Er_1 Shift with engine light flashing and tach and speedo dead

[El Toro]

I gave my service manual away to a friend about a month ago. Then I bought another FJR and wished I'd had it back...

Today, as I was riding my "new to me" 2008 FJR1300AE about 30 miles from home, I became aware that although the bike was functioning in what appeared to be a normal manner, the following conditions were being displayed in the instrument cluster.

- the check engine light was on, and to the left of it it said Shift, and to the left of that it said Er_1, which I assume is an error code, number 1.

- the temperature gauge was pegged.

- the tach and speedo both read 0.

- the gear indicator was flashing the gear number, but it was the correct gear number.

Because of the temperature gauge, I pulled over immediately and called my wife to come and pick me up. I wasn't going to chance riding on an engine with coolant problems.

There were no other symptoms of anything. The bike was acting normally. It shifted from one gear to the next OK.

I waited for my wife, and when she came, after about half an hour, I started it up to see what it would do, and everything appeared to be normal.

I decided to ride it with her following.

I watched the cluster, and after about 15 miles, the engine light started to flicker, and when it came on, the temperature gauge pegged itself again, but there was obviously no temperature problem. Plenty of coolant. No evidence of any leaking. The display conditions were all as noted before when I'd stopped the first time.

I pulled over, shut things off again. Still no misbehavior by anything on the bike other than the display and this Er_1 code.

I started it up again. Things appeared to be OK. I rode 10 miles, and now I was only 5 miles from home, so instead of stopping, I forged ahead. It really did not appear that the engine was actually overheating.

This display continued, and as I slowed speed and shifted down to first to turn into my driveway, there was no power transmitted to the rear wheel.

I stopped and pushed the bike the last 100 or so feet to the garage.

In the garage, after a minute or two, I started it again. The display was normal, and I could shift into 1st, and power was being transmitted to the rear wheel as normal.

So ....

Has anyone seen this before? I am wondering if the issue is that the clutch reservoir is low and that might be the cause.

It is an AE model, as stated above.

Thanks in advance for any insights that can be shared. I am going to to see if I can find that clutch reservoir.

 

[ionbeam]

There are 4 Er codes which are indicators of errors in communications between the ECU and the Meter Assembly (dash display). Er_1 is no signals received from the ECU. Many of the items displayed on the gauges are read and calculated by the ECU then the values are sent to the Meter Assembly where they are displayed. Things like the temperature, tach and speed.

The communications between the ECU and the Meter Assembly is a serial digital data stream so there is nothing you can look at to confirm the two are 'talking' to each other.

The Er codes indicate _1 that there is NO communications between the ECU and the Meter Assembly; _2 that the timing of the communications is wrong; _3 data is not received correctly from the ECU; _4 the meter assembly is receiving data that it doesn't expect

There is (choose 1) -- a wiring issue between the ECU and the Meter Assemby; or a failure of the ECU; or a failure of the Meter Assembly; or the connectors at either the ECU or Meter Assembly is broken or has a bad connection. Check the big items first, be sure the connector on the ECU is seated (it is held in by a clip). The bad news is the next thing to check is that the connector on the back of the Meter Assembly is tight, 'cause getting to it will be a PITA. Do you know if the previous owner may have touched either of these connectors? Typically this kind of digital communications either works YES all the time or NO all the time. For it to work sometimes makes me suspicious that there is a loose connector or broken wire.

Since this 'problem' only affects the display of information and not the use of information like the ECU, you can ride your FJR without it failing. I have become fond of having both a tach and speedometer though...

Notice that there is no mention of a problem with the AE part of the FJR?

 

[El Toro]

I googled in general rather than search via the forum's search feature, and I found the diagnostic codes on the forum site.

Er_1 appears to be a short that kills the connection between the display and the engine control unit.

Sigh....

 

[El Toro]

Since this 'problem' only affects the display of information and not the use of information like the ECU, you can ride your FJR without it failing. I have become fond of having both a tach and speedometer though...

Me too. Thanks for such a quick response. I guess we were posting at about the same time.

I am not a fan of chasing down this sort of stuff, but it looks like I'll have to.

