KrZy8 Hissy Fit - Stumbling/Dying off Idle,

[RossKean]

I mentioned fuel pump screens some time ago (along with FI inlet "baskets").  You said that you had a look inside the tank and didn't see residual epoxy or dirt residue.  A close examination of the pump screens will be interesting.  If crudded up, I would try ultrasonic cleaning and/or a more aggressive solvent.  (Just make sure the plastic parts are OK with whatever you try)

With pumps like this, partial blockage will mean that delivery volume is limited although fuel pressure might be up to specification when demand is low.  Damaged impeller or dying motor will result in low pressure - with or without demand.  A pressure check might still be worthwhile.  (You eliminated the pressure regulator when you replaced the fuel rail.)  Yamaha new complete fuel pump is $350 or so from parts places.  Not much on eBay (typically) for a decent price so it is worth seeing if there is anything obvious you can fix.  Unfortunately, Yamaha doesn't list parts for the pump (i.e. inlet screen , impeller etc).

 

[FJRay]

Don, I think this weekend I am getting  large pile of FJR parts. If there is a fuel pump assy in the pile it's  yours.

 

[dcarver]

2021-01-19 Fuel Pump Clean

With the 2013 FJR fuel tank installed, KrZy8 ran great. So it's  now time to look at the fuel pp of KrZy8.

Siphoned fuel from topside, removed pp, then siphoned remaining fuel from bottom side.
Some debris, not happy to see....


This pump has pumped more than 6,800 gallons! If does turn it out failed, it owes me NOTHING!


A good sign, lots of crap on the filter.. enough to impede flow to point of fuel starvation? I don't know.


Approximately 25% restricted. Remember screen has top and bottom side. Some  metal shavings, probably from drilling tank for aux tank fitting. And I thought I was super-careful..


Cleaned up. Used a tooth brush and contact cleaner.


The remaining obstruction wold not come off. Didn't want to damage the screen by using metal brush.


The debris.


Buttoned up and ready for testing.


Unobtainable, it did't' fix a thing. KrZy8 kind-a-sorta ran better, but still popping at 4k and above. I sure hope it *really* is a failing fuel pump and not that KrZy8 is pulling tricks 
on me running perfect with the 2013 tank for the 3 or 4 minutes... Remember this problem seems to mysteriously come and go instantly and it would be just like KrZy8 to run
me through the wringer and laugh the entire time..

FjRay may have a tank coming his way this weekend. If so, he's offered that fuel pp to me. Ray also has a brand new in box fuel pump tester he never used... So at least pressure could be measured between the two FJR's. He says it has many adapters too, hopefully one will fit the FJR quick disconnect fuel line.

So until then...

It's a waiting game. In the meantime, installed all the plastic, finished up the airbox/seat hardware, removed the old Carver tape, cleaned and waxed the tank (looks GREAT) then installed brand new fresh Carver tape. At least it runs good enough to take off the lift.. e.g.. I'll be able to ride back up the lift and not have to push it... which I don't have strength to do.. hmmm, maybe that lift needs a small winch on the front side?

 

[Brodie]

Don,

Just put The ‘13 tank on and go ride it hard for a few weeks! If the different color paint bugs ya…

…Carver Tape to the rescue. 
 

You have a fresh set of downstream hardware, don’t run the old pump and further contaminate things. 
 

Brodie

 

[RossKean]

Do you have access to an ultrasonic bath?  Some of that may be sticky fine residue from your JB Weld issue and it could be blocking far more than you think.  Be careful with your choice of solvents - you need to make sure it doesn't attack the various plastic bits.

The FSM gives a pressure specification for the fuel pump and an electrical resistance specification but no flow volume spec.  

 

[dcarver]

Don,

Just put The ‘13 tank on and go ride it hard for a few weeks! If the different color paint bugs ya…

…Carver Tape to the rescue. 
 

You have a fresh set of downstream hardware, don’t run the old pump and further contaminate things. 
 

Brodie

That's actually a brilliant idea, Sir Brodie. Longer run duration will prove/disprove root cause of failing fuel pump. ....And Carver tape too? Oooooh, I'm getting a woody!

Do you have access to an ultrasonic bath?  Some of that may be sticky fine residue from your JB Weld issue and it could be blocking far more than you think.  Be careful with your choice of solvents - you need to make sure it doesn't attack the various plastic bits.

The FSM gives a pressure specification for the fuel pump and an electrical resistance specification but no flow volume spec.  

