Epic F**K up, Now what?

[superfuzz]

Don't be so hasty. Patience is your friend. Keep fishing around.

If the damn thing went down in there you should be able to bring it back out the same way it went in, but you'll need to be patient and not freak out.

But definitely check everywhere else around the bike to be sure it isn't hiding elsewhere.

Gunny Fred W.
Are you sure it didn't fall here? This area above the clutch, behind the idle screw, is kind of flat with some minor contours but it could be laying there waiting for a magnet to pick it up. All sorts of things hide there, rocks, dirt, bugs, washers, nuts, ingin' Joe and Becky. So look there too, look on top of things below the CCT. I've found many of my tools there that I dropped.

View from above CCT.

Also look around throttle bodies, below, head, etc. Were you on the upper or lower CCT screw when you lost it? Did it make a lot of tinking sounds going down, or did it sound like it hit the ground? If you lost site of it, the sounds can be critical in where it went.

Trying to exhaust other avenues for you.

I certain it is none of those place, especially my pants.

 

[superfuzz]

It's the other half of this little ******* that has ruined it for me

 

[beemerdons]

superfuzz, you have some really sharp FJR Guys living very close to you! Before you panic and go to a Dealer, I would send a PM to these Gentlemen and direct them to this thread: 1) Niehart - Dave B., 2) ahchiu - Marcus and 3) Panman - Kevin.

They are all locals within 50 miles of Gig Harbor, they could advise you of a trustworthy Yamaha mechanic. They may also have some good tricks up their sleeves, for extracting "the little *******"! Niehart worked at the Indian Moto Factory in 1937!

 

[superfuzz]

Also look around throttle bodies, below, head, etc. Were you on the upper or lower CCT screw when you lost it? Did it make a lot of tinking sounds going down, or did it sound like it hit the ground? If you lost site of it, the sounds can be critical in where it went.

Trying to exhaust other avenues for you.

It made a hollow *tink* *slide* sound that was exactly what I would imagine from it hitting that case and going in. Of course, I had the bike on the side stand to make the right side easier to see so it would have slid right down. Definitely not the ping ping ping that a wrench makes when it hit concrete floor. I did a thorough search of the work area but I was out in the middle of the garage and there wouldn't be anywhere to hide anyway. Searched the outside of the bike really well as I was putting some stuff back together, no dice.

 

[TomInPA]

If it actually did fall into the clutch area, you may not be totally screwed. The rear balancer and clutch are all removable without removing the engine. I would think that by the time you have the balancer and clutch basket out, you should be able to see a part of this size, or at least have a good shot at extracting it. It is described in the service manual, and I'm sure some of the more mechanically inclined members on this forum could relate some experience of having been in this area of the bike.

If you want to investigate further, I would start a new thread with a title like "Seeking Info on Removing Balancers, Clutch Basket or Crankcase" and see who shows up to help.

 

[olsonm3915]

There's a lot you can do before taking the engine out, or even taking the pan off. I would for sure look at taking off the clutch, that's a piece of cake, and you've got nothing to lose but a little time. Also, try a different magnet onna stick and/or a borescope. If there is a big enough gap for the wrench to fall in there's enough room to get a borescope in there.

Don't despair, and don't do anything stupid like turning over the engine. Good luck.

 

[superfuzz]

If it actually did fall into the clutch area, you may not be totally screwed. The rear balancer and clutch are all removable without removing the engine. I would think that by the time you have the balancer and clutch basket out, you should be able to see a part of this size, or at least have a good shot at extracting it. It is described in the service manual, and I'm sure some of the more mechanically inclined members on this forum could relate some experience of having been in this area of the bike.

If you want to investigate further, I would start a new thread with a title like "Seeking Info on Removing Balancers, Clutch Basket or Crankcase" and see who shows up to help.

There's a lot you can do before taking the engine out, or even taking the pan off. I would for sure look at taking off the clutch, that's a piece of cake, and you've got nothing to lose but a little time. Also, try a different magnet onna stick and/or a borescope. If there is a big enough gap for the wrench to fall in there's enough room to get a borescope in there.

Don't despair, and don't do anything stupid like turning over the engine. Good luck.

That's the kind of positive talk I needed right now. Even I don't do that stuff, at least it's something a mechanic could do before things went nuclear.

I'm going to walk away, take my boys to preschool and revisit this afternoon.

