ECU Differences '07, '08, '09 ??

[Lew]

I am looking for the facts on the physical and firmware differences among the AE versions of the '07, '08, '09 ECU's and YCCS controllers.

I am told by Rob at Cucamonga Yamaha that they are very different.

My '07 AE has an evil throttle (jerky and totally inconsistant). I would like to upgrade if it is possible.

I don't get excited about piggy back ECU controllers such as the Power Commander.

I did a PC with custom tuning on my SV650S and got good throttle response at the expense of a severe hit on mileage.

 

[UselessPickles]

I know that at least from '06 to '08, the the ECU connector is the same and all the ECU pins carry the same signals. I know this because I had to do some wiring diagram comparisons between an '07 shop manual (which also covers '06) and an '08 shop manual when I getting ready to slice and dice my ECU wiring install my Motty AFR Tuner on my '08 (he only had a wiring diagram for an '06).

It would be pretty safe to assume that it is also the same for '09. Any changes would be in the firmware logic and lookup tables (for ignition timing, fuel injection, etc) in the ECU. The ECUs from each year should be interchangeable, so that you could get the "behavior" of an '09 on your '07. The only possible complication would be if some sensor is different between the years in that they measure the same thing and communicate to the same ECU pin (such as intake temperature), but provide the measured value to the ECU in a different format (e.g., sensor has a range of 0-5V in one year, but a range of -5 to +5v in another year). My guess is that this would be unlikely, but I'm no expert

BTW - the performance of piggy-back systems that modify fuel injection all depends on how it is tuned. For example, I have my Motty setup to run a bit lean in some primary cruising areas for fuel economy, but richer everywhere else for smooth power delivery. I've been getting 40-42 MPG with mixed highway and suburban surface street riding with frequent use of 50+% throttle during acceleration .

 

[Beamer Reamer]

Lew,

I did read your post about not liking the idea of a power commander or some such device. However, the PC made an INCREDIBLE difference for my 07 AE. That jerky/froggy feeling especially at low speed while trying to gently pick up the throttle was completely resolved. Even my pillion who is oblivious to such things remarked on what a difference it made. I know it's spendy, but I can't over emphasize the difference it made. There are several maps you can try and you can even edit your own to balance fuel economy with power. For mine, I made the first 2500 RPM super smooth and everything there-after in a more power mode. I am thinking of changing this to make it more efficient to the first 3000 RPM since when I hammer the throttle, it is always at a higher RPM than that...

Good luck. I love the AE, but only after I backed off the throttle return spring and put in the PowerCommander.

Hope it works out and that you can exorcise the evil throttle.

 

[Lew]

I know that at least from '06 to '08, the the ECU connector is the same and all the ECU pins carry the same signals. I know this because I had to do some wiring diagram comparisons between an '07 shop manual (which also covers '06) and an '08 shop manual when I getting ready to slice and dice my ECU wiring install my Motty AFR Tuner on my '08 (he only had a wiring diagram for an '06).
It would be pretty safe to assume that it is also the same for '09. Any changes would be in the firmware logic and lookup tables (for ignition timing, fuel injection, etc) in the ECU. The ECUs from each year should be interchangeable, so that you could get the "behavior" of an '09 on your '07. The only possible complication would be if some sensor is different between the years in that they measure the same thing and communicate to the same ECU pin (such as intake temperature), but provide the measured value to the ECU in a different format (e.g., sensor has a range of 0-5V in one year, but a range of -5 to +5v in another year). My guess is that this would be unlikely, but I'm no expert

BTW - the performance of piggy-back systems that modify fuel injection all depends on how it is tuned. For example, I have my Motty setup to run a bit lean in some primary cruising areas for fuel economy, but richer everywhere else for smooth power delivery. I've been getting 40-42 MPG with mixed highway and suburban surface street riding with frequent use of 50+% throttle during acceleration .

Thanks for the info! Your data confirms my own thinking as Yamaha is not likely to change any more than they have to. My one sensor concern is the Throttle Position Sensor as a different profile on that sensor would help the evil throttle response. Changing the throttle actuator cam profile did not make any significant improvement on my '07.

Does anyone know if the TPS is the same on the Gen II's??

I suspect there may be some mods to the YCCS controller to smooth out the clutch take-up. That is a possibility for the '09 as Yamaha braggs about a smoother clutch operation. Again, likely firmware but hardware or sensor changes could have been made. However, the commentary of the Power Commander users indicates that the ECU may be reprogrammed to fix the issue without touching the YCCS controller. A comparison of part numbers could settle the concept of any difference in the YCCS controllers.

Does anyone have access to the part number assignment for the '07, '08, & '09 YCCS controllers?

As always, information/data rules.

Cheers! B)

 

[Anthony]

Since we are so close, you can always test ride mine to see if they vary.

