Does the FJR have a VSS wire?

[BuilderBob]

The failures have all been AE models-and the AE models only. Forget having the CCS100 on an AE, your only choice for this model is the MC Cruise.

It would be good for Smitty to chime in here.

The only thing I have to go on is this thread and post #60 in which Smitty says:

"I am beginning to think some bikes are more sensitive to have thing tapped into the coil wiring. I am thinking it is a bike problem, not a servo/cruise problem. I won't be replacing the servo on the troubled bike for a few weeks. If that does not do it a refund will be issued. The only problems I have had are on 06-07 models... Smitty"

Although he may only have the problem with the AE models, he doesn't specify that in his post.

 

[radman]

I believe after following other threads that it does not just pertain to the AE models. I'm also experiencing the same issues with my install, and have changed everything except for using the alternate location for tach signal. I'll give that a try soon. I, as well as others have been racking our brains trying to figure this out for months. I keep coming back to the tach signal as the culprit.
I've read that Yamaha will be updating/replacing some of our 07 ECU's soon due to the altitude issues. I'm hoping that this might resolve my cruise problems. The reason I think it might, is for the fact that while heading to WFO last month, my cruise worked fine for over an hour, but I was at 7000 ft or so. Locally at 1800 ft, the cruise only works for 15-20 min.

Call me optimistic. ;-)

If it's quitting after a short period of time, especially at higher altitudes, loss of vacumn the likely culprit. A larger reservoir would help, but realize that at higher speed, or climbing grades, a very small vac signal exists. Pulling off of 4 ports rather than one, along with a larger reservoir, and using a check valve, should fix the problem. Decel also rebuilds the vacumn supply.

 

[Alex]

If it's quitting after a short period of time, especially at higher altitudes, loss of vacumn the likely culprit. A larger reservoir would help, but realize that at higher speed, or climbing grades, a very small vac signal exists. Pulling off of 4 ports rather than one, along with a larger reservoir, and using a check valve, should fix the problem. Decel also rebuilds the vacumn supply.

Thanks for the tips, however a few of us with 2nd gen bike have already tried the above with no gain. I personally have tapped into all 4 vacuum ports, AND doubled my vacuum reservoir (added another piece of PVC) with no noticeable gains. Also performed all the normal diag procedures, tried the other coil pack, replaced the CC unit, grounded the brake circuit feed, ran all wires to battery directly for power and ground.....

I'm fine with just the throttle rocker, I just have so much time wrapped up in this install that some day it would be nice to have it working all the time. I might add that when on long trips I can set the cruise and it will work fine for about 30-60 sec. Enough to give my wrist some temp relief.

 

[BuilderBob]

I'm fine with just the throttle rocker, I just have so much time wrapped up in this install that some day it would be nice to have it working all the time. I might add that when on long trips I can set the cruise and it will work fine for about 30-60 sec. Enough to give my wrist some temp relief.

Seems like most of us with afflicted CC's have varying degrees of the same problem. I, like you, can use the CC to rest my right hand, but mine will work for anywhere from a few seconds to 30 minutes or more. It's extremely random and unpredictable.

It would be nice to have a CC that works as it is supposed to, and I've considered the MC Cruise. I just can't justify the price. I'm also not enamored of the magnetic pickup on the swing arm. I would expect that, for over $600, they could have done a better job integrating that piece into the bike.

 

[BrunDog]

Have any of you guys thought that perhaps it is the vacuum that is the problem, not the tach signal? There is absolutely NO reason on earth why the tach signal would be a problem. In fact, there is nothing fancy about it, it is simply a square wave that the ECU puts out to drive the coil, which in turn generates the spark. Nothing should have changed on this from 05 --> 06/07.

If I were you, I would put a vacuum gauge inline with the servo, and watch the vacuum when you drive, engage/disengage the CC, and climb/descend hills.

The other thing that comes to mind is the pulley. Perhaps the new pulley requires more torque to rotate it, which translates into more force than the servo can generate, even with strong vacuum? Has anyone tried to measure it, or put on an extension so there is a bigger moment arm and less force required by the servo?

