Do I Have a Spider Problem?

[Queensland Ken]

so adding a ground wire isn't simple

It is.

You solder a 2.5mm pig tail to each of the six 12 volt bridging pieces.

Punch a hole through the black plastic cap.

Treat the spiders & reinstall.

Run a 4mm trunk wire to all six 12 volt spiders and solder splice the pig tails and run back to the battery -ve.

I'll take pics if I ever do it again, lol. Performed the fix twice now.

Not as nice as Brodies harness but does a similar job.

Measured a neutral current of about 16 amps ? being shunted.

Just treat the two 5 volt spiders, do not join to the 12 volt neutrals, BOOM lol.

One S6 fault and a intermittent fault that may have been a S4 or S6 ? still AOK after a few years.

 

[richsp51]

Here is my (hopefully) final update on this topic. Note that I am the OP.

Today I picked up my bike. Yamaha PAID IN FULL for a new wiring harness. This is consistent with the way the original recall was to be done in that if the S4 ground block("spider") showed damage, the wiring harness was to be replaced. If no damage was evident, then the recall "fix harness" was to be installed.

If any others are having spider issues and have had the original recall "fix" done, try to pursue having the harness replaced through the dealer and Yamaha customer relations.

I asked the service manager if the recall "fix harness" was installed to the just installed new harness. He said NO. I wonder if this is consistent with others that have had their wiring harness replaced? I also wonder how long it will be until the next spider issue?

 

[Fred W]

I don't think that is consistent with the recall. Although they replaced the damaged harness, the recall instructions still require that the additional ground be added to prevent (or, more accurately, reduce the likelihood of) a future failure of the harness ground connector.

Anyone that can't see that is sticking their head in the sand. I would nicely ask the dealership to please contact Yamaha Tech Support with that additional question, as what they are telling you makes absolutely no sense. Without the added jumper cable to ground from the S4 connector, what's to keep the brand new harness from doing exactly the same thing that the last one did?

 

[richsp51]

Fred, I took off the left side panel to expose the location of the S1 spider and to see if anything looked different. I'll post a before and after photo later, but it's easy to confirm that there is indeed a different wiring harness bundle and I do NOT see any evidence of S1 anymore! I may pull the tank to expose the spiders underneath and check. Perhaps the new wiring harness doesn't do spiders? Could that be?

 

[richsp51]

Here's a follow up to my previous post with before and after photos. The before being with the original wiring harness and the after being the new wiring harness.

Below is a photo of the original wiring harness showing the location of S1.

You can see the wiring harness bundle comes in OVER the air shroud and spider S1 is clearly visible(I had the black cap removed in the photo)

Below is a photo of the new wiring harness.

You can see the wiring harness bundle comes in UNDER the air shroud and it looks different. I don't see spider S1, I do see new wire bundles going above the air shroud. It appears that S1 is no more S1 is there, it's just buried behind the wire bundle.

This is was easiest place for me to check for a wiring harness difference.

 

[richsp51]

ANOTHER UPDATE:
I'm glad I got my bike back, but now I'm not sure if the repair is complete.

I removed the tank , t-bar and the insulation to get at the "new" harness to check on what's been done.
A new wiring harness has indeed been installed. It has an ID tag on it . Two lines are on the ID as follows:

3P6-82590-11
11-9VT R 0175

There's also a QR code, but it's hard to get a photo to read the QR.

Alas, S4 has only the black cap on it, no "recall repair harness" coming off of it.

The Ground Wire Junction Yamaha Technical Bulletin M2011-003R for the original recall (for 2006 thru 2009) states:
"What Yamaha and your dealer will do: To correct this defect, Yamaha is initiating a Factory Modification Campaign. Affected motorcycles must have an additional wire sub-lead installed OR, if the ground joint connector has already been damaged from overheating, have the main wire harness replaced."


I highlighted the word OR because it doesn't say "if the ground joint connector has already been damaged from overheating, have the main wire harness replaced AND connect an additional wire sub-lead"

I need to get clarification from Yamaha because my dealer, who was working with Yamaha customer relations who authorized the work, only did the replacement wiring harness, NOT the replacement AND the additional sub-lead. Was this at Yamaha's direction or a mistake?

Can someone tell me how the 2010 and newer FJR's wiring harness is handling S4 ? Do they have the equivalent of the "recall repair harness" connected to S4 or is it just terminated with a spider and black cap?

Also, opinions and comments are welcome. Thanks.

 

[Queensland Ken]

Just bite the bullet and do it yourself.

