Erectile Dysfunction

[JimLor]

On the way home this evening I noticed the windscreen was sagging to the right. When I put it all the way down and then raised it, it again sagged on the right. Hmmmm, at first I thought something on the right side powered lever broke or the like. Then I got home and noticed the center bracket (not the "W") was loose at the right side connection. It was loose because the screw was broken!

I did a mod about two years ago to tilt the screen back some. I used a 3/8" nylon spacer with a metal washer on either side and inserted a longer screw. Worked great. That is until one screw snapped and the other bent! Luckily I kept to stock screws and all is well.

My caution would be to check these once in a while and make sure you use a strong enough screw. I bought mine at Lowe's and am not really sure of the screw material, but it wasn't strong enought!

Here's a picture, you can clearly see the broken screw and how the other one is bent.

Again, worked fine...actually it didn't because the screw failed, but while the screw held, it was fine, but make sure you get a strong enough screw. I'm sure someone here will know the specific type/material.

I should add that the 3/8" nylon spacers and metal washers did not show any wear - screws only!

 

[FJR_pig]

Nothing worse than having a weak screw. I always try to have at least one extra in case the first one doesn't get the job done.

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(softball flying thru the air, who will swing first?...)

 

[NightShine]

I used a 3/8" nylon spacer with a metal washer on either side and inserted a longer screw. Worked great. That is until one screw snapped and the other bent! Luckily I kept to stock screws and all is well.

JimLor, This sounds suspiciously familiar. A year and more back, Toecutter reported that a similar mod on his bike failed when these same screws sheered. He had used a nylon (or plastic?) spacer as well. The idea at the time was that the relatively soft spacer material had allowed the screw to minutely flex repeatedly, causing it to eventually fail due to metal fatigue. The solution was to replace the plastic with a metal spacer, thus ensuring that everything was truly ridged.

 

[JimLor]

I don't recall that thread from last year, might have helped!

I just looked at the nylon spacers and did not see any elongation or enlarging of the interior hole - where da screw goes thru. Frankly, I don't think the spacer (at least the ones I chose) provides any lateral support other than that provided by tightening the screw down tight and compressing the mass together. That said, one preventative step might be to retighten the screw every 6 months or so and a metal spacer would be a good step also.

 

[Fred W]

JimLor,

Yeah, Toe posted in a thread I had about these home-brewed spacers to be really careful.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...st&p=302579

I think the problem is that when you add spacers the bolts are at the wrong angle. That would be why the Rifle tuning block is angled slightly, to relieve that problem:

 

[JimLor]

Fred - that makes sense. The spacer with hold the block at the right angle, but with the rifle block you have much more surface area doing the same. As much as I love to discuss (not argue!), that does make sense. Thanks. Think I'll see how it is back at the stock angle - frankly I'll probably just keep it there.

Thanks!

 

[keithaba]

At least it didn't have anything to do with the windshield motor. That thing is expensive, and you can't order parts. Only the whole assembly.

I already have one, but that makes me curious if Rifle sells the tuning block by itself? I would guess so?

 

[madmike2]

JimLor,
Yeah, Toe posted in a thread I had about these home-brewed spacers to be really careful.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...st&p=302579

I think the problem is that when you add spacers the bolts are at the wrong angle. That would be why the Rifle tuning block is angled slightly, to relieve that problem:

I've been using home made spacers on my bike(s) nearly 45K miles with no issues, so far. I have always used metal spacers. I'd more believe the theory about plastic spacers allowing the fastener to flex and vibrate.

IIRC, Rifle will not sell their "tuning block" separately. That's why the idea for home made spacers.

 

[JimLor]

Mike - I have to respectfully disagree. And I'm going from the spacers I used (size) - I don't think, that unless you buy a spacer that exactly fits the space between the inner and outer sections, the spacer will provide any support for the screw other than keeping the inner/outer farther apart and tilting the mechanism; doesn't matter whether it's metal or nylon. I did use metal washers on either side of the spacers if that matters (I don't think it does). I haven't seen the rifle product in person, but it does look like it would provide support all around and not just in the direction of compressing the inner/outer frames.

Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I really don't think the material of the spacer matters UNLESS it is exactly sized and won't move around between the inner/outer frames. That said, yes, mine did fail and I did use nylon...

 

[radman]

JimLor,
Yeah, Toe posted in a thread I had about these home-brewed spacers to be really careful.

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...st&p=302579

I think the problem is that when you add spacers the bolts are at the wrong angle. That would be why the Rifle tuning block is angled slightly, to relieve that problem:

I've been using home made spacers on my bike(s) nearly 45K miles with no issues, so far. I have always used metal spacers. I'd more believe the theory about plastic spacers allowing the fastener to flex and vibrate.

IIRC, Rifle will not sell their "tuning block" separately. That's why the idea for home made spacers.

Ditto. It is the use of flexible spacers noted in every failure that lends credibility to MM's post-two 3/8 nuts in Frank, for 30,000 miles, at speeds up to 140mph with screen up, and no indication of any strain or problem that might cause failure.

 

[madmike2]

I only added my perspective because I am one of the first to space my windshield. When I first did so I "stacked" two 5/16" nuts under each screw on my '04. I did the same when I got the '05 and later, I replaced them with Skyway's spacers.

