JustinNck1
Well-known member
Well good thing I am not on a race bike at a race track. I am gonna keep my balanced wheels with my magical non-balancing balancing beads.
Dyna Bead Issue?
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John d
Well-known member
HyperPete
Opinionated curmudgeon
Sure, "better balance" for the first mile, after which the tire begins to wear and the balance is no longer "perfect."
I'll stick to perfection through the life of the tire and my dynamic balance beads.
Bead believes should continue to use their beads, by all means. I would never try and talk anyone out of it if that is what you think works.
But for anyone not already decided, there is absolutely no need to balance a motorcycle wheel with a "dynamic" wheel balancer. Dynamic wheel balance is sometimes needed for automotive applications because you need to balance the lateral (side to side) imbalance as well as the radial (circumferential) imbalance on the wide and heavy tires (darksiders take notice). There is also sometimes a need to road force balance a wheel to compensate for radial run-out of the tire.
Moto tires do not have those problems. The relatively narrow moto tires let you get as near to perfection as you need (or your patience allows) with a simple, static balance stand with free moving bearings. On an inexpensive balance stand I can get it balanced to fractions of a 1/4 oz weight, and have done that just for the experience, but it is certainly not necessary to be that precise. I generally get it to within one 7 gram weight and call it good.
I have never needed to re-balance a moto tire part way through its life, nor have any of my friends whose tires I have helped mount and balance. The only way I see that happening is if the original balance job was sub par, or if you threw a wheel weight, and the resulting imbalance caused the tire to wear unevenly around the circumference.
I have never lost a stick on wheel weight (including riding dual sport bikes off pavement) once I adopted using 3M acrylic foam adhesive tape to stick the weights on the rim. The cheap double sided tape that comes on the wheel weights is not sticky enough, IMO. I also clean both the rim and the weight with "Goof Off" brand solvent to get the best adhesion. The weights stay stuck until you want to remove them with more adhesion than even duct tape will add. And when you pry off the weight the foam tape can also be cleanly scraped off the rim (or weight for later re-use) with a plastic scraper or fingernail.
But for anyone not already decided, there is absolutely no need to balance a motorcycle wheel with a "dynamic" wheel balancer. Dynamic wheel balance is sometimes needed for automotive applications because you need to balance the lateral (side to side) imbalance as well as the radial (circumferential) imbalance on the wide and heavy tires (darksiders take notice). There is also sometimes a need to road force balance a wheel to compensate for radial run-out of the tire.
Moto tires do not have those problems. The relatively narrow moto tires let you get as near to perfection as you need (or your patience allows) with a simple, static balance stand with free moving bearings. On an inexpensive balance stand I can get it balanced to fractions of a 1/4 oz weight, and have done that just for the experience, but it is certainly not necessary to be that precise. I generally get it to within one 7 gram weight and call it good.
I have never needed to re-balance a moto tire part way through its life, nor have any of my friends whose tires I have helped mount and balance. The only way I see that happening is if the original balance job was sub par, or if you threw a wheel weight, and the resulting imbalance caused the tire to wear unevenly around the circumference.
I have never lost a stick on wheel weight (including riding dual sport bikes off pavement) once I adopted using 3M acrylic foam adhesive tape to stick the weights on the rim. The cheap double sided tape that comes on the wheel weights is not sticky enough, IMO. I also clean both the rim and the weight with "Goof Off" brand solvent to get the best adhesion. The weights stay stuck until you want to remove them with more adhesion than even duct tape will add. And when you pry off the weight the foam tape can also be cleanly scraped off the rim (or weight for later re-use) with a plastic scraper or fingernail.
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John d
Well-known member
Top post above here by JustinNck1 clearly says the larger beads don't work as well as smaller beads. To me that says there is a problem with the larger beads or that they don't work 100%. So for people to say beads work, listen to the guy that says they work, sort of, but better than smaller beads. Hmmmmm.....
To say that a tire is no longer balanced perfectly after the first mile with static weights is just plain false. When a tire is properly balanced it will stay balanced for the rest of it's life without issue due to initial balance alone. I have never heard of anybody with that problem unless they had a weight come off, but that can only happen if they were not installed on a clean spot on the wheel. I always have to forcibly pry off my old static weights. I personally have not heard of anyone that actually had a weight come off, I'm not saying it can't happen, it's just extremely rare. If your wheels start to bounce down the road and all your weights are in place, you will have bigger problems than wheel balance.