Make up your own bypass for all 6 12volt neutral connectors.

They F*****ed up again by the looks of it.

Just stop worrying about Yamaha and do it, you know it will done right.

Spend an afternoon on it and it will be all fixed,problem over.

 

[mcatrophy]

...Can someone tell me how the 2010 and newer FJR's wiring harness is handling S4 ? Do they have the equivalent of the "recall repair harness" connected to S4 or is it just terminated with a spider and black cap?

Not sure how much this helps, but the '10 harness is different from the '06. For example, the spider, front left under the tank, has 4 wires, one of heavier gauge. (Click on image for larger view)



If I remember correctly, the '06 had 6 wires. Definitely different.

 

[Fred W]

Even my 2014 has the main wire bundle running along the top of the air box access (I know this because it makes it a PITA to get the air filter in and out).

It looks like the shop routes the new harness however they felt like it rather than following the routing guidance in the FSM. It is one of the hazards of having them replace the entire harness as part of the recall; that it may never be routed as well as it was from the factory.

I would agree with Queensland Ken, you should just cobble up your own Brodie style additional grounding mod, or else just run it as it is and wit until it fails again.

 

[richsp51]

Thanks Queensland Ken and Fred for your input.

Before resorting to cobbling up a Brodie style additional grounding mod, I feel compelled to get straight answers from Yamaha. I can't be the only one who has experienced a failed recall (or eventually will). That Yamaha's Technical Bulletin M2011-003R specifies that "if the ground joint connector has already been damaged from overheating, have the main wire harness replaced" and not explicitly say to then install the "additional wire sub-lead" seems weird... unless the replacement wire harness is somehow different then the original. So, I'm going to pursue an official answer from Yamaha.

Still, I'm wondering, Fred,how S6 is handled on your 2016. Is it just terminated with a cap or does to have a connector with a cable like the recall style " wire sub-lead" ? Actually, since the recall was in 2011 and only applies to 2006 through 2009, how any of the 2010 and newer FJR's wiring harness is handling S4.?

 

[RossKean]

I was under the impression that the full wiring harness that was used for the recall was a newer design (i.e. 2010 or later). I haven't kept very close watch but I don't recall any 2010-2012 bikes with S4 failures - certainly not common. I don't think they were applying a S4 style sub-harness to the recall replacements.

 

[richsp51]

Thanks RossKean. Tomorrow I'll call the Yamaha customer representative who's been handling my case and (try) to find out.

 

[Queensland Ken]

May pay to read this thread. https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php/topic/161335-fjrf0094-spiderintermittent-ground-wire-failures-2010-and-later-research/page-1

You really don't want to look at the Gen3 wiring, it looks horrible ad hoc on my AE, ES for you guys over there.

Took one look, a few photos and put it all back together.

Will be expecting some problems in time.

 

[Fred W]

OK, a little investigation into harness part numbering has me believing the new harness is an updated one that resolves the S4 spider issue without adding the recall harness. Here's what I found:

The part number for your 2006 or 2007 harness was originally 3P6-82590-10-00 and has been superceded to 3P6-5290-11-00

The 2008 harness was 3P6-82590-60-00 and updated number is 3P6-82590-61-00

The 2009 harness was 3P6-82590-90-00 and now is 3P6-82590-91-00

The 2010 thru 2012's all have 1CY-82590-10-00 with no supercession. This leads me to believe that all the 2006 - 2008 harnesses with the 1 in the 10th digit are as a result of the recall. I'm sure that is what the dealership is going to tell you.

 

[richsp51]

Fred, thanks very much for that! I'll report back what Yamaha tells me. Just one thing... my bike is a 2007, not a 2006. That would mean that my original harness part number was 3P6-82590-60 (per your investigation). But my NEW harness number is 3P6-82590-11, not 3P6-82590-61

Here's a photo of the tag on the new harness just to be clear:

 

[richsp51]

To follow up more on Fred's work regarding the wiring harness part number caper...

1) On Partzilla, https://www.partzilla.com/parts/search/Yamaha/Motorcycle/2007/FJR1300A+-+FJR13AW/ELECTRICAL+2/parts.html

it says the wiring harness for the 2007 (my year) as:

WIRE HARNESS ASSY
3P6-82590-10-00

This must be the original part number as Fred was stating. Interesting, that no "superseded by" number stated. Based on Fred's statements and (2) and (3) below, this must be an oversight.

