Died coming off idle - 3 bars on temp guage

[BobCo]

I bought a 2008 with just over 15,000 miles, currently it has 16,800 miles. Shortly after getting it, the bike would die just coming off idle @ 3 - 4 bars on temp gauge. Other conditions: 6000 - 8000 ft elevation; ambient temperature 50 - 80 F; cold idle at 1500 rpm; idle would drop to 950 - 1100 rpm as it warmed up. What I did (threw money at it): TBS; adjusted cold idle; adjusted warm idle; checked for codes - none; read voltage and resistance of the TPS, the air pressure sensor, the temperature sensor; replaced same. The reason I replaced the sensors was that I got some readings that were out of spec, or so I thought (the probing method was suspect as was my logic). Also when I disconnected the temperature sensor it stopped dying. After each sensor change, the results would be the same - still died.

I was just about ready to give up and take it into a local dealer, but I was concerned that they would have repeated some of the stuff that I did. As a last ditch effort, I installed a PC V and the Wynn Pro induction plates. I followed their instructions, I also tapped into the temperature and speed sensor wires at the ECU connector, and I'm using the map supplied with the PC V. The result is no more dying coming off idle at any temperature, plus it just runs really smooth.

I read in one of the topics, after I had installed the PC V, that one of the members experienced something similar to what I was going through. He found that it was the crankshaft position sensor that was failing as his FJR warmed up. But he was able to get a code for it.

My questions - Would the PC V mask a component failure? Why would the PC V help when it basically does nothing at idle?

Bob

PS: I have the take off sensors that might help someone. PM me if you need any.

 

[radiummadman]

is this one of the bikes that suffers from altitude sickness due to the ECU ???? yo moma ha will fix it for free if so.

 

[mcatrophy]

is this one of the bikes that suffers from altitude sickness due to the ECU ???? yo moma ha will fix it for free if so.

Doesn't sound like altitude sickness, as far as I know that exhibited a problem when riding from one altitude to another. Starting it at any altitude would "fix" the problem until another altitude change occurred.

 

[bluesdog]

Yes, check to see if any/all recall work has been completed.

Your questions:

1. No, the PCV is unlikely to mask any error codes.

2. Depending on the map, the PCV can enrich fuelling, even right off idle, even though it does not normally activate at idle speed, whereas the stock fuelling is a bit lean coming off idle.

Your warm idle may have been a bit low for your particular bike. Almost all FJRs seem to benefit from a slightly higher idle of 1,100 -1,200 rpm.

Did you also try the Barbarian jumper mod? iirc, this sometimes has a positive effect on off-idle problems.

 

[08FJR4ME]

I had the same issues with mine when new. Brought it to the dealer under warranty and they said nothing was wrong with the bike and couldn't find anything. Well it kept stalling on me and dam near killed me a couple times while pulling out in traffic and stalling. I bought a PC III at the time and installed it. I never had the issue occur again. Problem solved with the PCIII. Never did find out what caused it but my guess is the bike was running way to lean. There were a few others that ran into the same problems. I think we just got the made on Monday bikes.

Dave

 

[BobCo]

Sorry everyone for duplicating the post. Hopefully an administrator will delete my mistake. Itchy trigger finger.

@radiummadman - the 2008 VIN is outside the the service bulletin range. It was a hope.

@bluesdog - no I did not try the Barbarian jumper mod. I probably won't since I have the PC V. I did adjust warm idle to around 1100 - 1200 rpm and had the cold idle at 1500 rpm. But at 3 bars on the temp gauge, the idle would drop to 950 or so. I could tell when the temperature hit 3 bars by the sound of the idle. Thanks for your input. By the way, looks like a sweet Rottie.

@08FJR4ME - Dave, thanks for the fine quality of your PAIR cover plates. The history with your 2008 is giving me hope that the PC V will be a permanent fix. Yeah, I almost killed my wife and I pulling out of a parking lot onto a main street in a mountain town. The money spent on the fix is well worth it.