JustinNck1
Well-known member
Yes, there are different brands. The two main brands, which are DynaBeads and CounterAct are the best for motorcycles. The larger beads, primarily cheap ebay ones, are not the same, hence why there are mixed results. I have seen cheap ebay beads not stick to the tire, and in turn, not balance the wheel. Regardless, you are not going convince someone who likes them to not use them or someone who doesn't like them to use them. I guess that's why this thread is in the never ending pointless section
John d
Well-known member
That is the first I heard that the beads are supposed to stick to the tire. The manufacturers state they work by being free to move to new spots in the tire. Wow, they stick, they don't stick, they sort of balance, my head is spinning! You know what they say. "******** baffles brains" I'm going to need better science, facts, and consistency before I ever go with beads.Yes, there are different brands. The two main brands, which are DynaBeads and CounterAct are the best for motorcycles. The larger beads, primarily cheap ebay ones, are not the same, hence why there are mixed results. I have seen cheap ebay beads not stick to the tire, and in turn, not balance the wheel. Regardless, you are not going convince someone who likes them to not use them or someone who doesn't like them to use them. I guess that's why this thread is in the never ending pointless sectionI have nothing against wheel weights, I have a static balancer, I've done tires both ways of balancing. As fast as these bikes chew up tires, I don't think its that big of a deal either way.
I'm hoping you had a typo there!
Anyways, I'm glad you have nothing against static wheel weights.
JustinNck1
Well-known member
"******** baffles brains", so does misunderstanding. I just try to have a conversation and not be an *** about it. They stick with a static charge, the way they are designed to do once finding the light/heavy spots of the tire.That is the first I heard that the beads are supposed to stick to the tire. The manufacturers state they work by being free to move to new spots in the tire. Wow, they stick, they don't stick, they sort of balance, my head is spinning! You know what they say. "******** baffles brains" I'm going to need better science, facts, and consistency before I ever go with beads.Yes, there are different brands. The two main brands, which are DynaBeads and CounterAct are the best for motorcycles. The larger beads, primarily cheap ebay ones, are not the same, hence why there are mixed results. I have seen cheap ebay beads not stick to the tire, and in turn, not balance the wheel. Regardless, you are not going convince someone who likes them to not use them or someone who doesn't like them to use them. I guess that's why this thread is in the never ending pointless sectionI have nothing against wheel weights, I have a static balancer, I've done tires both ways of balancing. As fast as these bikes chew up tires, I don't think its that big of a deal either way.
I'm hoping you had a typo there!
Anyways, I'm glad you have nothing against static wheel weights.
wheatonFJR
...
I think I saw that on "How things werk!""******** baffles brains", so does misunderstanding. I just try to have a conversation and not be an *** about it. They stick with a static charge, the way they are designed to do once finding the light/heavy spots of the tire.That is the first I heard that the beads are supposed to stick to the tire. The manufacturers state they work by being free to move to new spots in the tire. Wow, they stick, they don't stick, they sort of balance, my head is spinning! You know what they say. "******** baffles brains" I'm going to need better science, facts, and consistency before I ever go with beads.Yes, there are different brands. The two main brands, which are DynaBeads and CounterAct are the best for motorcycles. The larger beads, primarily cheap ebay ones, are not the same, hence why there are mixed results. I have seen cheap ebay beads not stick to the tire, and in turn, not balance the wheel. Regardless, you are not going convince someone who likes them to not use them or someone who doesn't like them to use them. I guess that's why this thread is in the never ending pointless sectionI have nothing against wheel weights, I have a static balancer, I've done tires both ways of balancing. As fast as these bikes chew up tires, I don't think its that big of a deal either way.
I'm hoping you had a typo there!
Anyways, I'm glad you have nothing against static wheel weights.
...or something like it...close enough.
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RossKean
Well-known member
I agree, Fred. I use the spin balancer because I have access to one (with a MC tire adapter accessory) and do not have a static balancer. I have absolutely no issue with a static balance for a MC tire.
ionbeam
2 FUN
I'm confused about normal moisture found in tires, an anti-static stripe molded into the tire's rubber and how there is enough static to attract and hold 40 grams of beads to only one little patch of static electricity that knew where to form itself on the tire carcass. Especially when using ceramic beads.
In one of the several past Dynabead discussions we arrived at the final definitive answer of how they work. Well, maybe not.
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ionbeam
2 FUN
Click on the Edit button in the lower right corner of post #52 then delete any or all of the post.
