Dynamic Wheel Balancers

[Constant Mesh]

Was visiting a local cycle parts retailer yesterday who sells/installs lots of cycle tires. A Parts Unlimited rep was there and I asked what type of wheel balancer was typically used.

Both of the guys said dynamic balancers. They said doing a DB is much quicker and better than a static balance, particularly on the wide rear tires of today's bikes. They said using a balancer such as the Parnes balancer takes too long and you're still left with just a static balance which is marginal on wide rear tires.

This shop installs lots of tires so they want to do the balance quickly but also well. They have a thriving business with lots of repeat customers from the local military base.

 

[quicksilver]

Sounds pretty accurate.

It might be worth noting that static balance is a single plane.

Dynamic balance is two plane.

Static balance can use clip style weights on the center rib, like how it can from the factory.

Dynamic requires placing weights on left and right sides of the wheel. (outer lip or stick-on)

If stick-on weights are used on each side, it is probabaly dynamically balanced.

Static balance can be measured by dead weight or by spinning it up on an active measurement system.

Dynamic balance can only be accurately measured by spinning it up.

So, dead weight "Parnes" or horizontal hanger style can only measure static balance.

Putting it on a "dynamic balancer" does not mean it is being dynamically balanced because they can measure static balance (one plane).

So, the only way to confirm that the tire was dynamically balanced is by looking at where the weights are.

Outer edge of both sides (2 locations, if needed) = dynamic

Center of rim (on or next to the rib)(usually in one location) = static

It would be less confusing if they called it 1-plane and 2-plane balance.

Same goes for car wheels.

 

[HaulinAshe]

This goes in my bucket of "Things that should be true".

In theory, dynamically balancing a tire/wheel should be WAY more accurate. In practice, I've yet to find where even the most modern and costly dynamic balancer at a motorcycle shop, produces as good a result as static balancing at home with my Marc Parnes.

The Marc Parnes method IS slow an tedious, but it works damn great!

BTW, we've been using exactly the same balance method on model aircraft and racing bike parts for years. The balancing devices look like miniature Marc Parnes setups. Nobody has found a better method for balancing those parts (which spin at up to 20,000 RPM) either.

 

[madmike2]

This goes in my bucket of "Things that should be true".
In theory, dynamically balancing a tire/wheel should be WAY more accurate. In practice, I've yet to find where even the most modern and costly dynamic balancer at a motorcycle shop, produces as good a result as static balancing at home with my Marc Parnes.

The Marc Parnes method IS slow an tedious, but it works damn great!

Yep!

Since I have purchased my static balancer (NoMar) I've not experienced an out-of-balance tire. There is nothing more aggravating than finding you have an out of balance tire (done at the dealer with their fancy-shmancy machine) when you are 250 miles from home and pass "at speed".

Never again!! I KNOW my tires are balanced

 

[CHRIS_D]

This goes in my bucket of "Things that should be true".
In theory, dynamically balancing a tire/wheel should be WAY more accurate. In practice, I've yet to find where even the most modern and costly dynamic balancer at a motorcycle shop, produces as good a result as static balancing at home with my Marc Parnes.

The Marc Parnes method IS slow an tedious, but it works damn great!

Yep!

Since I have purchased my static balancer (NoMar) I've not experienced an out-of-balance tire. There is nothing more aggravating than finding you have an out of balance tire (done at the dealer with their fancy-shmancy machine) when you are 250 miles from home and pass "at speed".

Never again!! I KNOW my tires are balanced

How do you like the No-Mar balancer? Do you have their changer too? I should be getting my soon. I will say their stuff is expensive and this is one of reasons I started this whole GB thing. I was also sick of paying for the lousy work that's usually done at the dealers. I once brought my Triumph rim to a dealer to get a tire mounted and they scratched my rim!! Of course I didn't notice it until it was mounted, so I never did bitch.

 

[adaniel]

+1 on everything that's been said on static....even stated in the service manual - static balance.

Static is slow, and as noted by the dealer, not as fast --- $$/hr.

Another good point noted is that often motorcycle tires are made with far superior tolerances than say car tires.

If you were to run over a pot hole, have a boo-boo, or something else that might compromise the rims, I would say that having the assembly checked on a dynamic balancer might be a good idea to ensure you have not done damage to the rim. This of course can be done with time and effort using a dial.

I'm happy with the Parnes balancer, but in the end it's up to each person with regards to happy and smooth riding.

 

[madmike2]

How do you like the No-Mar balancer? Do you have their changer too? I should be getting my soon. I will say their stuff is expensive and this is one of reasons I started this whole GB thing. I was also sick of paying for the lousy work that's usually done at the dealers. I once brought my Triumph rim to a dealer to get a tire mounted and they scratched my rim!! Of course I didn't notice it until it was mounted, so I never did bitch.

Some relationships with dealers are great motivators for buying one's own tools and machines!

1.) I love the balancer. It is similar in function to the Marc Parnes set up but, FOR ME, the complete unit is much easier than setting the jack-stands. That would simply be a matter of taste and choice. B)

2.) Some parts of the NoMar system/technique have never been "mastered" by me. I still use a spoon to get the rear tire mount finished (the last 6" or so). :huh:

3.) If my rims are going to be scratched....I'm going to do it!