 

[BikerGeek99]

This:

superfuzz, you have some really sharp FJR Guys living very close to you! Before you panic and go to a Dealer, I would send a PM to these Gentlemen and direct them to this thread: 1) Niehart - Dave B., 2) ahchiu - Marcus and 3) Panman - Kevin.

They are all locals within 50 miles of Gig Harbor, they could advise you of a trustworthy Yamaha mechanic. They may also have some good tricks up their sleeves, for extracting "the little *******"! Niehart worked at the Indian Moto Factory in 1937!

There are people here who helped Carver swap engines in his FJR. There are people here who have helped me with my FJR - CCT, valve check, fork service...

Ask nicely. Offer food. And beer (after the work is done, of course).

Gawd. I just realized that I actually seconded something that beemerdons said. WTH is wrong with me...

 

[wheatonFJR]

...WTH is wrong with me...

Well that's a WHOLE nuther thread there buddy...and a problem that makes this little taking apart an engine seem like a piece of cake.

So start your own GD thread if you really want answers to that...don't be messing up this guy's horror story thread here. :clapping:

 

[ahchiu]

This:

superfuzz, you have some really sharp FJR Guys living very close to you! Before you panic and go to a Dealer, I would send a PM to these Gentlemen and direct them to this thread: 1) Niehart - Dave B., 2) ahchiu - Marcus and 3) Panman - Kevin.

They are all locals within 50 miles of Gig Harbor, they could advise you of a trustworthy Yamaha mechanic. They may also have some good tricks up their sleeves, for extracting "the little *******"! Niehart worked at the Indian Moto Factory in 1937!

There are people here who helped Carver swap engines in his FJR. There are people here who have helped me with my FJR - CCT, valve check, fork service...

Ask nicely. Offer food. And beer (after the work is done, of course).

Gawd. I just realized that I actually seconded something that beemerdons said. WTH is wrong with me...

If you offer PIE you will have 6 guy knockin on tour door, give me a call and see if we can figure something out, BTW when I did my CCT I cut a slot in the bolt head so I can use a long screw driver to tighten the bolt then use the wrench for final tightening.

Marcus

206-nine one five-0016

 

[bucky]

Assuming the wrench is in the oilpan, how about trying this assuming the wrench is small enough to slide thru the drain hole. Use the magnet to slide said wrench over the top of the hole and use a small needle nose pliers or something try to stand the wrench somewhat vertical and pull it out? I looked at my 8mm wrench and it seems small enough to do so, but not sure. Or if that is not possible, could the wrench piece be left there? Get a couple of good magnets, adhere them to the bottom of the pan over the wrench and wouldn't that effectively keep it from moving? You could probably test that idea by using said magnets over the piece of the wrench you do have sandwiched by a similar piece of aluminum to test its ability to keep the wrench in place by shaking, tipping, etc. Just a thought.

I know this sounds dumb, but would it be possible to tip the bike upside down as someone suggested with the proper equipment and using some kind of a vibration method get the wrench piece to fall back out using gravity? Obviously drain the engine oil first.

Before possibly spending a couple grand on alternatives, I would try every other option first.

In any case, hope you find the little *******. Keep us informed.

 

[scubatech]

If it actually did fall into the clutch area, you may not be totally screwed. The rear balancer and clutch are all removable without removing the engine. I would think that by the time you have the balancer and clutch basket out, you should be able to see a part of this size, or at least have a good shot at extracting it. It is described in the service manual, and I'm sure some of the more mechanically inclined members on this forum could relate some experience of having been in this area of the bike.

If you want to investigate further, I would start a new thread with a title like "Seeking Info on Removing Balancers, Clutch Basket or Crankcase" and see who shows up to help.

There's a lot you can do before taking the engine out, or even taking the pan off. I would for sure look at taking off the clutch, that's a piece of cake, and you've got nothing to lose but a little time. Also, try a different magnet onna stick and/or a borescope. If there is a big enough gap for the wrench to fall in there's enough room to get a borescope in there.

Don't despair, and don't do anything stupid like turning over the engine. Good luck.

That's the kind of positive talk I needed right now. Even I don't do that stuff, at least it's something a mechanic could do before things went nuclear.

I'm going to walk away, take my boys to preschool and revisit this afternoon.

