Engine Didn't Grenade/Something Happened/And Final Report

[Fred W]

First off, I didnt say empty the fuel and restart it. I said fix the fuel leak (meaning the leaking injector) and put it back together. But, I forgot about the reported metal in the oil. How much are we talking about in this case? And if course, where did it come from?

Hydro lock can be devastating to an engine, even one that is not running when it happens. It was a relatively common occurrence on old carbureted engines if the petcock was left on and the float bowl was gummed up. One cylinder fills with fuel. Thumb the electric starter and... crunch! I hope that isnt the case, but only further inspection will tell.

 

[Brodie]

I cant see how a fuel injector can put out enough volume of fuel that it can fill a cylinder sufficient to create said hydraulic lock on a spinning engine. There is only so much fuel that can flow through that nozzle. I dont see liquid building up inside with that exhaust valve opening and allowing the extra rich mixture to be blown and/or scavenged out. Now if the injector were still puking fuel when the engine stopped, perhaps with the intake valve opened, then it may happen. Its not like a petcock was left open overnight. It will be very interesting to see just what the root cause for this incident turns out to be.

Brodie

 

[Fred W]

Consider this scenario: Fuel injector #2 sticks open while running. This floods #2 and fuel pressure drops in fuel rail stalling engine.

Subsequent attempts to restart (key off/on) keep charging the fuel rail only to dump its contents into #2 cylinder. Once enough fluid builds up in cylinder #2 its hydro locked.

Whether damage happened from spinning starter with hydro lock is yet to be seen.

 

[HotRodZilla]

2: FJR cylinders were never steel lined. They have always had the ceramic composite. I'm under the impression that hasn't changed for the newer model years, as the engine is the same, but it's possible. Since I have an '07, there's little reason for me to be too concerned about how the new engines are built....

HRZ, you know I hate arguing with you, however ...

I quote from the model matrix:

New for 2013...

The engine's cylinders feature a liner-less design with direct plating to the cylinder wall for superior heat dissipation.

A reference to a 2007 with cylinder liner damage, with pictures clearly showing the liner, I reproduce one:[img=[URL="https://thumbsnap.com/s/Ah2ZeyUy.jpg%5D"]https://thumbsnap.com/s/Ah2ZeyUy.jpg][/URL]

An Australian review that gives a brief model history, and I quote:

The bike would remain relatively unchanged ... with 2013 to see the Gen-III model released.The Gen-III featured new fairings,

...

ENGINE

Tweaks to Yamaha’s venerable 1298cc inline-four have improved efficiency and delivery, and include ...

...

Also adopted are sleeveless bores similar to Yamaha’s sportsbike engines. Removing the liner and combining advanced honing processes with a nickel blend metal imbedded with hard silicon carbide particles results in a super smooth finish that improves oil retention with excellent sliding characteristics for the pistons.

No liner also reduces engine weight and improves temperature control meaning reduced friction, oil consumption and engine wear. Power is 145hp at 8500rpm, while torque is 125Nm at 6000rpm, with a five-speed transmission transmitting power through the shaft final drive.

Like you, when all is well, it doesn't matter to me how it's made, but it might be relevant to the "grenaded" engine this thread is about.

Right. I understand they did away with the Ceramic Liners, but now they ate using direct plating to plate the walls. Which to me, means these are not built like old Ford and GM engines with the piston rings conforming to the bare steel walls of a cylinder. Yamaha is still using a process to harden the face of the wall. Either way, that doesn't matter because the broken engine is from a 2007, which has the ceramic liners.

I think you and I are each saying the right thing, just picturing it differently.

 

[Uncle Hud]

Fred W posted: Consider this scenario: Fuel injector #2 sticks open while running. This floods #2 and fuel pressure drops in fuel rail stalling engine.
Subsequent attempts to restart (key off/on) keep charging the fuel rail only to dump its contents into #2 cylinder. Once enough fluid builds up in cylinder #2 its hydro locked.

