You must be the ES mileage king right about now.
ES Suspension
- Thread starter chazglenn3
- Start date
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That is very encouraging news!
Uncle Hud
Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg
chazglen3, I'd love to know who's already ridden 100,000 miles on a Gen3. That's some serious annual mileage. (Fooker's probably a retired guy. They really piss me off.)
Well, Im newly retired, but not racking up any miles yet.
Still... :****:
Still... :****:
Griff has 97K on his 2014 according to his post a few back...
rvnmaniac
Well-known member
Uncle Hud
Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg
Yep, I am quite familiar with the ToH and BMR Big Dog. Waiting for Griff to enter the IBR, so I can stand on a bridge in a bikini and wave at him.
Hubba, Hubba, indeed!
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Dances With Deer
Active member
No issues on my 2015. I love the versatility of the ES.
MartyO
Well-known member
I'm at 78k on my 14 ES and I'm a little concerned about the rear shock. It feels a little harsh like it is not dampening like it once did. The bike is going to the shop for a valve adjustment check so I'm going to have them check out the rear shock. Not leaking any oil but it seems to feel a little different. I let you know what I find out.
Uncle Hud
Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg
Did you accidentally adjust the suspension? I'd expect the ride to get softer as the shocks age.
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How did you determine the change is in the rear? What preload and damping do you usually use?
One thing that I’ve been concerned about, but have yet to observe, is the thought that the stepper motors would lose sync, or lose their home position, and that would shift the entire thing out of whack.
escapefjrtist
Searching for Dry Roads
Possible that the rear shock fluid is so trashed there's little if any dampening left? If the fluid (oil) has lost it's viscosity, the shock could be blowing through the stroke in either direction with little control.
--G
MartyO
Well-known member
My butt and brain thinks it the rear shock and this I mostly get on So. Cal. freeways. I guess that's just years of dirt and street riding talking, not sure I'm right. Haven't put it in the shop yet but went on some very spirited twisty rides lately and it felt great. Adjustment 1-up with bags hard +3 and no bags, pretending I had a sport bike and riding with sport bike guys. Not quite as fast but held my own. So with that I'm really confused, thanks FredW.
SkooterG
Purveyor of Crooked Facts
Pop goes the skeptic...... How does one know when the suspension is getting tired? Seriously. Barring a catastrophic failure, or visible leak, how can you tell your suspension is getting tired? To my way of thinking, a suspension getting tired is something that happens over a long period of time and miles. It would be so gradual that one's 'feel' would adjust right a long with it and you would not realize anything was changing or getting worse. Now I know there are exceptions to the rule. Some very experienced riders or racers that can theoretically feel the minor changes when things aren't right. But for the vast majority of us, including experienced riders like myself, I don't think we really have any idea. So no offense to you folks, but your 'mine's fine after XXXXX miles' statements don't mean too much to me.
So how do you know how much it has degraded? Or that it has done so enough to need attention?
There has been only one time I thought my suspension was worn and needed servicing/rebuild. All of a sudden bumps were getting very harsh. It seemed I felt every little thing on the road. I hadn't serviced my forks or shock in probably 60-90,000 miles and just 'knew' it was due. This went on over the course of several weeks. I was procrastinating breaking everything down and sending it in as I was still riding daily.
In that time I needed new tires and replaced the WELL worn Michelin Pilot Road IIs that were on there. Guess what? All was good in my FJR's world again. Those well worn POS PR2s were causing all the problems. New tires fixed all of the ills I was experiencing. It made no sense to me. No other brand or model of tire had caused such ride quality issues when worn. How could it just have been the tires? Eventually I did have my suspension serviced also, but I don't remember feeling anything significantly different. Definitely nothing like the change of replacing the POS PR2s! (Can you tell I am not a fan of PR2s?)
So educate me. How does one know when the suspension is worn enough to need servicing?
So how do you know how much it has degraded? Or that it has done so enough to need attention?
There has been only one time I thought my suspension was worn and needed servicing/rebuild. All of a sudden bumps were getting very harsh. It seemed I felt every little thing on the road. I hadn't serviced my forks or shock in probably 60-90,000 miles and just 'knew' it was due. This went on over the course of several weeks. I was procrastinating breaking everything down and sending it in as I was still riding daily.
In that time I needed new tires and replaced the WELL worn Michelin Pilot Road IIs that were on there. Guess what? All was good in my FJR's world again. Those well worn POS PR2s were causing all the problems. New tires fixed all of the ills I was experiencing. It made no sense to me. No other brand or model of tire had caused such ride quality issues when worn. How could it just have been the tires? Eventually I did have my suspension serviced also, but I don't remember feeling anything significantly different. Definitely nothing like the change of replacing the POS PR2s! (Can you tell I am not a fan of PR2s?)
So educate me. How does one know when the suspension is worn enough to need servicing?
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That seems like a question for a NEPRT tire thread.