Thanks for your ideas everyone.

Bob

 

[Donal]

Sorry everyone for duplicating the post. Hopefully an administrator will delete my mistake. Itchy trigger finger.
@radiummadman - the 2008 VIN is outside the the service bulletin range. It was a hope.

@bluesdog - no I did not try the Barbarian jumper mod. I probably won't since I have the PC V. I did adjust warm idle to around 1100 - 1200 rpm and had the cold idle at 1500 rpm. But at 3 bars on the temp gauge, the idle would drop to 950 or so. I could tell when the temperature hit 3 bars by the sound of the idle. Thanks for your input. By the way, looks like a sweet Rottie.

@08FJR4ME - Dave, thanks for the fine quality of your PAIR cover plates. The history with your 2008 is giving me hope that the PC V will be a permanent fix. Yeah, I almost killed my wife and I pulling out of a parking lot onto a main street in a mountain town. The money spent on the fix is well worth it.

Thanks for your ideas everyone.

Bob

If your idle is dropping to "950 or so" you need to adjust it with the engine fully warmed up (just like it would be if you were out riding).

Anything less than ~1100 RPM WILL cause stalling etc..........

 

[Auburn]

I had an issue with my PCV (with autotune). Turned out that the ground for the PCV (if you followed the insturctions) is grounded to the frame and came loose. Was causing an intermitten problem. The fix for me was to run the ground to the battery. No issues since.

Not sure if this is your problem, but worth a check.

 

[RaYzerman19]

If I understood it right, installing the PCV solved the issue. I'll just say I don't know why exactly, but first let's get that idle correct as Donal says. The FI system normally would do a fuel cut when you close the throttle, which means what it says, no fuel to the injectors. If idle is a bit low and being that it will be burning up residual fuel, getting leaner, that might be why it dies. A higher idle speed would tend to keep it going, and it wouldn't truly be at zero throttle.

The PCV doesn't add any fuel in that map at zero throttle, but it may have some kind of software to help the situation..... Perhaps Dynojet could answer that one.

 

[Auburn]

If I understood it right, installing the PCV solved the issue. I'll just say I don't know why exactly, but first let's get that idle correct as Donal says. The FI system normally would do a fuel cut when you close the throttle, which means what it says, no fuel to the injectors. If idle is a bit low and being that it will be burning up residual fuel, getting leaner, that might be why it dies. A higher idle speed would tend to keep it going, and it wouldn't truly be at zero throttle.The PCV doesn't add any fuel in that map at zero throttle, but it may have some kind of software to help the situation..... Perhaps Dynojet could answer that one.

On my '06, Ahchiu modifeid the map to add a little fuel at the lower rpm to eleviate the closed throttle position. I haven't looked at teh map in years because it worked very well. Once the idle is set, then maybe adjusting the tables would help. I don't know if he ever published the map that he used or not.

 

[jmgrif]

A friend had an 09 with a stalling issue. It happened in a situation where he could have been injured or killed, had a vehicle been approaching the highway intersection he was attempting to turn left on! He immediately took the bike back to the dealer and said fix it or I want my money back. He was furious about what could have happened! The dealer at first said there was nothing wrong with the bike but a more diligent mechanic who worked there decided to pop some holes in the headers to check on exhaust gases? He found two cylinders were very wrong and was able to adjust to an equal and appropriate setting. It never stalled again.

Admin: I don't know what I've done wrong but I had no intention of including the "Not found Photos"?

 

[RaYzerman19]

If I understood it right, installing the PCV solved the issue. I'll just say I don't know why exactly, but first let's get that idle correct as Donal says. The FI system normally would do a fuel cut when you close the throttle, which means what it says, no fuel to the injectors. If idle is a bit low and being that it will be burning up residual fuel, getting leaner, that might be why it dies. A higher idle speed would tend to keep it going, and it wouldn't truly be at zero throttle.The PCV doesn't add any fuel in that map at zero throttle, but it may have some kind of software to help the situation..... Perhaps Dynojet could answer that one.