Superfuzz,

If you can get it to slide over to the area where the wrench fell inside the engine and get a visual on it use a pair of mechanical fingers to pull it out. That wrench will be very slippery and you will want a good grip on it. A good pair of those has a pretty strong spring. Good luck.

 

[Constant Mesh]

The small, bendable magnet I referenced in my earlier response could be inserted into the oil pan via the drain plug opening. The magnet is less than 8 mm in diameter. You could make a thorough sweep of the oil pan except for that area where the oil pump pickup strainer is located. A better option might be to remove the oil level float sensor on the bottom of the oil pan and then probe the pan area with the magnet. If it's in the oil pan you can likely grab it from the the oil level sensor opening. The oil level sensor has a fairly large diameter.

 

[FJRBluesman]

Gunny Beamerdons. I can't believe I'm agreeing with that Zonie.

It's the other half of this little ******* that has ruined it for me

It made a hollow *tink* *slide* sound that was exactly what I would imagine from it hitting that case and going in. Of course, I had the bike on the side stand to make the right side easier to see so it would have slid right down. Definitely not the ping ping ping that a wrench makes when it hit concrete floor. I did a thorough search of the work area but I was out in the middle of the garage and there wouldn't be anywhere to hide anyway. Searched the outside of the bike really well as I was putting some stuff back together, no dice.

Ok, my forensics’ analysis. Trying to be positive and really exhaust all leads. I’ve sometimes found stuff in the most unbelievable areas thinking, how in the world did it make it here, and it was in an area totally nowhere near where I was looking.
A couple things:

1) The crank journal area was well protected. You don’t believe it went down there. But could it have? Was it really that well protected?

2) You didn’t see it go in there but you can’t find it.

If you heard it slide, I’d think it would not make much sliding noise going down a well lubed passage. On the outside of the motor it might, but…. I wasn’t there. So…. The other half of the wrench looks like it might be about 1.5 inches, and I’d assume the lost part is the box end portion. That would make it easier to slide around Vs. the open end that could hang up on stuff. It seems like that opening below the clutch is also only about an inch or so in width. You’d need almost the perfect storm to get it in there. Being on the side stand didn’t help, note to self for future work on scoot.

Since the bike was on the side stand, I’d check the left side or more left than right of the motor exterior areas etc. It could have slide around there and lodged somewhere in a non-threatening area.

If that thing is absolutely not on the garage floor, on top of the motor or tranny area, etc, and did not fall into the crank area due to being blocked off, it must be in the little clutch hole. And being that the tranny is so tight in there, I’d have to think the thing should be closer to the top than you think. Unless that area is some weird journal for something before the trans gears.

If a small narrow magnet can’t retrace that larger wrenches journey into the cavern and retrieve it, it may not be there. A flexible magnet (maybe with the clutch basket removed) should be able to go where the wrench went. Whatever magnet you buy/use, make sure it won’t get jammed or fall apart into that area.

Again the real Engine experts that have worked in this area need to pipe in to help to see where it could have ended up.

Also try going to your local dealer and talking to a service wrench, the actual mechanic. Show him your picture, etc, ask him if it’s possible that it’s down there and where it could go. All these things can help.

Good luck SF

 

[ahchiu]

Gunny Beamerdons. I can't believe I'm agreeing with that Zonie.

It's the other half of this little ******* that has ruined it for me

It made a hollow *tink* *slide* sound that was exactly what I would imagine from it hitting that case and going in. Of course, I had the bike on the side stand to make the right side easier to see so it would have slid right down. Definitely not the ping ping ping that a wrench makes when it hit concrete floor. I did a thorough search of the work area but I was out in the middle of the garage and there wouldn't be anywhere to hide anyway. Searched the outside of the bike really well as I was putting some stuff back together, no dice.

Ok, my forensics’ analysis. Trying to be positive and really exhaust all leads. I’ve sometimes found stuff in the most unbelievable areas thinking, how in the world did it make it here, and it was in an area totally nowhere near where I was looking.
A couple things:

1) The crank journal area was well protected. You don’t believe it went down there. But could it have? Was it really that well protected?

2) You didn’t see it go in there but you can’t find it.

If you heard it slide, I’d think it would not make much sliding noise going down a well lubed passage. On the outside of the motor it might, but…. I wasn’t there. So…. The other half of the wrench looks like it might be about 1.5 inches, and I’d assume the lost part is the box end portion. That would make it easier to slide around Vs. the open end that could hang up on stuff. It seems like that opening below the clutch is also only about an inch or so in width. You’d need almost the perfect storm to get it in there. Being on the side stand didn’t help, note to self for future work on scoot.