Scooters point about suspension being worn out is a good one. I know a lot of us upgraded the fork internals and swapped to aftermarket shocks in our A models, and that made a huge difference in handling, but the biggest changes made were usually changes in spring rate, plus more adjustability of the damping. Once you got your setup dialed in (if you even knew what you were looking for) how much did it really change from there on?
I guess thats a good question for those among us that insist they need to be refreshed every XX number of miles. After I upgraded my 1st Gen suspension at around 60k I never felt a need to touch it again and it still seems fine at 100k, though the new owner is considerably lighter than I am.
The nice thing about the ES is that I felt no need to upgrade the suspension from new, and it still feels great at 30k miles. Hope I never feel a need to touch it.
Scooters point about suspension being worn out is a good one. I know a lot of us upgraded the fork internals and swapped to aftermarket shocks in our A models, and that made a huge difference in handling, but the biggest changes made were usually changes in spring rate, plus more adjustability of the damping. Once you got your setup dialed in (if you even knew what you were looking for) how much did it really change from there on?
I guess thats a good question for those among us that insist they need to be refreshed every XX number of miles. After I upgraded my 1st Gen suspension at around 60k I never felt a need to touch it again and it still seems fine at 100k, though the new owner is considerably lighter than I am.
The nice thing about the ES is that I felt no need to upgrade the suspension from new, and it still feels great at 30k miles. Hope I never feel a need to touch it.
MCRIDER007
Well-known member
Good questions. Lets start why you have suspension. Suspension's primary purpose is to keep the wheel in contact with the road, a smooth comfortable ride is just a additional benefit of good suspension.
The most important component of suspension is your tires (as previously stated), therefore you should not make conclusions about the state of your suspension until you have fresh tires.
What are signs of suspension in need of a rebuild? The most common is the dreaded pogo effect in the rear after riding over a very large bump or several small ones in quick succession. Another is a rough ride over bumps that you normally wouldn't notice (or can't even see) or having to back off on speed on your favorite corners when you hit small bumps or uneven surfaces. It might be that the bike just feels old and you are starting to think about replacing it. I think the best test is to ride a friend's bike that has similar but much newer suspension (tough to do if you don't have any friends that will trust you with their bike).
There isn't any way for fork/shock oil to completely avoid getting contamination from dirt and/or condensation. Sometimes you just have to follow the first recommended service interval, get feedback from the tech who serviced the shock regarding the amount of dirt, rust, or anything else he found; and use that information to estimate what service interval will work the best for you.
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Oublaj
Active member
Since the ES is so easily adjusted I would think my suspension was getting tired if I found myself adjusting it more often or much stiffer more often. Mine will probably never wear out with the amount of miles I’m able to put on it. To little time unfortunately.
MartyO
Well-known member
Well now I don't feel bad about being confused.
So, the follow-up question would be: what exactly is wearing out that causes the suspension to slowly become tired?
I would guess that there are three major wear items involved: bushings, seals, and the damping fluid (suspension oil). I know when they rebuild a shock they also tend to replace the flexible shim stacks in the high speed damping circuit, but Im not sure if that is due to wear or fatigue, or corrosion deposits, or why they replace these. The corollary shims in the forks seldom even get looked at.
The bushings and seal wear only really matter if things become so loose that the movement is no longer smooth (rare) or it cant hold the fluid inside any more (less rare). So the biggest thing that would cause the suspension to feel worse over time would be the degrading suspension oil making the damping inadequate. Cranking up the damping adjustment clickers over time should allow you to maintain close to new performance, but as weve mentioned in the past some of the damping circuits are not adjustable on some forks or shocks.
A shop that makes their livelihood rebuilding suspensions has a conflict of interests in giving you an accurate rebuild interval. I wonder if modern synthetic suspension oils really need replacing as often as is usually done these days. Maybe a lot of that is based off requirements of the past fluids?
I would guess that there are three major wear items involved: bushings, seals, and the damping fluid (suspension oil). I know when they rebuild a shock they also tend to replace the flexible shim stacks in the high speed damping circuit, but Im not sure if that is due to wear or fatigue, or corrosion deposits, or why they replace these. The corollary shims in the forks seldom even get looked at.
The bushings and seal wear only really matter if things become so loose that the movement is no longer smooth (rare) or it cant hold the fluid inside any more (less rare). So the biggest thing that would cause the suspension to feel worse over time would be the degrading suspension oil making the damping inadequate. Cranking up the damping adjustment clickers over time should allow you to maintain close to new performance, but as weve mentioned in the past some of the damping circuits are not adjustable on some forks or shocks.
A shop that makes their livelihood rebuilding suspensions has a conflict of interests in giving you an accurate rebuild interval. I wonder if modern synthetic suspension oils really need replacing as often as is usually done these days. Maybe a lot of that is based off requirements of the past fluids?
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As a neophyte when it comes to the chemical attributes of fork oils, I would like to suggest the following; If you carefully clean the suspension tubes after each ride and keep them well waxed it will greatly reduce contamination of the fork oil., I have been told by chemical engineers, oils do not wear out it get dirty. If the mechanical components wear, that is another chapter.
