JAB
Well-known member
Yes you are correct, I applogize for stirring things up. I am relieved that I was wrong on this!
E15 is here next year
- Thread starter JAB
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I don't think that E85 can be dispensed in blender pumps. We don't have it anywhere in the northeast anyway, so it's a non-issue unless we are travelling in the corn belt states.
I would love for them to have all variations of fuel available (in non-blender pumps) and let the market and sales dictate which ones they continue to carry. I'm pretty sure we all know and agree on which blend that will be.
Some enterprising person should start printing and selling bumper stickers:
"Keep the corn for the hogs.
E zero for me!"
I would love for them to have all variations of fuel available (in non-blender pumps) and let the market and sales dictate which ones they continue to carry. I'm pretty sure we all know and agree on which blend that will be.
Some enterprising person should start printing and selling bumper stickers:
"Keep the corn for the hogs.
E zero for me!"
ionbeam
2 FUN
Fill 'er up!
Until fuel cells are ready for prime time gas stations need to start installing bays with these. It'll give the fellers up to an hour of wandering around the mini mart buying stuff they didn't know they needed while the car quietly feeds.
Until fuel cells are ready for prime time gas stations need to start installing bays with these. It'll give the fellers up to an hour of wandering around the mini mart buying stuff they didn't know they needed while the car quietly feeds.
If you put a bar in that fillin' station you might be on to sumpin'
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
Some of you probably remember the old Sunoco blender pumps. You could dial it in over a wide range, with several stops (sort of like heated grips
).
Remember 'em? We still got 'em here.
If you select the lowest grade you are always getting the best deal.
If you select the lowest grade you are always getting the best deal.
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
We haven't seen them down here in years. Certainly the best deal was at the lower end.
We don't have blender pumps here for ethanol blends either. Most places just sell E10. Several places sell E10 and E0. A few places sell nothing but E0. And then there are the oddballs who sell E85 and BioWillie. BioWillie is actually a blend of regular Diesel with vegetable oil thrown in as filler.
I used to run an IC Engines lab, and I had a 3 cylinder Daihatsu Diesel set up with two tanks ... one with Diesel fuel, and the other with corn oil bought from the grocery store.
You could start and run on either fuel.
Some people like to think that biofuel smells like popcorn or french fries ... but it doesn't. Corn oil and Diesel smell about the same to most noses. If you smell french fries it could be because you got the oil from old frier vats and you're smelling the particulate matter as it combusts.
We don't have blender pumps here for ethanol blends either. Most places just sell E10. Several places sell E10 and E0. A few places sell nothing but E0. And then there are the oddballs who sell E85 and BioWillie. BioWillie is actually a blend of regular Diesel with vegetable oil thrown in as filler.
I used to run an IC Engines lab, and I had a 3 cylinder Daihatsu Diesel set up with two tanks ... one with Diesel fuel, and the other with corn oil bought from the grocery store.
You could start and run on either fuel.
Some people like to think that biofuel smells like popcorn or french fries ... but it doesn't. Corn oil and Diesel smell about the same to most noses. If you smell french fries it could be because you got the oil from old frier vats and you're smelling the particulate matter as it combusts.
Yeah, I think that what some of the greenies do, is buy the waste oil from the big french fry pushers, run it through a (coffee?) filter and then burn it in their VW Jetta.
Then they wonder why they have all the stoners with the munchies following them around town.
Then they wonder why they have all the stoners with the munchies following them around town.
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
Ten years ago I had a student who converted his VW to run waste vegetable oil from local restaurants, and from the university cafeteria.
It was unreliable in fuel injectors, and it was not unusual for him to call to inform me that he would not be reporting for work because of fuel related engine failure.
Many students were interested in the idea of getting free fuel, but as soon as several people are looking for waste oil, it tends to go up in price from free to something greater than free.
I used to tell the students to think about supply and demand in this way. 1. How much waste vegetable oil is produced in the course of a normal day based on your diet. 2. How much Diesel do you need to meet your transportation needs on a daily basis.
Since the answer to 1 was nearly always "a few ounces" and the answer to 2 was nearly always "at least half a gallon", even the most math challenged students could understand that large scale use of waste cooking oil as fuel for the general population isn't likely to be feasible.
The idea hardly ever comes up anymore.
It was unreliable in fuel injectors, and it was not unusual for him to call to inform me that he would not be reporting for work because of fuel related engine failure.
