Dry rear splines answered

[markjenn]

Way too much worry in this thread.

You couldn't strip or wear out those rear hub splines in a billion miles. Compare the total area that the torque forces act over vs. the area in the forward splines. Probably 10x more area. Yamaha has absolutely no lubrication requirement for these. I'm sure it doesn't hurt to slap something in there if you like, but it is not necessary at all.

Yamaha does specify "lithium soap based grease" (Honday Moly is good too) on the splines at the u-joint, but only on disassembly. There is no periodic maintenance requirement, although it's easy to get to the one at the front of the drive shft when you do a tire change, so why not. But it's not one of those things likely to bite if you skip it for a bit. Whether you lube the rear spline at tire changes, I'd do both the drive shaft and the u-joint splines about every 16K or so when you're supposed to do the swingarm and suspension linkages. Speaking of which, it doesn't make much sense to worry about doing those splines religiously every tire change and then let the suspension and swingarm bearings go for 50K miles like most do. As they say, RTFM.

- Mark

 

[johnny80s]

This whole thead was about the hub spline but Im bored at work so Ill move things along.
FredW yes the drive shaft moves in and out due to the swing arm moving up and down. That is not only why they need grease. They also need grease because they are two peices of metal meshing together and the grease prevents wear.

The rear hub spline needs grease for nearly the same reason as the drive shaft. It is two pieces of metal meshing together under pressure and the grease prevents wear.

Please someone prove me wrong here. Clean the hub out, spray some WD40 in there to prevent rust and let me know what happens over the next 20,000 miles with just regular maintenance of WD40 in the hub spline since we all agree the drive shaft splines need moly.

rbentnail I like the idea of dry moly. I never knew dry moly even existed.

I respectfully disagree. 2 pieces of metal that mesh together, but that do not move relative to each other, will not wear. There must be friction to wear. If there is no relative motion there is no friction, only pressure. Now, it may very well be that there is some other relative motion that I have not accounted for.

My reason for describing the motion of the drive shaft spline was to point out how different that interface is from the one at the rear wheel hub.

Fred the drive shaft splines slide in and out of the female part of the u-joint. It is like ***. You can't tell me there is not friction there. That's why they make this stuff.

Slappy this might work for the splines too.

Sorry Fred I could not resist.

 

[Fairlaner]

it is Friday I guess

R

 

[Fred W]

This whole thead was about the hub spline but Im bored at work so Ill move things along.
FredW yes the drive shaft moves in and out due to the swing arm moving up and down. That is not only why they need grease. They also need grease because they are two peices of metal meshing together and the grease prevents wear.

The rear hub spline needs grease for nearly the same reason as the drive shaft. It is two pieces of metal meshing together under pressure and the grease prevents wear.

Please someone prove me wrong here. Clean the hub out, spray some WD40 in there to prevent rust and let me know what happens over the next 20,000 miles with just regular maintenance of WD40 in the hub spline since we all agree the drive shaft splines need moly.

rbentnail I like the idea of dry moly. I never knew dry moly even existed.

I respectfully disagree. 2 pieces of metal that mesh together, but that do not move relative to each other, will not wear. There must be friction to wear. If there is no relative motion there is no friction, only pressure. Now, it may very well be that there is some other relative motion that I have not accounted for.

My reason for describing the motion of the drive shaft spline was to point out how different that interface is from the one at the rear wheel hub.

Fred the drive shaft splines slide in and out of the female part of the u-joint. It is like ***. You can't tell me there is not friction there. That's why they make this stuff.

Slappy this might work for the splines too.

Sorry Fred I could not resist.

You're right. It is Friday. And well past the start of "happy hour". That must be why you missed the whole prior conversation where I said (much the same as you) that there is friction in the drive shaft splines, but not the rear wheel hub spline.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Way too much worry in this thread.You couldn't strip or wear out those rear hub splines in a billion miles.

Maybe? -- maybe not...?

There have been many documented cases of worn-out dry splines -- in many different applications. The bad splines are charecterized by rust being present and the normally square-shaped splines worn all-pointy-like. Seen, usually, on bikes that are suspected of never having any lube applied since new.

BMWs & MotoGuzzis have been infamous for these kinds of proplems. Way back when the Honda Gold Wing was a new model (GL1000) the first trans-continental "LD" riders actually ruined a few rear-drive-hub splines because no one told them they needed some lube on them.

Although there's no sliding forces along the splines (rear-hub), there is pressure on those splines -- power being transmitted.

Grease is merely (in a general sense) oil captured in a carrier of some sort (to keep it where it, the lube, is supposed to be.

 

[Fred W]

Way too much worry in this thread.You couldn't strip or wear out those rear hub splines in a billion miles.