 

[Lew]

I did find some part numbers:

ECU:

3P6-8591A-23-00 for 2007

3P6-8591A-60-00 for 2008

3P6-8591A-A0-00 for 2009

I don't know for sure, but Yamaha has a "Motor Control Unit" that I think is the YCCS controller.

Can someone verify my assumption??

MCU:

2D2-86510-10-00 for 2007

2D2-86510-20-00 for 2008

2D2-86510-30-00 for 2009

Since the main body of the part number is the same for all 3 years of the Gen II's, the dash number changes are probably internal changes such as firmware.

The pricier of the two controllers is the MCU and the specific prices vary by year, but the sum of the two controllers is approximately $1650 at Cycle Parts Warehouse.

If I could find the two units for about half of the above prices, I would probably try substituting the 2009 units in my 2007.

Cheers!

 

[johnny80s]

I did find some part numbers:ECU:

3P6-8591A-23-00 for 2007

3P6-8591A-60-00 for 2008

3P6-8591A-A0-00 for 2009

I don't know for sure, but Yamaha has a "Motor Control Unit" that I think is the YCCS controller.

Can someone verify my assumption??

MCU:

2D2-86510-10-00 for 2007

2D2-86510-20-00 for 2008

2D2-86510-30-00 for 2009

Since the main body of the part number is the same for all 3 years of the Gen II's, the dash number changes are probably internal changes such as firmware.

The pricier of the two controllers is the MCU and the specific prices vary by year, but the sum of the two controllers is approximately $1650 at Cycle Parts Warehouse.

If I could find the two units for about half of the above prices, I would probably try substituting the 2009 units in my 2007.

Cheers!

Talk with Gary McCoy at Mondak Motorsports. He gives forum members insane deals on parts.

Gary McCoy 866-433-6635

[email protected]

 

[Lew]

Since we are so close, you can always test ride mine to see if they vary.

Anthony: From what I have read and experienced, the jerky, inconsistant throttle is the nature of the '06 & '07 AE's. If you think you have an exception, I would like to try it.

One issue for me with the FJR's is the combo of heavy and tall as I have a 28 in. inseam. I had mine lowered by Race Tech in Corona.

I have my FJR in the shop at Cucamonga Yamaha for the '600' mile service (mine has 1300 miles on it) where I have asked them to check the throttle and drive line lash/snatch.

They will be incorporating the bullitens as appropriate. I am hoping it is a bit smoother when I get it back....although I have but little faith. Getting the slack out of the throttle and lubing the cables should help some.

Rob didn't think there is anything he can do for the drive line snatch.

The combo of jerky throttle and drive line slop equals a bucking bronco....sigh.

Cheers!

 

[johnny80s]

All the 06s and 07s have an abrupt throttle not just the AE model. The G2 takes care of most of it. Yamaha change the tube on the 08s and 09s.

 

[UselessPickles]

The pricier of the two controllers is the MCU and the specific prices vary by year, but the sum of the two controllers is approximately $1650 at Cycle Parts Warehouse.
If I could find the two units for about half of the above prices, I would probably try substituting the 2009 units in my 2007.

Cheers!

If your goal is smoother throttle control, then you can get it for less by purchasing a Power Commander V plus the AutoTune module (I think someone recently paid less than $700 for both) that allows you to customize the tuning yourself in terms of air fuel ratios. Then you can control what areas are leaned out for fuel efficiency and how much without paying for custom tuning, and it will automatically adjust itself if you do any exhaust or intake mods. You can find your own balance of smoothness vs. fuel efficiency that you like, and even switch to a configuration more biased toward economy for long trips.

Upgrading to the 2009 stock controllers may give some improvements, but they are still limited by emissions requirements, so it won't be the best that it could be in terms of smooth throttle control and throttle response.

Or if you really want to be different and enjoy cutting perfectly good wiring, you could go with the Motty AFR Tuner like I did (before PCV and AutoTune existed). It gives similar AFR-based auto-tuning as the PCV+AutoTune, but also includes a built-in data logger (useful for discovering which areas to lean out for cruising efficiency) and has a higher resolution map for more precise tuning. I think I got mine for about $640.

 

[dwhartwell]

All the 06s and 07s have an abrupt throttle not just the AE model. The G2 takes care of most of it. Yamaha change the tube on the 08s and 09s.

No, they did not change the tube on the 08. Same part number. Don't know about the 09. I suspect that the cam on the throttle bodies was where the change was made.

I still get bit once in awhile with the 07 abrupt throttle response.

 

[Lew]

All the 06s and 07s have an abrupt throttle not just the AE model. The G2 takes care of most of it. Yamaha change the tube on the 08s and 09s.

Johnny80s': Please clarify what you mean by "G2" and "tube"!

Thanks!

 

[Lew]

All the 06s and 07s have an abrupt throttle not just the AE model. The G2 takes care of most of it. Yamaha change the tube on the 08s and 09s.