Many students were interested in the idea of getting free fuel, but as soon as several people are looking for waste oil, it tends to go up in price from free to something greater than free.
I used to tell the students to think about supply and demand in this way. 1. How much waste vegetable oil is produced in the course of a normal day based on your diet. 2. How much Diesel do you need to meet your transportation needs on a daily basis.
Since the answer to 1 was nearly always "a few ounces" and the answer to 2 was nearly always "at least half a gallon", even the most math challenged students could understand that large scale use of waste cooking oil as fuel for the general population isn't likely to be feasible.
The idea hardly ever comes up anymore.
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It only works only when not many other people are trying to do it.
Or you eat a **** ton of french fries.
Or you eat a **** ton of french fries.
Pterodactyl
Well-known member
gixxerjasen
Well-known member
I explained this to my father in law when he got his current vehicle. He came home proud of how little it cost to fill his tank. When he saw his mileage when he hit empty he did the math, and filled up with regular gas.
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
Here's another one.
If you've got one bucket that holds 2 gallons and another bucket that holds 5 gallons, how many buckets do you have?
If you get it right, you're the smartest guy in the world (in 2505).
gixxerjasen
Well-known member
Gallons of what?
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
gixxerjasen
Well-known member
Oh, then three.
El Toro
Innocent Bystander
No worries. Not Sure is still the smartest (I know some of you have seen Idiocracy). Although you've got the most Chittlin's.
hppants
Well-known member
I've run the numbers several times in my cages for E-0 gas v/s E-10 gas. At least right now for here, it's a wash.
On the 2003 Silverado, E-0 gets 16-16.5 mpg, verses 14.5-15.0 for the crap-o-Nol. So between 7 and 13%, call it 10% average. E-0 cost $0.20 cheaper currently ($1.99 v/s $1.79), or right at 11%
The numbers for the 2008 CR-v are very similar, about a wash.
For the 2007 Yamaha 90hp 2-stroke outboard, surprisingly, the E-10 gets about the same mileage but admittedly in the case of the boat, there are way too many variables to validate the test.
I haven't tried it on any of my motorcycles yet, including my current 2014 Fjr
If the E-0 was as convenient to purchase as the crap, I'd do it purely on a matter of principle.
On the 2003 Silverado, E-0 gets 16-16.5 mpg, verses 14.5-15.0 for the crap-o-Nol. So between 7 and 13%, call it 10% average. E-0 cost $0.20 cheaper currently ($1.99 v/s $1.79), or right at 11%
The numbers for the 2008 CR-v are very similar, about a wash.
For the 2007 Yamaha 90hp 2-stroke outboard, surprisingly, the E-10 gets about the same mileage but admittedly in the case of the boat, there are way too many variables to validate the test.
I haven't tried it on any of my motorcycles yet, including my current 2014 Fjr
If the E-0 was as convenient to purchase as the crap, I'd do it purely on a matter of principle.
MCRIDER007
Well-known member
When you say that using E-0 vs E10 is a wash it appears you are talking about cost per mile. However, your assertion that there is a 10 percent difference in the miles traveled per galleon would also suggest that the E10 has zero energy, or contributes zero to the E-0 it s added to. If so, then how does one explain how the E85 works at all?
I don't buy the argument that 9 galleons of E-0 will take you as far as 10 galleons of E10 but I have heard that argument many times.
My understanding is that ethanol has 70 percent the energy of gasoline so one would expect that a 10 percent concentration would result in a 3 percent energy loss per tank, or about 1-1.5 mpg on a FJR.
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hppants
Well-known member
I don't understand what you are writing.
My personal comparison test are purely from a cost of fuel per mile on my own engines. In my own test, considering the current cost of fuel in my city, and my own differences in mileage observed under two separate and complete tanks of fuel, driving under similar conditions, there is no appreciable difference in cost of the either fuel.
None of the owners manuals for my engines reccomend anything greater than E-10, so in the absence of any mandate, I won't be running any test comparisons on the E-15
My personal comparison test are purely from a cost of fuel per mile on my own engines. In my own test, considering the current cost of fuel in my city, and my own differences in mileage observed under two separate and complete tanks of fuel, driving under similar conditions, there is no appreciable difference in cost of the either fuel.
None of the owners manuals for my engines reccomend anything greater than E-10, so in the absence of any mandate, I won't be running any test comparisons on the E-15