Maybe? -- maybe not...?

There have been many documented cases of worn-out dry splines -- in many different applications. The bad splines are charecterized by rust being present and the normally square-shaped splines worn all-pointy-like. Seen, usually, on bikes that are suspected of never having any lube applied since new.

BMWs & MotoGuzzis have been infamous for these kinds of proplems. Way back when the Honda Gold Wing was a new model (GL1000) the first trans-continental "LD" riders actually ruined a few rear-drive-hub splines because no one told them they needed some lube on them.

Although there's no sliding forces along the splines (rear-hub), there is pressure on those splines -- power being transmitted.

Grease is merely (in a general sense) oil captured in a carrier of some sort (to keep it where it, the lube, is supposed to be.

I think in every case those are the drive shaft splines (well familiar with the beemer spline lube deal). Not a wheel mounting "spline".

 

[Slappy]

Finally some information I wanted to hear. So the majority are in agreement that the rear hub splines do not need lubricant of any type. Is this correct?

 

[Bustanut joker]

Ya know.. Once whilst shaving my anus, I noticed my "spline" was dry. Slapped a lil aftershave on it :wacko: :blink: :angry03:

Nota go idea :fool:

:jester:

 

[Fred W]

Ya know.. Once whilst shaving my anus, I noticed my "spline" was dry. Slapped a lil aftershave on it :wacko: :blink: :angry03: Nota go idea :fool:

:jester:

Why did I know when I saw the "Topic Subscription Reply Notification" from BJ that this was gonna be about someones anus? :blink:

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

Way too much worry in this thread.You couldn't strip or wear out those rear hub splines in a billion miles.

Maybe? -- maybe not...?

There have been many documented cases of worn-out dry splines -- in many different applications. The bad splines are charecterized by rust being present and the normally square-shaped splines worn all-pointy-like. Seen, usually, on bikes that are suspected of never having any lube applied since new.

BMWs & MotoGuzzis have been infamous for these kinds of proplems. Way back when the Honda Gold Wing was a new model (GL1000) the first trans-continental "LD" riders actually ruined a few rear-drive-hub splines because no one told them they needed some lube on them.

Although there's no sliding forces along the splines (rear-hub), there is pressure on those splines -- power being transmitted.

Grease is merely (in a general sense) oil captured in a carrier of some sort (to keep it where it, the lube, is supposed to be.

I think in every case those are the drive shaft splines (well familiar with the beemer spline lube deal). Not a wheel mounting "spline".

Yep, BMWs where among the infamous.... The purpose of the spline is to transmit power radially -- any axial movement (if present?) is incidental (not to say that it's to be ignored). Many are the cases of worn-out spline couplings where movement just wasn't an issue. BMW clutch hub splines failed by the thousands because (mainly) there was no grease applied initially. These failures were charecterized by fully-rounded clutch hub (female) splines and half-worn, pointed, transmission mainshaft (male) splines. There's almost no axial movement in this situation.

Bare metal-to-metal power transmission needs some lube for any reasonable longevity.

 

[Fred W]

Way too much worry in this thread.You couldn't strip or wear out those rear hub splines in a billion miles.

Maybe? -- maybe not...?

There have been many documented cases of worn-out dry splines -- in many different applications. The bad splines are charecterized by rust being present and the normally square-shaped splines worn all-pointy-like. Seen, usually, on bikes that are suspected of never having any lube applied since new.

BMWs & MotoGuzzis have been infamous for these kinds of proplems. Way back when the Honda Gold Wing was a new model (GL1000) the first trans-continental "LD" riders actually ruined a few rear-drive-hub splines because no one told them they needed some lube on them.

Although there's no sliding forces along the splines (rear-hub), there is pressure on those splines -- power being transmitted.

Grease is merely (in a general sense) oil captured in a carrier of some sort (to keep it where it, the lube, is supposed to be.

I think in every case those are the drive shaft splines (well familiar with the beemer spline lube deal). Not a wheel mounting "spline".

Yep, BMWs where among the infamous.... The purpose of the spline is to transmit power radially -- any axial movement (if present?) is incidental (not to say that it's to be ignored). Many are the cases of worn-out spline couplings where movement just wasn't an issue. BMW clutch hub splines failed by the thousands because (mainly) there was no grease applied initially. These failures were charecterized by fully-rounded clutch hub (female) splines and half-worn, pointed, transmission mainshaft (male) splines. There's almost no axial movement in this situation.

Bare metal-to-metal power transmission needs some lube for any reasonable longevity.

