Do I Have a Spider Problem?

[richsp51]

Suddenly today I'm experiencing electrical issues with my 2007. Having read about GENII spider issues on the forum and some of the symptoms associated with them, I suspect that I have a spider issue. I'm hoping that by describing the specific symptoms that I'm witnessing, that those who have experienced similar symptoms could guide me to which of the spiders is most likely culprit(and where it's located)... or if it's not a spider issue, what the problem may be.

I first checked battery voltage, it's fine 13.14 volts. I then connected my Deltran battery tender and let it charge until the green light came on. That only took 10 minutes, as the battery was charged.

Here is a list of symptoms:

Ignition in on position, not attempting to start bike.

1) Running lights ok, no abnormal activity

2) Brake activated (either hand or foot) -> brake lights work normally and no abnormal activity

3) Raise/lower windscreen -> results in very slow movement AND the bright light indicator lights up.

4) Hit horn -> no horn sounds but both turn signals light AND the bright light indicator light up.

5) Turn on either turn signal -> the turn signal will flash AND the bright light indicator lights up in sync. with the turn signal

6) Activate flasher -> turn signal will flash AND the bright light indicator lights up in sync. with the turn signals

Ignition in on position and attemp to start bike

1)In gear, kickstand up and clutch pulled in -> pushing start button does nothing except illimunate the bright light indicator.

2)In neutral, kickstand either up or down, clutch either pulled in or not -> pushing start button does nothing except illimunate the bright light indicator.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[RossKean]

Almost certainly some sort of grounding issue. Might be a so-called "spider" (6 legged grounding common point) or some other connector. Many threads on the subject. One that I started includes a diagram of all of the "spiders" (courtesy of Queensland Ken). I mention this thread because it also includes a non-spider grounding problem (mine) as well as the common ones designated S4 and S6. S7 possibly as well. Have a look.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/158418-itsy-bitsy-spider/?hl=itsy

Good luck with your quest!

 

[richsp51]

Thanks Ross! I'll start with S6. Sounds similar to the post that you referenced. Anyone else please?

 

[Fred W]

Agree, ground issue. The clue is having high beam indicator illuminating when activating completely different circuits. The only thing they share is the common (ground) path.

 

[Snudge]

Start with S6, then S4, then work your way through all of them, cleaning and lubricating with a conductive grease such as Noalox. My guess is that S6 is the one giving you the problem at the moment. It happened to me while in Ireland, the good news was that when it rained, everything worked, so on that basis maybe a bucket full of cold water poured under the glove box will restore normality. I cleaned everything up and soldered an earth wire to the spider and clamped it to the frame. Six weeks later the problem came back,intermittently, this time I was in Scotland. On my return home, cropped S6 off and soldered all six wires together, retaining the earth wire, no problems since.

 

[SLK50]

"cropped S6 off and soldered all six wires together"

^^^^ This may be the only sure fix.

I'm afraid anything less is temporary at best.

 

[richsp51]

Guys, thanks for your replies, they are very much appreciated!

Following is an update:

This morning I called Yamaha at 1-800-962-7926 (option 0 for recalls) Talked to a customer rep. I gave the rep my VIN and she checked recalls. She says 2 were complete.

1) Ignition switch, Manufacturer Recall Number: 990051 and

2) Wire sublead - Manufacturer Recall Number: 990061 . This is the original spider issue but without replacing the harness.

In addition, she said there is a recall pending, namely Manufacturer Recall Number: 990062 , Wiring Harness with expiration of 2021.

She recommended I call local dealer.

I called my local dealer and talked to service manager. He checked the recall status on my bike and confirmed both of the recalls(stated above) were done in 2011. He said that the 990062 that Yamaha referred to was only to be done at the time the other wire sublead recall (990061) was done and ONLY IF there was evidence of a damage. It was NOT done on my bike. At this point, 990062 cannot be done... so says he.

I called back to Yamaha to discuss what the dealer told me just to confirm what he said regarding 990062. I got the same rep as when I called earlier. After more discussion, she wanted to send my issue up the line to corporate to see what could be done. After some discussion with the corporate rep , he called the dealer service manager to discuss.
The resultant offer proffered by the Yamaha corporate rep, as I understand it and as I repeated it to him to confirm, is to bring it in to the dealership...they have to diagnose the problem. IF they find that the issue is related to the wiring harness (the 990062 recall), Yamaha will authorize the 99062 recall and cover all the costs(except getting the bike there). However, if it's deemed NOT related to the wiring harness/recall, then I am responsible for all costs! A risk on my part for sure since just getting all the plastic off to examine and poke around a bit is an hour or two effort, thus a couple hundred bucks!!
What to do????

