Ethics in shopping? Helmets

[exskibum]

Living in a relatively small town 30 miles or so from Sacramento, I hear you on the morality thing.

On something like helmets or MC boots, where I already know pretty much what I want, I go in and just try on what's on display without making a salesman do much of anything. Then I order what I want at the best prices on line.

On tires, I mount and balance my own and know what I want, so I avoid the issue and get the best price I can on tires online, considering the reliability and service of the internet supplier.

On other stuff, here's my rule: If I know or figure out what I want (from forum or friend input), I may peruse a local dealer's offerings to see it in person and check fit, but I have no remorse for buying on the net.

On merchandise where I don't know what I need to know (e.g., buying protective gear for riding my new last summer KLR), I go to the dealer of choice, get a salesperson, ask him to "educate me", and assuming he is sincerely trying to do that, I get out the credit card, hope he gets a commission off it and say good things about him to his employer. He earned it and the difference in price was the price of my education, for which I will happily pay.

If I'm conflicted about any of this (something I've done with musical instruments, for example), I get the best price I can on line and offer my local dealer an opportunity to match it. I've been told yes and no, but in the latter case, he appreciated that I gave him the chance to meet it and no hard feelings resulted).

 

[Kevin Daly]

On merchandise where I don't know what I need to know (e.g., buying protective gear for riding my new last summer KLR), I go to the dealer of choice, get a salesperson, ask him to "educate me", and assuming he is sincerely trying to do that, I get out the credit card, hope he gets a commission off it and say good things about him to his employer. He earned it and the difference in price was the price of my education, for which I will happily pay.

Agreed, if they offer you a real service i have no problem paying for that!! I tend not to see much of that in most of the motorcycle shops i visit. Hence my love of the web!!

 

[BrunDog]

I think there is distinct value in a local retailer where I can try on personal things like a helmet. I think I should pay a slight premium for that honor. My time is more valuable to me to find something that works correctly the first time, rather than trying to save a few bucks at a risk that the uneducated purchase was ultimately unworthy because I needed to return it and repurchase.

Now, if the upcharge is beyond reasonable in my book, I very openly and transparently tell the shop manager (floor salespeople generally dont have the authority) what my concern is: That they are bringing value to me, but that value does not warrant the price. They usually agree and negotiate on the price (any retailer can extend a 10% discount without even trying, and deeper discounts don't take much more effort, IMO), and we resolve a price that is fair to both of us. If they do not, I tell them to f*ck themselves and that I'll take my business elsewhere. That is good business, and feeds directly to the model of capitalism.

-BD

 

[Old Michael]

I think there is distinct value in a local retailer where I can try on personal things like a helmet. I think I should pay a slight premium for that honor. My time is more valuable to me to find something that works correctly the first time, rather than trying to save a few bucks at a risk that the uneducated purchase was ultimately unworthy because I needed to return it and repurchase.
Now, if the upcharge is beyond reasonable in my book, I very openly and transparently tell the shop manager (floor salespeople generally dont have the authority) what my concern is: That they are bringing value to me, but that value does not warrant the price. They usually agree and negotiate on the price (any retailer can extend a 10% discount without even trying, and deeper discounts don't take much more effort, IMO), and we resolve a price that is fair to both of us. If they do not, I tell them to f*ck themselves and that I'll take my business elsewhere. That is good business, and feeds directly to the model of capitalism.

-BD

" If they do not, I tell them to f*ck themselves and that I'll take my business elsewhere."

Geez, you turn from friendly negotiating consumer into one of my exes awful quick. :lol: But yours, and all these others are very well-reasoned responses.

I'm not much at bargaining, but I think I'll have to give the "this product is available online for $, so would you consider lowering your price to make this sale" thing a try. It will be easier to walk out and go to my computer if I can say that I've given them the chance to make me a customer.

I'm determined to get my Multitech for a price I can live with.

 

[twowheelnut]

I needed a new helmet. I wanted a Multitec. No dealer in my shopping radius carries them in stock. Matter of fact, most don't carry flip-ups at all. I couldn't even try one on, so I parts411.com'd one for the 'secret' price of $347. Great price, fast service, but the ****** didn't fit per Shoei's fitting suggestions, so back it went and I got the right size about a week later. In this case, I have no guilt be cause the dealers don't stock 'em, so it's a no sale for them, anyway.

On the other hand, I will now offer the dealer a chance to compete with the online guys, if they come close and I feel comfortable with their price, I'll buy from them. Keep in mind that I get a 15% discount on everything except labor and tires at my main parts dealer. He also sells tires at damn near in'nernet prices, then mounts them for free.