Since the bike was on the side stand, I’d check the left side or more left than right of the motor exterior areas etc. It could have slide around there and lodged somewhere in a non-threatening area.

If that thing is absolutely not on the garage floor, on top of the motor or tranny area, etc, and did not fall into the crank area due to being blocked off, it must be in the little clutch hole. And being that the tranny is so tight in there, I’d have to think the thing should be closer to the top than you think. Unless that area is some weird journal for something before the trans gears.

If a small narrow magnet can’t retrace that larger wrenches journey into the cavern and retrieve it, it may not be there. A flexible magnet (maybe with the clutch basket removed) should be able to go where the wrench went. Whatever magnet you buy/use, make sure it won’t get jammed or fall apart into that area.

Again the real Engine experts that have worked in this area need to pipe in to help to see where it could have ended up.

Also try going to your local dealer and talking to a service wrench, the actual mechanic. Show him your picture, etc, ask him if it’s possible that it’s down there and where it could go. All these things can help.

Good luck SF

The picture you showed right below CCT there is a space where I have found parts that I have dropped and thought was lost, check every nook and cranny it could very well be there. I have found parts that I thought went some where else and coud not figure how it ended up where I found it.

 

[Fred W]

It made a hollow *tink* *slide* sound that was exactly what I would imagine from it hitting that case and going in.

Wait!! Did you happen to look inside the frame holes that you normally access the CCT adjustment through?

"tink - slide..."

 

[nervous]

Man oh man, I am feeling your pain and this has me on the edge of my seat. I had hoped that by the time we got here you woudl have had a happy ending. You have been given a lot of options so my .02 on that front has nothing to offer but I know that "Oh ****" feeling you had very well and it ain't no fun. I think patience is the #1 thing to stress in this situation. Dig in and keep moving forward until you either conquer it or wreck it. That seems to be my Modus Operandi.

The picture of your wrench jogged a serious memory for me though that might help someone else avoid your agony in the future. A couple years back I made a valve screw adjustment tool for my 1200 Bandit and had a flash of the kind of thing that happened to you should some oily hands loose their grip and it end up down a dark oil passage. I remember intentionally adding an oversized eye screw to one end and actually tied it off with a string to something so it couldn't get away.



As I look at that little ******* half wrench I couldn't help thinking that one more step, a small hole drilled and a small line attached would have changed the course. All the best,

 

[RossKean]

It made a hollow *tink* *slide* sound that was exactly what I would imagine from it hitting that case and going in.

Wait!! Did you happen to look inside the frame holes that you normally access the CCT adjustment through?

"tink - slide..."

I was thinking the same thing, Fred. That frame hole just below the CCT is a black hole for dropped nuts, bolts and hacked up stubby wrenches. That's why at least one CCT "how to" recommends covering it with some tape before beginning operations.

Ross

 

[olsonm3915]

Wait!! Did you happen to look inside the frame holes that you normally access the CCT adjustment through?

I was thinking the same thing, Fred. That frame hole just below the CCT is a black hole for dropped nuts, bolts and hacked up stubby wrenches. That's why at least one CCT "how to" recommends covering it with some tape before beginning operations.

When I replaced the CCT on my '07 I managed to drop an 8mm socket in that hole. Luckily a really strong magnet (out of an old hard drive) pulled it along inside the frame to the hole where I was able to extract it. Certainly worth considering.

 

[superfuzz]

So this morning, I talked to Allrider (Gordon) and he volunteered to come down and bring his various magnetic tools and (most importantly) an optimistic outlook. Prior to his arrival, the dudes and I went to harbor frieght in Tacoma and bought an inspection camera for $99 and this fella, a magnetic pickup/with LED light for $5.99

Just before Gordon arrived, I got the clutch cover and splash guard pulled off. I used the inspection camera and was encouraged to see that it looked like it opened down in to the sump. I figured worst case, I'd have to pull the oil pan and that didn't sound too bad.

Gordon arrived and he started fishing around with my new pickup. About 90 seconds later, VOILA!!! It was all the way down under the Rotella.

Reunited and it feels so good!!!

Huge thanks to Gordon!

Lesson learned? Look around, A LOT, and find every possible disaster before I started working around an open engine.