4.) Having a tire machine means I can change them at MY convenience. If I want to do so @ 10PM on Friday night, 6 AM on Saturday morning or whenever. I'm not limited to when the dealer is open to take my rims in to have the tires changed. AND I can buy the tires I want and have them on hand (Like I do!)

Secondarily, I usually change my tires before a long trip (like NAFO this year) which means I have "take offs" that dealers will not re-mount. Not any longer! I changed out a set of PRs that only had 3500 miles on them and they are marked (as to where the valve stem was) and can be remounted when the time comes. I figure I've lost enough money in take-off tires over the last 5 years to pay for the tire machine.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Back to the topic at hand:

Jeff is right about the balancing. IF the tire I'm mounting requires enough weight I simply split the weights and stick them on both sides of the rim. But I've never had any problems in testing (on a closed course) them at FJR "passing" speed.

 

[adaniel]

...2.) Some parts of the NoMar system/technique have never been "mastered" by me. I still use a spoon to get the rear tire mount finished (the last 6" or so). :huh:

...

I've tried the bars and found that it's just easier with the spoons. Even the NoMar site shows using spoons (not bars) for the heavyweight cruising tires on things like the Goldwing and FJR's --- low profile, and stiff sidewalls.

A video from NoMar on a Goldwing tire (no bar - spoons): https://www.nomartirechanger.com/video/show/9

Sorry for the digression from the balancing....

 

[RTSR1/FJR]

Been static balancing for 30 yrs, not going to change now! Besides, how much does a dynamic balancer cost? Yeah, right! I've got $20 invested in my 30yr. old balancer. Works just fine! I'll say even better in most cases!

 

[Silent]

Some relationships with dealers are great motivators for buying one's own tools and machines!
1.) I love the balancer. It is similar in function to the Marc Parnes set up but, FOR ME, the complete unit is much easier than setting the jack-stands. That would simply be a matter of taste and choice. B)

2.) Some parts of the NoMar system/technique have never been "mastered" by me. I still use a spoon to get the rear tire mount finished (the last 6" or so). :huh:

3.) If my rims are going to be scratched....I'm going to do it!

4.) Having a tire machine means I can change them at MY convenience. If I want to do so @ 10PM on Friday night, 6 AM on Saturday morning or whenever. I'm not limited to when the dealer is open to take my rims in to have the tires changed. AND I can buy the tires I want and have them on hand (Like I do!)

Secondarily, I usually change my tires before a long trip (like NAFO this year) which means I have "take offs" that dealers will not re-mount. Not any longer! I changed out a set of PRs that only had 3500 miles on them and they are marked (as to where the valve stem was) and can be remounted when the time comes. I figure I've lost enough money in take-off tires over the last 5 years to pay for the tire machine.

My exact thoughts and feelings! (except for #2. Harbor Freight )

I've never had a bad ballance using a MP static gravity ballancer, and the bility to reballance at the drop of a hat should your tire weights fall off is priceless B)

 

[jekirby]

It wasn't that long ago that tire manufacturers just had you line up the light spot of the tire with the valve stem and that was it....no balancing. Motorcycle tires are not too hard to balance and I would think that wide means those extremely wide tires on hard tales and such. The FJR tire/rim is not that wide. I can see that the static balances can be almost as fast as a dynamic--if you know when 'good enough' is good enough.

 

[HaulinAshe]

For me, good enough is when I'm down to 1/2 of one weight segment (1/8 oz.).

 

[madmike2]

For me, good enough is when I'm down to 1/2 of one weight segment (1/8 oz.).

Yep! If it requires better than that.....I need to slow down!

 

[big ears]

Anyone try the harbor freight tire changer.

 

[CHRIS_D]

Anyone try the harbor freight tire changer.

NOOOOO............You must buy a No-Mar changer from my group buy by Wednesday. If you buy a Harbor Freight it will self destruct when you try to change your first tire. I'm not kidding besides I'm only thinking of your safety because I'm a motorcycle saftey instructor and I'm here to help :dribble: :dribble:

 

[Silent]

Anyone try the harbor freight tire changer.

I own one, and use it. I did do a couple modifications to make it work better.

1 - Bolt it to the ground (some bolt to a sheet of plywood, but drop in anchors work alot better)

2 - Drill a thru hole for the MC adapter screw (spins otherwise making removing the tire harder)

3 - Have a C-clamp on hand to aid in the tire change. (I clamp the tire to keep it in the center so I can get the mojo lever in the other side)

Works well and no complaints.

 

[madmike2]

Anyone try the harbor freight tire changer.

A number of forum members use the Harbor Freight changer...most have made some modifications.

3 - Have a C-clamp on hand to aid in the tire change. (I clamp the tire to keep it in the center so I can get the mojo lever in the other side)

I use a couple of the woodworking clamps, the kind you merely squeeze the handle (with a release lever). They have wider jaws and compress and release easily.