The bike looks bone stock. It's been sitting at a dealership since May when it was taken in a trade. Of course this problem did not show up during the 25 mile test ride, nor during the first 100 miles of riding after the bike got to my house....

It could be a truly random thing. I sure wish it was going to be as simple as the clutch reservoir needing to be topped off .

I appreciate your help.

 

[El Toro]

I picked up an '09 FJR AE too, not long after getting the '08. Good thing too.

The simple checks of grounds and plugs did not fix the problem, and so I took it back to the dealer where I'd bought it. The dealer was apologetic and said they would be committed to making it right.

So far they are doing a great job of sticking to it.... and they have recruited Yamaha's help. Sadly, so far without success.

They say they will stay at it until it is successfully resolved.

Today, at the end of our conversation, the service manager said "If you have any suggestions, let us know." I had already shared what was in the service manual (which my friend sent back to me when I bought the '08).

I thought I would see if anyone else has any additional suggestions.

Here's the list of what they've already done, all of it on Yamaha's advice.

1. cleaned grounds and checked wiring harness plugs

2. did subharness recall

3. did ignition switch recall

4. replaced clutch fluid

5. replaced ecu

6. checked voltage drops at different points as advised by yamaha - all OK

The next steps on the list are to replace the main harness and to replace the instrument cluster.

These parts have been ordered and have an ETA of Wednesday the 11th.

They have also made a request to Yamaha for a visit by the RTA. Not sure what RTA stands for, but the RTA appears to function as a supertechnician of sorts.

So ....

Anyone have any thoughts that I could pass on?

I'm actually sort of surprised that the level of diagnostic advice that is available from the official fault codes is so weak.

Did this get improved in the Gen III bikes? My childhood friends, all of whom have a high regard for Japanese bikes are a bit surprised that a Japanese bike would be so difficult to sort out.

 

[mcatrophy]

Go back to ionbeam's post above. It's one of the ECU (replaced already), wiring (including any connectors), or the meter assembly. There is nothing else that would prevent communication between the two units.

 

[El Toro]

Thanks for the help. I appreciate both your and ionbeam's responses.

That's the theory ... but they are trouble shooting with Yamaha's best and brightest as the directors of the trouble shooting.

I read the manual with the same interpretation as you ...

But before I took this whole problem to the selling dealer, I ran it by a dealer nearby where there is a Yamaha Gold Level Technician (I don't know what this means, but everyone bows to him when he enters, and as a humble guy, he shakes it off and does his work as though he were a mere mortal). The GLT (I wonder if GLT comes from the BMW K1600 ) first thought ... "It could be the ecu or the meter, but it is more likely to be some weird ground or wiring problem. Bring it in and I'll be happy to sort it out."

So ...

It would appear that this is not a common problem.

I have wondered if the so-called mcu could be in play too, or instead. I have wondered why there were both ecu and mcu ... I should read the manual and find out. The dealer I am working with says that the ecu is the ecu in the usual sense, and that the mcu is related to the shifting.

In my experience, ecu and mcu could be interchangable terms, and either would be expected to be fed by lots of sensors, and either would be expected to handle the usual fueling and timing decisions. With both of them on the bike, it's not as transparent.

Now if it turns out that the wiring harness or the meter solves the problem that will be a good thing. And it will also fit in the context of the manual's advice. And I would wonder why Yamaha needs to be involved because the manual's info is available to anyone, including their factory trained techs.

Sigh....

On the other hand, I am impressed with the dealer's willingness to stay with the issue. The service manager's last words to me yesterday were that they would keep at it until it was fully resolved, and at their (the dealership's) expense. That's pretty serious commitment to integrity. The bike was sold to me "as is" with no warranty expressed or implied, yet they are doing their best to make it right.

When this is over, I will make a post regarding the dealer ... I expect that it will be quite positive. I haven't seen this level of commitment to support a customer on a used bike since my first motorcycle (a used Honda S-90 that had been serious whipped by the previous owner). That dealership stood up and helped out a 16 year old kid beyond any reasonable expectation. Of course the $6/hr shop labor rate made this easier, but the $125 total price of the bike made it a pretty skinny deal. The $1.25/hr earning power of a 16 year old created a bond for life with the principals of that dealership, one of whom is still alive in his late 80's, and still a good friend.