I do not.. Should make the investment. They aren't all *that* much money and I have other things that could be dunked in the tank. What do you recommend for solvent? Straight up SimpleGreen?

 

[RossKean]

I do not.. Should make the investment. They aren't all *that* much money and I have other things that could be dunked in the tank. What do you recommend for solvent? Straight up SimpleGreen?

Maybe.  But I think I might try mineral spirits first.  Just be careful with anything flammable!!

If you use something that is water based, you will need to use something like alcohol to get rid of the water before you can go to gasoline.  Solvent like acetone (without ultrasonic) might be effective but you would have to make sure that it didn't eat the plastics.  I wouldn't leave it very long.

Ultrasonic tank is great for cleaning small parts and jewelry. They aren't terribly expensive.

 

[dcarver]

15 miles later and she's running GREAT. And Ivan's ECU flash is amazing.

 

[RossKean]

15 miles later and she's running GREAT. And Ivan's ECU flash is amazing.

This is with the tank and fuel pump from the '13?

(Don't tell me how great the Ivan flash is - you'll just cost me money.)

 

[FJRay]

When I was looking for solvent for my ultra sonic, Dawn dish soap was the popular choice. Been using it for a few years now with good results.

 

[RossKean]

When I was looking for solvent for my ultra sonic, Dawn dish soap was the popular choice. Been using it for a few years now with good results.

They do an amazing job for sure.  Dishwashing soap (like Dawn) would probably work well.  How much detergent to how much water were you using?

Still might try mineral spirits first.

 

[FJRay]

They do an amazing job for sure.  Dishwashing soap (like Dawn) would probably work well.  How much detergent to how much water were you using?

Still might try mineral spirits first.

I'm thinking about 4 oz. of soap to 3 gallons of water and the heat is set on 50 degrees centigrade

 

[RossKean]

I'm thinking about 4 oz. of soap to 3 gallons of water and the heat is set on 50 degrees centigrade

That's a big ultrasonic tank!  Ones I have used are in the one to two litre size range.

 

[dcarver]

This is with the tank and fuel pump from the '13?

(Don't tell me how great the Ivan flash is - you'll just cost me money.)

Wow. WOW. WOW.

A completely new, different, wonderful motobike KrZy8 is now.. I mean holy PHUCK... Before, KrZy8 was less than the 13 in 'tour' mode. KrZy8, after all the work (ignition leads trimmed, cap resistors checked, new-to-me TB's and associated sensors, new air filter and spark plugs  AND Ivan's flash..

Seriously, it now pulls harder from down low rpm's in 5th than it used to 3rd gear. No vibration, anywhere. Idle is rock steady, no 2-300 rpm hunting. Having fans turn on earlier is nice too. No more decelerations BS... 

So yes, the fuel pp is the culprit. I've been fighting this since Tylers Yosemite run when it actually quit running at park entrance then almost didn't make it back to hotel on a Panman 'scencic' ride.. 

Oh, mpg from high 20's low 30's to low 40's!

Ivan's flash on the 2013 made a nice platform better, but on the Gen2, completely transforms the entire riding experience. It really is *that* good.
 

 

[RossKean]

but on the Gen2, completely transforms the entire riding experience. It really is *that* good.

DAMN!

 

[dcarver]

DAMN!

Ross.. spend the money. Don't eat for a week, get the flash, you'll still be happy and power to weight will improve too!

 

[escapefjrtist]

Good news DC, now you have a problem that can be easily repaired! Glad you like Ivan's flash. Although I haven't ridden a flashed GEN II, I'm still tickled with the way my flashed '15 runs.

~G

 

[Moses2]

Dccarver, as I continue to find the source of my flashing full fuel gauge problem, I wanted to check the pump/sensor. Is there a procedure to get this out of the tank? removed the clamp ring,  but doesnt want to pull out. Also, are there any readings I can take with a meter at the two connections to the pump /sensor?

 

[RossKean]

I wanted to check the pump/sensor. Is there a procedure to get this out of the tank? removed the clamp ring,  but doesnt want to pull out.

Look here

2017-12-07 Fuel Pump Removal & Gas Cap Hysterectomy - Technical Discussions - FJRForum

Edit:  Also here

My Fuel Guage Flashes Me - Technical/Mechanical Problems - FJRForum

 

[dcarver]

Damn. Installed Russ Collins Engineering refurbished injectors today.. Phucking awesome! KrZy8, with all the other work, including balanced injectors, has not sound this good as far as I can remember.

Awaiting info from 1911 with his new balanced injectors too.