There has to be a reason for this, and I will bet my *** it ain't the tach signal.

-BD

 

[BuilderBob]

Have any of you guys thought that perhaps it is the vacuum that is the problem, not the tach signal? There is absolutely NO reason on earth why the tach signal would be a problem. In fact, there is nothing fancy about it, it is simply a square wave that the ECU puts out to drive the coil, which in turn generates the spark. Nothing should have changed on this from 05 --> 06/07.
If I were you, I would put a vacuum gauge inline with the servo, and watch the vacuum when you drive, engage/disengage the CC, and climb/descend hills.

The other thing that comes to mind is the pulley. Perhaps the new pulley requires more torque to rotate it, which translates into more force than the servo can generate, even with strong vacuum? Has anyone tried to measure it, or put on an extension so there is a bigger moment arm and less force required by the servo?

There has to be a reason for this, and I will bet my *** it ain't the tach signal.

-BD

Appreciate the information. Seems I have more time to complain about the issue than to investigate. :blink:

I've tried many variations of vacuum, but haven't put a gauge on it. Might be a possibility.

As far as the tension of the spring goes, the tension of the automotive applications this system is intended for is much greater. I've done them. No problems, even with small 4-bangers.

I'll yield to the vacuum possibility because I haven't done that test, but I am apprehensive.

 

[Constant Mesh]

Don't think 4 vacuum ports offer any real advantage over 1 port for this application. The vacuum magnitude is the same for one or multiple ports. It's not an additive function. Four ports will evacuate air more rapidly. But one port can easily charge/evacuate an accessory vacuum canister. Yet air volume is really not the issue here. The volume inside the servo is quite small. And as the servo is making small adjustments to the position of its internal diaphragm the volume of air moved is very small. The biggest volume demand on the vacuum source likely occurs when you actuate the servo from an off or inactive condition -- a portion of the air in half of the servo's internal volume is evacuated to the engine TB or vacuum canister.

Electrically, I see no difference between the '06 and the earlier models with respect to cruise control operation. Note: There is a difference in the stop light circuitry. The '06 has an intermediate brake light relay which was not present on the earlier models. The purple and red wires, the stop light inputs to the servo are likely connected a bit different on the '06 with its relay. The purple wire would be paralleled with the FJR's yellow/green wire back at the brake lights. This connection could also be made at a wiring bundle entering the ABS ECU under the seat. But where to connect the red wire is a bit trickier. The red wire should be paralleled with the FJR's brown wire which is the fused 12 volt source for the stop lights, the grip heaters (if installed), the windshield actuator electrics, the brake light relay coil power, the horns, and the the glove box solenoid latch. But since the servo's red wire just needs to be connected to an unswitched 12 volt source any constant source on the FJR would do. I think the Audiovox designers included the red wire as a separate input from the brake circuit to ensure that the Audiovox would shut down or not operate if the brake light fuse was blown and the brake light couldn't operate. If the brake light fuse is blown the Audiovox's purple wire cannot shut down the system. The red wire input from the brake circuit verifies that the brake circuit is powered. If the red wire is connected to some other 12 volt source on the FJR the brake circuit fuse could be blown and the Audiovox would still operate. That's probably not so good.

The throttle bodies on the '06 are a bit different from the earlier models. The '06 has two external vacuum connections on each TB. On the California model there are three connections on TB1 and TB4. This additional connection powers the fuel vapor charcoal canister. The earlier models had one less connection on each TB. I don't know if this difference has any potential effect on Audiovox operation.

Finally, the throttle cable cam at the TB's was changed on the '06. For a smaller twist of the throttle grip you get a larger rotational movement in the TB butterfly valves. The biggest difference occurs as you open the throttle from the closed position. The effect is progressively smaller as the throttle is opened more and more. But when you connect the Audiovox cable to the tab on the throttle cable cam I don't know if there is any difference in the required pulling force or sensitivity as compared to the earlier FJR's. Possibly the tab is radially a bit closer to the cable cam shaft on the '06. If so it would require a stronger pulling force to rotate the cam. And, of course, the throttle springs could be different on the '06.