 

[Queensland Ken]

May be the front cowling connector #3 ?

The connector block has both the bike's "normal" 12 volt ( black wire) and a 5 volt neutral (Black / White).

The 5 volt neutral runs directly to the meter assembly.

The ECU provides a 5 volt supply to all the sensors / transducers, neutrals of which are the separate S2 & S5 spiders.

 

[mcatrophy]

ECU is the Engine Control Unit, does what it says.

MCU is the Motor Control Unit. In Yamaha-land, this is the unit that controls the motors that drive the clutch and gear-change actuators of your AE (and my AS). Do not confuse with other manufacturors' MCUs that may well control the vehicle's motor.

Then there's the Multi Function Display which is the bit you look at.

Finally you have the ABS ECU (Electronic Control Unit, not to be confused with the engine ECU), sometimes refered to as the ABS Contol Unit.

I don't think there are any direct communication wires between ECU and the Meter Unit, it seems that all communication goes through the MCU, so it's very possible that a faulty MCU might cause this error. However, I find it difficult to follow the wiring diagram, so I could be wrong.

 

[ionbeam]

... but they are trouble shooting with Yamaha's best and brightest as the directors of the trouble shooting.

...I ran it by a dealer nearby where there is a Yamaha Gold Level Technician...

Now if it turns out that the wiring harness or the meter solves the problem that will be a good thing...And I would wonder why Yamaha needs to be involved because the manual's info is available to anyone, including their factory trained techs....

...They have also made a request to Yamaha for a visit by the RTA. Not sure what RTA stands for...

YTA Bronze

YTA Bronze is the introductory training course intended primarily for the entry-level technician or the technician new to Yamaha products

YTA Silver

YTA Silver level is a comprehensive week-long training course offered only at one of the Yamaha training facilities

YTA Gold

YTA Gold is the most advanced Yamaha Factory Training course available to provide an even higher level of system troubleshooting and diagnostics. YTA Gold is designed to challenge even the most skilled technicians. This five-day class...

RTA Regional Technical Adviser

When my FJR was very young it suffered a failure due to a Factory Flawed Part which left me looking for a Yamaha shop. I first used Yamaha's Gold Technician as a guide for a shop. After talking to some of the Gold techs I quickly realized that being exposed to education doesn't always mean that the education 'took'. The tech standards aren't a total waste, it does provide a starting point.

Yes, the manual is available to everyone but it sure doesn't mean that everyone can use it for advanced diagnosis. There is no substitute for understanding how the systems work and how to do proper structured troubleshooting and these two areas are where the FSM is close to useless for most people. Not the fault of the people though, just because you read the manual for an airplane doesn't mean you are a pilot

Based on what has been done so far it still looks like the problem is in the signal path between the ECU and the Meter Assembly or the Meter Assembly itself. The meter assembly does have power and ground because it can display the error message. The Meter Assembly does work well enough to display an error message so the digital processor circuits are working to some extent.

If the Meter Assembly needs to be replaced the current odometer mileage will be lost and you will be back to 0000000. When Yamaha replaced the Meter Assembly for the stuck instantaneous mileage readout the dealer was instructed to put the mileage in the back of the owners manual and/or on a sticker on the bottom of the glove box door.

 

[dcarver]

The $1.25/hr earning power of a 16 year old created a bond for life with the principals of that dealership, one of whom is still alive in his late 80's, and still a good friend.

Well said. Good luck with the troubleshooting.

 

[El Toro]

Thanks for the additional input. I am going to pass it on to the service manager at the dealership where the bike is in the ICU.

Regarding the $6/hr labor rate, several years later I was the service manager in this same dealership, and I was earning a whopping $3.25/hr.

The top mechanic, who worked on flat rate because he was so fast, was making $5/flat rate hour.

On that S-90, when the piston cracked from center of the crown down to the wrist pin, they charged me $18.43 for a new piston, new rings, cylinder hone, and all labor. When the incorrectly fused wiring harness fried after the rectifier failed, they charged me maybe $25 for the R&R and new loom and rectifier.

Regarding the MCU vs. ECU, it is pretty clear from the schematics that the inputs and outputs for the MCU are associated with the shifting, where as the inputs and outputs for the ECU are associated with fueling and timing decisions. So at least that's clear.