By the way, I checked the bike many times last evening and the bike had all the original symptoms that I noted in the original post. This morning on the way to my car, I hit the ignition switch(in neutral) and the bike started up! A couple of hours later, it would not.start ...then later it would and so on and so on. I really can't ride it. I'm on the fence as to whether to start pulling the plastic and checking the spiders S6, then S4 as Snudge suggested, or having it towed to the dealership.

Suggestions?

 

[mcatrophy]

Suggestion: take the plastic off, find the defective spider, then decide whether to DIY or to put the plastic on and get it to the dealer.

 

[Fred W]

+1

I don't like the way your dealership has handled this from the beginning, so I would be inclined top just fix it (for good) yourself.

I think if you find the spider #4, and disassemble it, you will find your problem. Cutting and splicing would be easy for anyone with the skills. If you don't have them, surely someone is nearby in the Chicago suburbs that can assist. The Yamaha fix is pretty much a half-assed repair anyway.

 

[wheatonFJR]

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=946&bih=376&q=spider+problem&oq=spider+problem&gs_l=img.12..0j0i30k1j0i5i30k1j0i8i30k1l2j0i24k1l5.1371.5289.0.7384.14.12.0.2.2.0.175.850.10j2.12.0....0...1ac.1.64.img..0.14.865.W_6CGoXE5jE#imgrc=FpqhxnOVqYpsQM%3A

 

[richsp51]

Thanks mcatrophy and Fred. Yep, I'm going to start pulling plastic and have a look, starting with spiders #6 and #4. If found bad, is it the consensus fix to cut the connector off and slice and solder the wires together? ..or can the connectors be replaced?

 

[mcatrophy]

Thanks mcatrophy and Fred. Yep, I'm going to start pulling plastic and have a look, starting with spiders #6 and #4. If found bad, is it the consensus fix to cut the connector off and slice and solder the wires together? ..or can the connectors be replaced?

No real point in replacing connectors that have already shown themselves to be iinadequate.

Cut and splice.

 

[Fred W]

And if they were replaced, or cleaned and refitted, they will just be prone to recurrence.

 

[Harald]

There's really no reason to replace the spider

Nevermind. Mcatrophy and FredW type too fast.

 

[ionbeam]

Except for troubleshooting I can't come up with any reason why the grounds go to a (dead end) connector. Somebody needs to design The Terminator for ground wires to replace connectors. (Ring lugs on a stud and a nyloc nut would do da job.)

 

[RossKean]

The only difficulty with cutting off the spider, stripping wires back to unburned copper and soldering is the fact that Yamaha is not overly generous with providing any slack! The #6 isn't too bad but there isn't much to spare with the #4; especially if the wire close to the "spider" is heat damaged.

 

[richsp51]

UPDATE: 8/25/2016

First, symptoms that I DID NOT mention in my original post with Ignition in on position, not attempting to start bike.:
1) tail light OK
2) License plate light OK
3) Glove box solenoid opens OK
4) power receptacle in glovebox works OK

I've been working on the problem, so far it's unresolved but I have a few things to report thus far.
I started with what was easiest.
First to report is that the problem is intermittent in that occasional the bike will start. Even when it does, it exhibits non-normal behavior with indicator lights.
Here's what I've inspected:
1) Inspected S1 by removing left side panel under the seat and the air box cover. Pulled off cover and spider itself. Result: Looks pristine. I started here because it was the easiest to access and provided practice for spider inspection,
2) Inspected S6 by removing black inner panel next to the horn. Pulled off cover and spider itself. It looks pristine.
3) Inspected the "vibrzn/RossKean" 6 pin connector near the S6 spider. I removed the lower left cowl for access. Unplugged connector and inspected. Result: Looked very good, no apparent corrosion or signs of stress.
Note: When this coupler is unplugged, there are NO console lights except neutral indicator. Specifically there are no turn signals or windscreen or gauges or glovebox solenoid, or glovebox power or front indicator lights.
4) I've located S7 and S8 by (sort of) removing the upper front dash panels C and D (I think that's the names, I've lost my owners manual!) I can see them but I haven't figured out how to really get at them. Does the whole front cowling need to be removed to inspect them?

Next I'm going to inspect S4

Advice welcome.

 

[ionbeam]

...removing the upper front dash panels C and D (I think that's the names, I've lost my owners manual!)...

Nuttin' to do with spiders, but you can go to the Yamaha web site and download the owners manual for freebie.

 

[richsp51]

...removing the upper front dash panels C and D (I think that's the names, I've lost my owners manual!)...

Nuttin' to do with spiders, but you can go to the Yamaha web site and download the owners manual for freebie.

Thanks ionbeam, I've done this but it seem like it's locked for print. That is, printing is disabled. I want to be able to print pages to take out to the garage with me. Any other recourse that you know of?

Regards,

Rich