 

[smitty141]

The failures have all been AE models-and the AE models only. Forget having the CCS100 on an AE, your only choice for this model is the MC Cruise.

It would be good for Smitty to chime in here.

The only thing I have to go on is this thread and post #60 in which Smitty says:

"I am beginning to think some bikes are more sensitive to have thing tapped into the coil wiring. I am thinking it is a bike problem, not a servo/cruise problem. I won't be replacing the servo on the troubled bike for a few weeks. If that does not do it a refund will be issued. The only problems I have had are on 06-07 models... Smitty"

Although he may only have the problem with the AE models, he doesn't specify that in his post.

Hi guys, I have had the same problems with 06/07 models only. I have had only one AE failure, and it was a different problem. After that install the auto clutch would not engage, after hours of work the cruise was removed and all was fine. Later I installed a Mc Cruise on that bike and it worked fine.

Out of almost 70 installs I have had a handful of failures(all 06/07 models). I have also tried using the Hall effect switch on the rear wheel on a bike with a problem. It did not solve the problem. Some think it is a heat on the servo problem, I don't think so.. I have installed servo's on AE models under the tank over the radiator without a problem. Next time I have a problem I will try swapping out the resistor (higher/lower value) on the coil wire to see if this solves the problem. Not sure if this will work, but am going to try... Good luck everyone, Smitty

 

[v65]

I've read that Yamaha will be updating/replacing some of our 07 ECU's soon due to the altitude issues. I'm hoping that this might resolve my cruise problems. The reason I think it might, is for the fact that while heading to WFO last month, my cruise worked fine for over an hour, but I was at 7000 ft or so. Locally at 1800 ft, the cruise only works for 15-20 min.

You might be on to something, evidence points to something that is only a problem on some Gen II's. We do know that ECU programming has changed during model years, anybody tried classifying problem bikes by when they were manufactured? It's not clear to me how changes in the ECU programming would affect the CC, but there could be some other factor.

From the sticker on the steering head my bike was manufacture 3/06. After the initial reports of malfunctioning CC's I road mine for 30 miles straight with the CC on, which I would never come close to doing normally BTW, and it worked flawlessly.

 

[smitty141]

I've read that Yamaha will be updating/replacing some of our 07 ECU's soon due to the altitude issues. I'm hoping that this might resolve my cruise problems. The reason I think it might, is for the fact that while heading to WFO last month, my cruise worked fine for over an hour, but I was at 7000 ft or so. Locally at 1800 ft, the cruise only works for 15-20 min.

You might be on to something, evidence points to something that is only a problem on some Gen II's. We do know that ECU programming has changed during model years, anybody tried classifying problem bikes by when they were manufactured? It's not clear to me how changes in the ECU programming would affect the CC, but there could be some other factor.

From the sticker on the steering head my bike was manufacture 3/06. After the initial reports of malfunctioning CC's I road mine for 30 miles straight with the CC on, which I would never come close to doing normally BTW, and it worked flawlessly.

Looking back, I wish I would have done just that. Composed a list of bike by date or serial #, there might be a window of working/non-working bikes... Smitty

 

[rfulcher]

I hope the new "ECU fix" for surging FJRs fixes the cruise control, don't have a lot of hope however.

One observation that might be worth making is the effect of air temperature. My impression is that mine works longer when the air is cooler. The costal region of South Carolina has been warm for a good while now. Maybe with fall and winter coming on we can see what happens. I suspect mine will work much longer in 40 degree weather.

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I have one of the flaky AVCC units. Mine will sometimes work for 30 minutes at a time and then just barely work at others. The longer a ride the worse it gets

Other symptoms:

-The resume function gets weaker

-Mine does not gradually drop speed it releases all at once

-The ability to hold speed gets physically weaker

-When it is fresh reverse pressure on the throttle does not shut it down, as time passes it is easy to make it shut down with reverse throttle pressure.