No, they did not change the tube on the 08. Same part number. Don't know about the 09. I suspect that the cam on the throttle bodies was where the change was made.

I still get bit once in awhile with the 07 abrupt throttle response.

I cannot find the part number for the cam at the throttle body assembly as the aftermarket fische does not call it out specifically. However, the entire throttle body assembly has the same part number for both 2008 and 2009 AE's. And the 2007 model TBA has the same base part number (3P6-13750) with a different dash number than the '08 & '09. The Throttle Sensor Assembly (TPS) is the same for all three years. Therefore, something is different on the '08 & '09 TBA's and it could be the cam profile as well as many other things.

If someone has access to a more detailed fische of the throttle body assembly, perhaps we could ascertain any differences is actuator cam.

I did put in an aftermarket "tube" with different (slower onset) cam profile and there is not much difference.

Cheers!

 

[johnny80s]

All the 06s and 07s have an abrupt throttle not just the AE model. The G2 takes care of most of it. Yamaha change the tube on the 08s and 09s.

Johnny80s': Please clarify what you mean by "G2" and "tube"!

Thanks!

G2 = G2 Throttle tube

tube = Throttle tube

 

[Lew]

Safety Issue!!!

The awful combination of abrupt throttle, abrupt clutch, and drive line slop is likely to get someone killed.

I came to a blind intersection at the top of a hill where I needed to turn left: with oncoming traffic I had to stop at the top of the hill.

Upon trying to accelerate from a stop whille making a hurried left turn, I got into the 'bucking bronco' mode which put me in severe danger.

I purchased my '07 FJR1300AE with a mere 869 miles on it. There is evidence of crash damage as the clutch cover plate and surroundings are gouged and scraped.

Reportedly, the previous owner was a Yamaha rep.

That he unloaded (in both senses) the bike speaks volumes.

Now that I am sensitized, I am amazed at how often I have to make hurried, accelerate-from-stop-while-turning manuevers.

My daughter is an attorney, but I hope she doesn't have to tend to my estate any time soon.

 

[SCRider]

Safety Issue!!!
The awful combination of abrupt throttle, abrupt clutch, and drive line slop is likely to get someone killed.

I came to a blind intersection at the top of a hill where I needed to turn left: with oncoming traffic I had to stop at the top of the hill.

Upon trying to accelerate from a stop whille making a hurried left turn, I got into the 'bucking bronco' mode which put me in severe danger.

I purchased my '07 FJR1300AE with a mere 869 miles on it. There is evidence of crash damage as the clutch cover plate and surroundings are gouged and scraped.

Reportedly, the previous owner was a Yamaha rep.

That he unloaded (in both senses) the bike speaks volumes.

Now that I am sensitized, I am amazed at how often I have to make hurried, accelerate-from-stop-while-turning manuevers.

My daughter is an attorney, but I hope she doesn't have to tend to my estate any time soon.

I know that Yamaha made some improvements on the '08 throttle cam but they didn't go far enough IMHO. Mine still has way too abrupt throttle control near closed throttle. I really have to be careful getting back on the throttle coming out of a turn, especially when the road is wet. I've done the "poor man's G2 mod" by modifying the stock throttle tube and that helped some but it's still too sensitive for me. I can't imagine what the 06 and 07's are like! I may have go the PCIII (or V) route myself one day.

Link to G2

 

[Lew]

I know that Yamaha made some improvements on the '08 throttle cam but they didn't go far enough IMHO. Mine still has way too abrupt throttle control near closed throttle. I really have to be careful getting back on the throttle coming out of a turn, especially when the road is wet. I've done the "poor man's G2 mod" by modifying the stock throttle tube and that helped some but it's still too sensitive for me. I can't imagine what the 06 and 07's are like! I may have go the PCIII (or V) route myself one day.
Link to G2

I have the G2. Can't say it made a lot of difference.

I just had the throttle bodies sync'd, the cables lubed and the slop removed, along with the Yamaha bullitens (ECM, Ign sw, etc.).

It is definitely better but still touchy off the line.

If your '08 is still abrupt, maybe I should go direct to the PC.

The drive line snatch/lash aggrevates the bucking bronco.

Yamaha needs to put the best Engineers on that lash to keep from getting behind the throttle and bucking. Neither cool nor safe!

Cheers!

 

[Shadow]

Yamaha change the tube on the 08s and 09s.

No, they did not change the tube on the 08. Same part number. Don't know about the 09. I suspect that the cam on the throttle bodies was where the change was made.

that is correct

 

[buf2phx]

Aren't the ECU and YCCS modules flash programmabe?? I just assumed they would be, and was going to ask the dealer if they could update the YCCS with the 09 cals. I'm a tech at a Caddy/Hummer dealer, and you'd be amazed at the number of complaints we address by simply reprogramming one of the 20+ modules that control virtually everything on the vehicle.

Mike