On my '06, Ahchiu modifeid the map to add a little fuel at the lower rpm to eleviate the closed throttle position. I haven't looked at teh map in years because it worked very well. Once the idle is set, then maybe adjusting the tables would help. I don't know if he ever published the map that he used or not.

That map would be interesting as I would like to play with that idea myself....... if you have it, I'd like to look at it..... should be able to download off your PCV or PCIII?

 

[Bounce]

Sorry everyone for duplicating the post. Hopefully an administrator will delete my mistake. Itchy trigger finger.
Bob

To make sure we see it, use the REPORT button on the thread you want removed. It will let you send a message that all the admins will see (so first available can address the issue) and include a link so we don't have to guess which thread you're concerned about.

I agree that 950rpm is too low and will cause stalling. If it dropped to 950 at 3 bars, then that was "warm" idle and it was too low. Disregard cold idle adjustments unless it red lines.

Admin: I don't know what I've done wrong but I had no intention of including the "Not found Photos"?

It's something you have in your signature definition. Edit your signature settings.

 

[08FJR4ME]

A friend had an 09 with a stalling issue. It happened in a situation where he could have been injured or killed, had a vehicle been approaching the highway intersection he was attempting to turn left on! He immediately took the bike back to the dealer and said fix it or I want my money back. He was furious about what could have happened! The dealer at first said there was nothing wrong with the bike but a more diligent mechanic who worked there decided to pop some holes in the headers to check on exhaust gases? He found two cylinders were very wrong and was able to adjust to an equal and appropriate setting. It never stalled again.
Admin: I don't know what I've done wrong but I had no intention of including the "Not found Photos"?

So in order to correct this he must have gone into the CO settings to get it right? How did he fix it is the question?

Dave

 

[Fred W]

Anything less than ~1100 RPM WILL cause stalling etc..........

Yes, this ^^^

Set your warm idle speed up a tad. 1200 is better than 1000.

It can't hurt anything and unlike a lot of other stuff is easy and free.

 

[audiowize]

I agree, let the bike warm up to 3 bars on the temp gauge, then set the idle to 1100 RPM or so. If you still get the stalling issues, then do the Barbarian mod and make the recommended adjustment.

https://www.fjrowners.com/forums/9-fjr-technical/11249-barbarian-mod-2006-a.html

 

[BobCo]

So anyway, the PC V seemed to do the trick. I was able to adjust idle to the 1100 - 1200 rpm range. It ran well and really smooth. It didn't start one 35 degree morning. Then I left the main switch on by mistake, killed the battery and it wouldn't take a charge. Replaced the battery. Cranked fine, but it still wouldn't start. Checked the stored fault codes. They came up: 11, 12, 15, 21; Cylinder ID Sensor, Crankshaft Position Sensor, TPS, and Coolant Temperature Sensor, respectively.

I had the ECU connector off to tap the coolant temp and speed sensor wires for the PC V. I'm hoping that I did not get the connector completely seated. I will check later today. If that isn't it, is the ECU done for? What do you guys think?

 

[Donal]

I wouldn't worry about the stored faults (for now).

If it's cranking but not starting you will need to hold the throttle wide open and crank it in 10 second bursts allowing about 20 seconds between cranks (to be kind to the starter motor).

Did you notice if the cranking speed seemed faster than normal? Have a look here

 

[BobCo]

Donal - It looks as if you had it pegged. It was the fast starter syndrome. I cranked it with WOT. Eventually it started, coughed and sputtered. Finally things settled in and it ran fine. Kept it running through a couple of cooling fan cycles, then shut it off. I let it cool off to 45 F or so, and tried to start it. Bingo, it started right up. I let it idle up to operating temperature then shut it off. I will try it in the morning when the temp in my detached garage gets down to the 20s.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction,

Bob.