-In general when fresh (up to 30 minutes) the cruise is robust and perfect. As time passes it gets weak to the point of being useless except for as a brief throttle lock.

-Resting it by turning it off while riding does not seem to help regain performance

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

A review of past problem solving efforts for folks giving advise without reading :angry2: the long trials and tribulations of prior threads.

Things I (and others) have tried without any change or improvement in the problem:

-Confirmed that install is at least standard or better

-Vacuum pulled off of all 4 ports

-Home made and Adiovox vacuum container used.

-Vacuum confirmed as adequate with vacuum gauge in tank bag while riding

-Brake circuit bypassed (professional on closed course, don't try this at home, good way to screw up bad, etc..)

-All power and ground lines directly to battery

-Passenger seat removed to improve airflow around servo.

-Excess wire removed from all circuits

-Servo and all other components replaced (second servo may have been slightly better???)

Things tried by others.

-Speed sensing wire connected to orange wire at ECU

-Magnetic pickup system used

-Resistor replaced

-Double vacuum containers or double vacuum volume

 

[Constant Mesh]

Inadequate vacuum is the most likely culprit. Borrow a MityVac which has a vacuum gauge and tee it into your system on the servo side of your check valve. Periodically monitor the gauge reading when the servo is working OK and then when it starts sputtering and stops working.

The gauge should read approximately 10 inches vacuum when the engine is idling with the throttle closed. It should read less than 10 for all other running conditions except possibly when the bike is at speed and the throttle is abruptly closed with the engine at a speed considerably above idle.

The vacuum source must maintain a minimum 6 inches vacuum for the Audiovox to work properly. A vacuum canister is necessary if the vacuum drops below 6 inches when the throttle is opened.

Please provide a listing of your electrical connections. Where is the Audiovox wiring connected to your FJR's wiring harness?

 

[rfulcher]

Inadequate vacuum is the most likely culprit. Borrow a MityVac which has a vacuum gauge and tee it into your system on the servo side of your check valve. Periodically monitor the gauge reading when the servo is working OK and then when it starts sputtering and stops working.
The gauge should read approximately 10 inches vacuum when the engine is idling with the throttle closed. It should read less than 10 for all other running conditions except possibly when the bike is at speed and the throttle is abruptly closed with the engine at a speed considerably above idle.

The vacuum source must maintain a minimum 6 inches vacuum for the Audiovox to work properly. A vacuum canister is necessary if the vacuum drops below 6 inches when the throttle is opened.

Please read the prior post. It was written to avoid answering the same ...basic... already addressed "solutions." As stated in the post above yours I have done this and the vacuum was well above the minimum at all times. As high as 15 inches and never under 8 inches.

Please provide a listing of your electrical connections. Where is the Audiovox wiring connected to your FJR's wiring harness?

...as stated in the post above yours. Problem was unchanged with all wires, positive and negative, running directly to the battery and brake circuit bypassed. RPM pickup wire to the coil. Other have used the orange wire near the ECU and the magnetic pickup system without any change in the problem..

 

[v65]

So Rick what is the date of manufacture of your bike?

 

[ARFJR]

My 06AE #0000013, I'm assuming, was one of the earlier one's made. I've had no problems at all with my CCS install.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=24139

The only thing different I did was tapping into the wire next to the orange wire for the tach signal (the other coil wire), and the brake wire in the tail because it was near were I placed the servo unit.

Everything else was pretty conventional.

I think the problems some bike installs have had are relatively rare and are probably the result of either bad CCS units or instalation gremlins. Not the bike design. IMHO

 

[v65]

are probably the result of either bad CCS units or instalation gremlins

Except that if you read the other thread on this topic you will realise that new CCS units have been installed in some cases, pretty much ruling out the bad unit theory. Some have also completely redone the installation, and keep in mind that Smitty has had problems with installations. Nobody has installed more of these things than Smitty, there are plenty of glowing reports out there to verify his work if you do a search. Although it doesn't really make sense to me yet, from what I have read this has led me to conclude something is up with certain bikes, maybe the ECU.