OK, so I'm confused now. You're saying that the "incidental" movement is what caused the wear on those splines? I mean, I can envision it, so I can see how that might happen, just I never heard that explanation before.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Ya know.. Once whilst shaving my anus, I noticed my "spline" was dry. Slapped a lil aftershave on it :wacko: :blink: :angry03: Nota go idea :fool:

:jester:

Why did I know when I saw the "Topic Subscription Reply Notification" from BJ that this was gonna be about someones anus? :blink:

Dunno, maybe I just love to share my fetish? it's about as relevant ain't it?

:jester:

 

[Low Level FJR Pilot]

I guess I just need to lube and lube often.

Slappy - You're not helping yourself....

There is that little plastic kind of cover or flange on the outer pumkin that I guess is meant to help keep the grease from really making a mess all over the rim but, it still gets out. I haven't had it dry up like you're saying though. Do you ride in the rain a lot (yeah like that happens in SoCal)? Not sure why yours is so dry.

I'd hate to have to pull the rear wheel and relube every couple thousand miles, that's not right.

Man, how did I miss out on this fun. Remember Bluesman, as I said in another Post a while back. He is a Marine, he's used to lubing and lubing often... :blink:

 

[fjr105]

Newbie here

Does any one have pictures or a link to the areas in question that need to be lubed :blink:

 

[Tenchi]

Newbie here
Does any one have pictures or a link to the areas in question that need to be lubed :blink:

Welcome to the forum!

So I don't have a FJR, but you might find this search interesting.

Mark Johnson's FJR site had a result which I think might answer your question.

On his page, look for the picture that looks somewhat like this:

On Mark Johnson's FJR site it has a pretty good piccy of what the splines and shaft drive component look like, and some information on lubing them, as well as what appears to be a scan of the manual (I would hotlink from his site, but that's not a very nice thing to do).

Can I get a second opinion on this that it's correct?

 

[fjr105]

I did find this https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...p;hl=driveshaft

 

[protondecay123]

I did find this https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...p;hl=driveshaft

Nice one. That thread is very confusing.

Try

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?a...st=0#entry90529

 

[rbentnail]

I respectfully disagree. 2 pieces of metal that mesh together, but that do not move relative to each other, will not wear. There must be friction to wear. If there is no relative motion there is no friction, only pressure. Now, it may very well be that there is some other relative motion that I have not accounted for.
My reason for describing the motion of the drive shaft spline was to point out how different that interface is from the one at the rear wheel hub.

My turn to most respectfully disagree, sort of. In terms of mechanical wear you are almost right. Many a crane splined shaft has been "worn down" to pointed splines over time. Pressure will "wear" metals even if it's done by nothing more than slight deformation of a machined surface. Once a defect is formed, however slight it may be, wear has occured and will over time accelerate enough to be eyeball-noticible. Will it happen in a year? Prolly not, but over say 5 years? Maybe.

But there is also corrosion to be considered, which will most certainly occur if metal remains unprotected from the elements as our rear hub gears are. Do a search of "galvanic corrosion". Not in electrical terms describing metals submersed in an electrolytic solution, but in mechanical terms where two even slightly dissimilar metals are simply in contact with each other in the presence of oxygen. Even without any relative motion between the two, one or both of them is going to corrode at a rate much greater than that of of of the metals exposed on its own. This will appear as "wear" but is in fact the removal of material by electrochemical means.

 

[FJRBluesman]

OK guys were picking the fly crap out of the pepper here. All good info though thanks.

Slappy - See that plastic extension around the circumference of the pumpkin, that's what I was talking about that helps keep environmental goo out of the rear pumpkin splines and also helps with keeping the lube goo from spinning out. It still comes out but maybe just slightly detoured.

 

[Fred W]

OK guys were picking the fly crap out of the pepper here. All good info though thanks.

Slappy - See that plastic extension around the circumference of the pumpkin, that's what I was talking about that helps keep environmental goo out of the rear pumpkin splines and also helps with keeping the lube goo from spinning out. It still comes out but maybe just slightly detoured.

In this parts breakdown, I think the part that you're pointing out is reference #24 (p/n 93102-70167-00 on my '05), which I think is the oil seal mating with the ring gear, to keep the gear oil inside the punkin'.

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I just looked through the entire Factory Service Manual and there is no reference to greasing the wheel hub spline that we are discussing. In the rear wheel replacement section they say:

INSTALLING THE REAR WHEEL
1. Lubricate:
• wheel axle
• wheel bearings
• oil seal lips
Recommended lubricant
Lithium soap base grease

But no mention of splines or cogs or anything like the thing we are talking about. I mean, they go into intricate detail about greasing the side-stand and center stand pivots. You'd think if it was important to keep this spline lubed they would at least suggest what to use and how much.

That said, I will continue to lightly lubricate mine with marine grade lithium soap grease. It can't hurt, right?