2) On BikeBandit.com https://www.bikebandit.com/oem-parts/2007-yamaha-fjr1300a-fjr13aw/o/m145141#sch642380
it says:
WIRE HARNESS ASSY
3P6-82590-11-00

This must be the revised (in 10th digit as Fred stated) wiring harness.

3) Finally, on M&D (mower and appliance of all places! ) https://www.m-and-d.com/YAM-3P6-82590-10-00.html
I found this during a google search for Yamaha part number 3P6-82590-10
WIRE HARNESS ASSY
3P6-82590-10-00
REPLACED BY: 3P6-82590-11-00 WIRE HARNESS ASSY


This confirms that the original wiring harness 3P6-82590-10-00 (for my 2007) has been superseded by 3P6-82590-11-00 (the one that's now installed in my 2007)

 

[rbentnail]

I'm getting the impression that you think a recall, however done, is the end-all of your problem. It's not. Do the research and you'll see- even the '10-'12 wiring loom is subject to the same failure.

Preventative maintenance on your part is still required or you will be going through this all again in a few yrs. I've said it before, seems you're not listening: my '07 has never had neither of Yamaha's "fixes" done to it. Probably never will. It's a simple maintenance item, 20 minutes once per yr. If you're not willing to put in the minimal effort need and if you expect Yamaha to correctly repair and maintain this, the best thing you can do is to sell the bike now b/c sooner or later you'll be back whining about Yamaha's crappy electrical system and Yamaha's crappy dealership service departments and Yamaha's crappy customer service. The facts are: dealerships don't know about it, Yamaha doesn't adequately address it, and Yamaha Corp doesn't care if you're satisfied about it or not. The sky is blue- that's just the way it is.

 

[richsp51]

I'm getting the impression that you think a recall, however done, is the end-all of your problem. It's not. Do the research and you'll see- even the '10-'12 wiring loom is subject to the same failure.

I don't want you getting the wrong impression, rbentnail. I've got a new harness, I'm simply trying to make sure that the new harness install has been done correctly and if the new harness that supersedes the original needs the "additional wire sub-lead" of the original 2011 recall or not.

Thanks for the reference and advice. Amazing that Yamaha still hasn't got this right on the newer models. By the way, I did file a NHTSA report on this issue last week as it's a failure of a safety recall. Refer to post #47

If you can access all those connectors for maintenance in 20 minutes, you deserve a medal!

 

[Fred W]

Sorry for the little misdirection. I had typed the years in wrong, but have gone back and fixed it in my prior post.

2006 and 2007 had the same part number wiring harness.

2008 was different, and

2009 was different.

Then 2010 thru 2012 were all the same.

You got the correct, updated harness for your '07.

 

[rbentnail]

I'm getting the impression that you think a recall, however done, is the end-all of your problem. It's not. Do the research and you'll see- even the '10-'12 wiring loom is subject to the same failure.

I don't want you getting the wrong impression, rbentnail. I've got a new harness, I'm simply trying to make sure that the new harness install has been done correctly and if the new harness that supersedes the original needs the "additional wire sub-lead" of the original 2011 recall or not.

Thanks for the reference and advice. Amazing that Yamaha still hasn't got this right on the newer models. By the way, I did file a NHTSA report on this issue last week as it's a failure of a safety recall. Refer to post #47

If you can access all those connectors for maintenance in 20 minutes, you deserve a medal!

Thanks but not exactly. I'm one of "those people" that does all the maintenance myself. So for instance, when I have the side cover off to replace the air filter I inspect and goop the spider there. And when I have the seats off and tank up for, say spark plug replacement, I address the spiders there. Etc., etc. It's just an additional 20 mins max (total for all 8) added to already planned maintenance tasks. But my '07 (and maybe yours too BTW) is getting long in the tooth so IMHO there's no choice other than selling the bike: pull the plastics, including the front end, and check spiders, connectors, etc. every winter. Once you do it the first time it's really easy. I can have the dash, sides and the front end off in about 30 mins. I'm seriously considering just cutting some spiders out and soldering the wires together and be done with it completely except a) I kinda enjoy doing it, and 2) I'd still have to pull plastics to access connectors. For me it's kind of a test/pride thing- maintenance or failure; not depending on Mammy Yammy Corporate to do it right, and on and on. Like, "how far/long can it go without any recall work if you actually do the maintenance required to make it last?" Besides, Yamaha dealerships have done nothing but F up my bike, why would I not do all the reasonably expected maintenance I can if for no other reason than to keep it out of someone else's shop?