Let's not do that anymore. Besides you not having the basic chops to do a quote correctly it seems.....it unnecessarily swells the database and hard drive space, wastes bandwidth, breaks the social compact about trimming quotes, and generally irritates your hosts and fellow mobile forum dwellers.
Thanks.
The Management.
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<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="ionbeam" data-cid="1313031" data-time="1464121655"><p><blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'><p>Oops, wrong quote....Too bad there's not a delete option.</p></blockquote>
<br />
Click on the <span style='color: #0000cd'>Edit</span> button in the lower right corner of post #52 then delete any or all of the post.</p></blockquote>
Sorry, I don't see that option. Not on my phone anyway, even going full version.
Management rather I sit in the corner and watch anyway.
<br />
Click on the <span style='color: #0000cd'>Edit</span> button in the lower right corner of post #52 then delete any or all of the post.</p></blockquote>
Sorry, I don't see that option. Not on my phone anyway, even going full version.
Management rather I sit in the corner and watch anyway.
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Not really. If that were the case we'd just suspend your ability to post.....
Quite the contrary, we truly rather you contribute productively to what this forum is about...which is FJRs of course.
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Not sure how you are quoting (or why) kieefjr, but it ain't workin'.
Most of the time it's better not to quote unless needed for context anyway. But even then, it is always best to trim the quote to just the part you are addressing.
And no... I'm not part of management or anything. Just an over zealous user that hates having to scroll more than necessary.
Most of the time it's better not to quote unless needed for context anyway. But even then, it is always best to trim the quote to just the part you are addressing.
And no... I'm not part of management or anything. Just an over zealous user that hates having to scroll more than necessary.
AdamK
Well-known member
Some physics or mechanical engineering grad student somewhere needs to do their dissertation on balancing beads. Would be nice to see some scientific proof on how the beads "know" where to go.
At the place I work at as a structural engineer we use large tanks of water on top of tall (70+ story), slender buildings to counteract motion due to wind. We design the tanks length and depth of water such that the frequency of the wave action matches the natural frequency of the building. When the building starts to move, the water mas begins to slosh at the same frequency of the building, but at the opposite phase of the building. The building motion/acceleration is greatly reduced. But we have to "tune" the tanks to the building by adjusting the water depth. What I don't quite understand is how the beads physically figure out where to end up based on the dynamic motion of the unbalanced wheel and tire??
Someone at the PNW tech day a couple of weeks ago was removing the beads from their front wheel. They said they weren't working. They had previously worked but weren't with the current tire. They were going to static balance the wheel and see if the problem would go away. I don't remember who it was but, if you're lurking here, did the static balance cure the issue?
At the place I work at as a structural engineer we use large tanks of water on top of tall (70+ story), slender buildings to counteract motion due to wind. We design the tanks length and depth of water such that the frequency of the wave action matches the natural frequency of the building. When the building starts to move, the water mas begins to slosh at the same frequency of the building, but at the opposite phase of the building. The building motion/acceleration is greatly reduced. But we have to "tune" the tanks to the building by adjusting the water depth. What I don't quite understand is how the beads physically figure out where to end up based on the dynamic motion of the unbalanced wheel and tire??
Someone at the PNW tech day a couple of weeks ago was removing the beads from their front wheel. They said they weren't working. They had previously worked but weren't with the current tire. They were going to static balance the wheel and see if the problem would go away. I don't remember who it was but, if you're lurking here, did the static balance cure the issue?
mcatrophy
Privileged to ride a 2018 FJR1300AS
There's a demonstration of beads
(has an advert at the beginning, ignore that).
Beads can only work if they are free to move around the tyre. Any stickiness from lubricant, from greasy mechaninc's hands or even condensation (when did you last use dried air to inflate your tyre?) will prevent free movement so they can't work.
Personally I wouldn't use them.
Yamaha fit weights that clip on to the seam at the centre of the rim. Unlike the stck-on ones, these can't fall off easily, centrifugal force will hold them in place. Probably cost more than the usual ones, but ...
(has an advert at the beginning, ignore that).
Beads can only work if they are free to move around the tyre. Any stickiness from lubricant, from greasy mechaninc's hands or even condensation (when did you last use dried air to inflate your tyre?) will prevent free movement so they can't work.
Personally I wouldn't use them.
Yamaha fit weights that clip on to the seam at the centre of the rim. Unlike the stck-on ones, these can't fall off easily, centrifugal force will hold them in place. Probably cost more than the usual ones, but ...
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