Whether damage happened from spinning starter with hydro lock is yet to be seen.

Read this and became curious ... 1300cc in-line four => 325 cc per cylinder => about 3/4 of a half-liter water bottle.

If cylinder #2 is completely full of gasoline ... well, that's less than 0.1 gallons, and that "loss of fuel" probably isn't noticeable anywhere unless the spark plug is removed and the engine turned over, as related by our buddy russperry.

Because I don't know: Would the pistons, piston rings, or valves be affected by continuous soaking in gasoline? That's different from them encountering the hot gas/air mixture from fuel injectors, right?

 

[RossKean]

"Metal in the oil" is all I would have to know to decide where I'm going from here - although curiosity would mandate that I tear it down to see what happened. Two choices and I would start on one of them and worry about the post-mortem later. Sounds like there is quite possibly significant damage and a lot of work might be needed just to find out whether it could be brought back. How much work do you want to do on an engine with 104,000 miles on it?

If the bike is in overall good shape, I would buy a low-miles motor like the one I posted in Post #18. $969.53 puts a 11,763 mile motor on your doorstep and a couple days later, you're back in business.

If you want something newer, lots of decent used bikes out there.

Good luck!

 

[Bounce]

OK, so the title of this thread was a little dramatic.

Would you like it to be updated?

 

[Intech]

Bounce - No thanks. I like the dramatic intonation.

Fred - The engine stalled while running at about 40 MPH. Subsequent attempt to start it resulted in no engine rotation, hence the fear the engine had seized.

Ross - "Metal in the oil" doesn't give me much hope that the engine is worth repairing or even repairable. At this point I would just like to know what happened. Still looking at replacement engines. The rest of the bike is solid.

My brother was busy yesterday picking out a Golden Retriever puppy, so I doubt he did any work on the engine.

 

[RossKean]

Ross - "Metal in the oil" doesn't give me much hope that the engine is worth repairing or even repairable. At this point I would just like to know what happened. Still looking at replacement engines. The rest of the bike is solid.

I expect that the eBay one I linked is still available because it is an "AE" but it (apparently) isn't a huge deal to convert with a few new or donor parts from the old one. (At least based upon JamesK's thread.) I'm sure you have the knowledge (and guts) to make it happen. Of course, if you can fine a comparable deal with a "A" engine, so much the better. On the surface, it looks like a great price given the low mileage - especially with shipping included. As with anything used, you're taking a chance but at least these guys guarantee the engine with 30 day return policy.

Don't need to say it but make sure that all is right with the fuel rail (and injectors) from your donor engine in case a leaky injector was the root cause!! Good luck!

 

[NBB]

Would it be worth the couple of bucks to send in some of the contaminated oil to Blackstone as I believe they are able to identify where the metal came from.

But then again the teardown will should tell you most of the story.

 

[Bounce]

Bounce - No thanks. I like the dramatic intonation.

Drama's fine but think of the FJR reputation... I changed it (but only a little).

 

[mech 1 twa]

Rod bearing spun. Upper and lower are 2 parts. Only have a little tang that holds them on rod. Hot engine will be seized after it cools engine will turn again. Metal in oil bearing.

I don';t think an injector could flow that much fuel to lock a running engine. We'll see.

 

[Fred W]

If the rod bearing spun, why would fuel gush out of the #2 cylinder plug hole?

 

[Hornet Pilot]

Any update on this drama???

 

[Intech]

The motorcycle is now in my garage. I am going to put it back together and do some testing. I don't think there is any engine damage.

 

[RossKean]

Wow! Waiting to hear what happened...

 

[Hornet Pilot]

Wow! WTF????

 

[Spook]

The motorcycle is now in my garage. I am going to put it back together and do some testing. I don't think there is any engine damage.

so it just fixed itself? we needs to know what was found.

 

[Bounce]

If it was magically fixed, then a subject edit will be needed.

 

[Geezer]

If it was magically fixed, then a subject edit will be needed.

Once in a while a grenade fails to explode.