the spooge from under your seals. They should reseal just fine and you will be out of crisis mode.

The bushings probably are shot, but there is no immediate need to get those serviced. Worn bushings only result in slightly increased stiction in the forks. They will not make them unusable and will not promote seal leakage.

 

[gixxerjasen]

That seems about $150-$200 too high for fork work to me. My initial quote (that I should have taken) was going to be $80 per fork plus parts. All the parts ordered yourself cheaply online and shipped will run you close to $80 so the dealer will likely have a bit more markup, so say $100 for them. More than $300 for parts and service seems a bit much to me.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

What,nobody else is going to say it? It's just a little ice cream?

I thought about it but I did not want a Rule 10 issue so I let it go.

I would have to agree with the others that stopping abrubtly should not be able to blow out your fork seals. I find Fred W's explanation of the fork traveling further than normal with accumulated gunk on the tubes affecting the seal.

 

[ahchiu]

I seriously doubt that you blew your seals from a hard stop, and they wouldn't be worn out in just 30k miles.
What is far more likely is that your fork legs had some accumulated road spooge up higher on the inner fork leg than where the seals normally wipe and where the protector protects. When you made the hard stop you probably forced some of that spooge under the lip of the seal and voila! instant leak. Get or make a sealmate tool and clean the spooge from under your seals. They should reseal just fine and you will be out of crisis mode.

The bushings probably are shot, but there is no immediate need to get those serviced. Worn bushings only result in slightly increased stiction in the forks. They will not make them unusable and will not promote seal leakage.

+1, PM me we can try to clear the seals with a Seal Mate, and if you wait till the spring for the PNW tech meet we can rebuild your forks with new bushings, also GP/KFG Suspension will be having a group buy this winter if your thinking of upgrading your suspension.

 

[SoCalFJR1300]

As said above try the SEALMATE.

Sometimes you have to clean then a couple times to get all the dirt.

Most fork seal leaks are not caused by defective seals, they're caused by dirt.

People spend hundreds having their seals chnaged when it's not needed.

wwwsealmate.com only $4.99

 

[Scout]

Hey, thanks everybody. I had reviewed one of the write-ups but not the other, thanks! The bushing replacement definintely sounds a little tougher than just a seal & oil change. I think I'll try the sealmate and go from there. Thanks Ahchiu, I might try that at the next tech meet!

One question remains though, it seems to ride fine, and assumming I clean the seal with the sealmate and it stops any further leaks, what about the oil level? I'm not sure how much I shot out, but I'm worried it's now down some (especially if the seal has been weak for a while now) and I'm not sure how much oil has been lost. Plus, I'm not sure the oil level is even between the two legs. How important is oil level and evenness between fork-legs if I just keep riding it?

Also, do I take it that nobody feels just an oil change would be worth it without the bushing change?

Oh, and "ice cream" and "rule 10"... what's that all about? I know I'm being slow here...

 

[Bustanut joker]

https://youtu.be/PsSqoaGqTZo

 

[Fred W]

Heh... That reminded me of Lancelot Link.

But what's up with half of the total video being spam to subscribe to that guy? Sure way to turn people off if you ask me (I know you didn't)

 

[gixxerjasen]

I think I'll try the sealmate and go from there. Thanks Ahchiu, I might try that at the next tech meet!

I had great success with my home made sealmate. That fork stopped leaking and I pulled a ton of crap out. The other fork which started leaking about 10k miles later wasn't fixed with the sealmate.

One question remains though, it seems to ride fine, and assumming I clean the seal with the sealmate and it stops any further leaks, what about the oil level? I'm not sure how much I shot out, but I'm worried it's now down some (especially if the seal has been weak for a while now) and I'm not sure how much oil has been lost. Plus, I'm not sure the oil level is even between the two legs. How important is oil level and evenness between fork-legs if I just keep riding it?

You should not ride your bike. It will explode and you will die a fiery death.

Just kidding. Hows it riding now? People do actually experiment with different weights of oil and amounts. There's an ideal and off of that ideal will change how it operates. Air compresses easier than oil. Now, if you are close to completely empty there'll be problems, but really, how's it riding and handling right now?

Also, do I take it that nobody feels just an oil change would be worth it without the bushing change?

We've seen at least one person who's had severely worn bushings at your mileage. It seems these bikes, especially the Gen II's wear out the bushings faster than others. The shop will likely pull the bushings anyway depending on the method they use to get the seals out (pressure vs slide hammer) so you should just buck up the extra for new bushings now. Based on my dismal experience, I'd say get them done sooner rather than later.

 

[Fred W]

Some thoughts:

Most of what makes your fork oil look so "dirty" isn't really dirt, but rather, it's the teflon that has worn off your bushings. Once all of the teflon has worn off the bushings you'll be left with bare bronze surfaces that are not quite as slippery, but also not as kind to the other surfaces they bear against. So, there is a risk that you might wear those out. That said, I have never heard of anyone ever wearing out their forks.

The level of oil in the fork legs is more a function of how much air that leaves than it is how much oil is in there. The oil level is chosen to leave a specific amount of compressible air in the leg, which will act as a progressive spring in assistance of the steel wire wound spring in the leg. Even in the case where we use straight wound springs, we will always have progressive springs due to the assistance of the captive air volume. That is the ONLY reason for setting the oil level.

When you have a seal that leaks it looks like a whole crap-load of oil is getting out of there as it spreads all over your brakes and wheel, but in reality it is probably surprisingly little. If you are concerned (as I was when it happened) you need to remove the offending fork leg, remove the spring, compress the fork leg fully and check / adjust the oil level. Of course if it has been more than a few miles since your last suspension oil change you'd be just as well off doing that then. But I had a leaky oil seal soon after I did a fork oil change once, so I had an opportunity to just "top up" a leaky fork after being re-sealed. I was completely astounded that the level was only a few millimeters lower considering the copious amount of oil I had seen spewed over my front end.

Everyone has varying levels of comfort, so if it makes you feel better, go ahead and adjust the level or do an oil change after fixing the leak. But keep in mind that the optimum level (and air left behind) varies greatly depending on who you talk to. It just depends on how much progressivity (is that a new word?) you want in your spring rate. That is all.

 

[Scout]

Again, thanks for the learning! I wasn't aware of the role of Air/Oil in the forks. So cleaning the seal is what I'll do for now. I say the bike is riding fine, but to be honest it feels just a little bit strange at times. We have a freeway cloverleaf onramp that is a downhill decreasing radius turn and puts a lot of pressure on the forks as you push through it. I feel the front end sort of vibrating when I go through sharpest part of the turn... not sure if it's the road or my tire or the fact I'm working the forks hard. I jacked up the front of the bike and couldn't feel any loseness in the forks or steering head. My front tire is getting a little bit of scalloping so perhaps it is causing some of it. Donno.

He...he... so that's what a rule 10 violation is!!!

 

[escapefjrtist]

<snip> Also, do I take it that nobody feels just an oil change would be worth it without the bushing change?

Changing the fork oil is definitely worth it! If you're able to clean the seals and get them dry again, fresh oil will improve the way the bike rides and feels. An alternative to Yamaha fork oil is Honda SS7, you'll need three (3) pints for both legs.

--G