Knock-on-wood, I've not had a problem even though I rotate between windshields (CeeBailey and CalSci). I do ride in varying weather conditions and wind is prevalent in the climates I ride out here (Serra Nevada mountians, Central Valley, Pacific Coast) so the windshield mechanism is under stress.

While I agree the Rifle tuning-block should displace the compression stress across a wider area, the shearing stress is still on the mounting screws. That's why I used metal spacers from the beginning, to remove as much opportunity for vibration or movement involving spacer material. I'm guessing that some thought the "give" in the plastic would absorb vibration.

Nevertheless, yours was a frightenting scenario that could have become a dangerous incident had you not noticed the problem. I don't even want to think about the seriousness of the screws breaking and allowing the windshield to slide up and hit you (or any rider).

I'd caution any owner who has spacers of any type to check or replace the screws. And if they have plastic spacers, to replace them with metal.

 

[brazos parker]

I, too, have nylon spacers on my windshield. When I went to tilt the shield back, there were no metal spacers in EAST TENNESSEE! :angry: So, I used nylon. In early December, I ordered some stainless spacers from McMaster-Carr, along w/ a few other items. I've just been lazy about installing them. Maybe Jim's experience will get me off my boo-tocks and install them. I do have stainless screws holding them in place...if that makes any difference.

 

[HaulinAshe]

Might I also suggest stainless screws or at least grade-10 or grade-12 hardware? Not sure about it, but from JimLor's pictures it looks like a standard grade-4 plated screw.

 

[madmike2]

Might I also suggest stainless screws or at least grade-10 or grade-12 hardware? Not sure about it, but from JimLor's pictures it looks like a standard grade-4 plated screw.

Good point, IIRC, I used stainless screws.

 

[Fred W]

Mike - I have to respectfully disagree. And I'm going from the spacers I used (size) - I don't think, that unless you buy a spacer that exactly fits the space between the inner and outer sections, the spacer will provide any support for the screw other than keeping the inner/outer farther apart and tilting the mechanism; doesn't matter whether it's metal or nylon. I did use metal washers on either side of the spacers if that matters (I don't think it does). I haven't seen the rifle product in person, but it does look like it would provide support all around and not just in the direction of compressing the inner/outer frames.
Again, I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I really don't think the material of the spacer matters UNLESS it is exactly sized and won't move around between the inner/outer frames. That said, yes, mine did fail and I did use nylon...

Jim,

When you use a somewhat compressible material (such as the plastic) it allows the brackets a small amount of flexing as evidenced on your broken and non-broken screws.

OTOH, if the spacer material is non-compressible, like the skyways or any sort of metal, once the screws are tightened up, there is no way for the two brackets to flex at an angle to each other.

I know I'm not describing it well, but I believe what the others is saying is true. I also believe that the angled rifle block is better than a non-angled metal spacer of the same thickness. However, the rifle block is one size fits all.

 

[JimLor]

Yeah, I was thinking about it while riding today - I can see how the nylon would let the screw flex while a metal spacer might/would not. Even though I didn't see any deformation on the nylon...in fact, I'll posit that that is because the nylon was flexing and allowing the screws to flex hence the failure. I'm with you Mike.

I also agree with using a better quality bolt. I bought mine at Lowe's and have no doubt is was a #2, 3 or so quality bolt.

Mike (Brazos) - I'd check them and if you can replace them with metal; I'd also make sure you have a high quality bolt.

That said, I gotta say that my CB +3+4 with the angle back at stock is absolutely perfect! Funny, I think when I began riding I was looking for no wind...now I don't mind as long as it's not shoving me around. Yup, the reason for inserting the spacers is still there, if I raise the screen more than about 3 inches or so, I get the old pressing on the head and forward. I'm actually happy with the screen now, but I hate to get beaten and I'll find better quality bolts and metal spacers and start again.

Thanks to all for you thoughts, opinions, and suggestions!

 

[madmike2]

Yup, the reason for inserting the spacers is still there, if I raise the screen more than about 3 inches or so, I get the old pressing on the head and forward. I'm actually happy with the screen now, but I hate to get beaten and I'll find better quality bolts and metal spacers and start again.
Thanks to all for you thoughts, opinions, and suggestions!

Jim, we're all here to help and learn. IIRC, the backpressure is exactly why I determined to make the change to begin with.

Y'know, Rad and I did it the "el cheapo" way....stacking a couple of SAE nuts (IIRC he used 3/8" while I used 5/16"). 4 nuts and 2 stainless screws from the hardware store....$1.50-$2.00? :happysmiley:

 

[JimLor]

I probably go that way myself. However, this time I'll take the time to get a better quality bolt!

 

[Fred W]

I probably go that way myself. However, this time I'll take the time to get a better quality bolt!

Speaking of which, going back to some prior recommendations about these screws, is it really enough to just say that you want these to be "stainless"? I was under the impression that common stainless steel is not all that great in terms of tensile strength. I would want to use stainless too, for the non-corrosion aspect, but is it really all that strong?

Anyone with some real metallurgical knowledge?