I'll report on the resolution when its finally sorted.

Meanwhile, the '09 that I also picked up is performing like a champ so far. It will have its first longer test tomorrow when I make a run to help one of the kids in another city.

I would sure love to be able to buy a Gen III with AS, and ES, and cruise, if such an animal exists. It would be my ultimate motorcycle.

 

[mcatrophy]

...I would sure love to be able to buy a Gen III with AS, and ES, and cruise, if such an animal exists. It would be my ultimate motorcycle.

Well, they're made, that's my current ride. Available in the UK as the FJR1300AS, but not in the US. Much improved, over the Gen 2, see my comparison.
However, our "AE" is your "ES". Confused?

 

[El Toro]

The different designations are confusing, that's for sure. It used to be, before all the regulations and government "improvements" in international trade, that we could come over to Europe, buy a bike, ride it around in Europe, and then ship it home, paying whatever fees were required, none of which were offensively large.

Nowadays it is about impossible to do this. I am going to work on it though.

Today I had a pretty good run on the '09 and it performed at a confidence inspiring level.

After a couple hundred miles on the '09 FJR AE, I headout out on a shorter run with the Rocket III Touring.

My left hand is doing better, and the Rocket was a joy to ride too.

So many motorcycles .... so little time ...

 

[El Toro]

The weekly status of the bike, which has now been at the dealership for 3 weeks...

Neither the instrument cluster nor the main harness solved the problem.

However, they now say that instead of replacing the ECU, as would have been the choice based on the diagnostic section of the service manual, they replaced the MCU. And although the subharness had been replaced on recall, Yamaha is now wondering about its status too.

So .... more parts coming from Japan, this time with an ETA of Thursday. That will be a month in their custody.

I am still pleased that they are staying with it. But naturally, I am glad that I am not relying on this bike for anything.

If you read the manual, it seems like the key things to do would be check the connections between the ECU and the Meter, replace the ECU, replace the Meter. I am wondering why they're going back to the ECU. I am sure that they said they'd done the ECU 3 weeks ago because we had the discussion at that time about how the ECU was different than the MCU.

Sigh....

All's well that ends well. I am looking for the end of this one, and I'm a bit thankful that I am not on my own. If the best and brightest at Yamaha have no better approach than to throw expensive parts that have to come from Japan at the problem, an owner could run up a pretty big tab while the issue was being sorted, even if the owner did all the work at home.

FWIW, I'm not down on the AE model. I have had four of them, and this is the only one that has given any trouble.

In fact, since I re-acquired an '09, every time I ride it I am really glad to have an AE. My left hand has healed up enough that I can also go back and ride my Rocket III Touring, but the FJR calls my name even more frequently.

 

[mcatrophy]

Thanks for the update, always nice to know of any progress (or lack thereof).

 

[El Toro]

Thanks for the update, always nice to know of any progress (or lack thereof).

Well, this week we have "lack thereof."

I had a spirited ride on the '09 today, and that bike (the one with the Y.E.S. into April of 2017) continues to do exactly as one would hope.

However, regarding the '08, I called the dealer today, and the parts from Japan did not come in. They are now expected on Tuesday.

Tuesday is also the date that the Regional Technical Advisor will reveal his plans for coming to help.

So ... no joy for the '08 yet, but stay tuned.

 

[El Toro]

Tuesday business hours have come and gone.

Yamaha did not call with the "firm date" for the RTA to come.

The parts from Japan did arrive (ECU and subharness).

Deer season is underway, and they are covered over getting new ATVs delivered, so there was no attempt to install the new parts today. In their defense, the parts did not show up until the after lunch parts delivery. And it is reasonable to try to get ATVs ready for deer season before Thanksgiving weekend. So I'm still patient.

One new development is that Yamaha is now helping them with the cost. So most of the cost is being born by the Sales Department at the dealership, but Yamaha is chipping in now too. I'm not sure in what way, and as long as no one is asking me to write a check, I don't really need to know the other funding details.

 

[Niehart]

Just make sure that the foot brake is not sticking. It throws all kinds of strange codes especially on AE's.