Finally, folks that support this forum and its members - bikeeffects.com, Umotors, skyway - are my first 'go to' guys for stuff.

 

[exskibum]

Geez, you turn from friendly negotiating consumer into one of my exes awful quick. :lol:

Uhhhh -- we weren't married to the same women, were we??? :argue: . . . :feminist_en:

And I agree with TWN -- there is a certain acceptable premium for having a local dealer to go back to with a product, who will stand behind it and go to bat for you with the supplier. That's another part of the upcharge I'm willing to pay for. I WANT to pay my money to a local merchant, but I"m only going to pay for value and service -- not just because they decide on an arbitrary, non-value based premium beyond what I can find elsewhere.

 

[painman]

A helmet is about the only thing I will purchase for sure from my local supply store namely Cycle Gear. Fit and finish are so important on a helmet and with so many different shapes and features for fitment I try it on and I'll buy from them. If they don't have the color or combination I want I will try on that model and they can order the right color for me and I don't pay for the shipping. Usually prices are slightly better in store becuase of this for helmets where I live. PM. <><

 

[Powerman]

I employ the same ethics as the dealer!

They charged my buddy $685 for tires and oil for a Valkerie. He traded there for over 20 yrs.

They gouge you to mount others tires. "Why didn't you buy this tire here"? Because it was $209 and I paid $118. "No way". I carry the owner to his tire rack and show him the price, he was suprised. Not enough to give the usual mounting price.

Another local dealer tries to meet internet prices.

I try to give the local guys my business when possible, but!

I don't care if the dealer has a bare walls and a concrete floor, what's up with this upscale flash?

 

[fjr]

Sport is wrong. Morality in a capitalistic society is to act as selfishly as you can!
That said, I price out the helmet (or anything i want) online, delivered. I take that to my local dealer and see how i like the fit, quality, look, etc. The in store price is always higher. I tell them. look here, this is what I can get it for shipped to my home. I prefer to spend my money local but I wont over pay. What are you willing to do to get my business today?

I have to be honest, sometimes it works sometimes it don't.

+1. Did this at a local Honda dealership with a new CBR literbike. I printed out an online price and

told them it would cost me $200 to go out of town and pick it up.

"Can you match their price but I'll give you the $200?"

"No, sorry," came the reply.

I started to walk but didn't make it to the door.

Manager came over and said, "Let me take another look."

They met my price and I got a CBR locally.

I wouldn't do this for a can of chain lube but to save $100 on a helmet or tires. You betcha.

 

[dcarver]

I ALWAYS give the local dealer(s) a chance at the sale. My primary dealer, who has treated me good in the past, I'm more open to a higher price tag on the sale. At the opposite end of the spectrum, the other dealer hasn't treated me as 'nice' and my margin with them is much closer to Internet pricing.

On the other hand, both of my primary dealers have shown great reluctance to reduce tire pricing and mounting charges. I asked each SM 'look, I can buy this tire for 140 all day long, you want 190, why don't you buy from the same place that I do, it's free shipping, charge me 5% extra then mount the damn things, front and rear, for 40$ and make a nice little, consistent profit? BTW, while I'm in the shop waiting who knows what else I'll buy, from a brand new 14k Ktm (i hate smitty now) to 60 bucks worth of stuff I don't need?

Sometimes I think they just don't get it.

 

[ionbeam]

My wife and I were shopping for new helmets and found the ones we were interested in at Naults Windham Honda (NH). Problem was that the purchase would have been around $1,200 for both helmets :shok: I was planning to order the helmets online at a substantial savings. Research before we went shopping gave me an idea what the online pricing was. When the sales guy came over, I told him that I would like to keep my money in the local economy but, dang, the helmets we were looking at are priced too high to even come close to being competitive. Sales guy sez, let me talk to my boss. Boss shows up and asks what the online prices were. I give him the price range and expected him to hit the floor, but instead he summoned his staff to fetch The Calculator, upon which he furiously punched buttons. Then he says that he can't match any of the online prices -- but countered with a very reasonable offer. We bit, and bought. All parties were happy, we got our lids and the dealer made a sale with a acceptable amount of profit.

I have found that I can often get prices reduced just by asking. Doing it in a nice way helps I have on occasion been shown the door and asked not to come back, but that is very rare.

(I have not been shown this kind of cooperation, ever, when negotiating anything tire related. Were I to offer an opinion or observation about this would result in admin activity.)

 

[juniorfjr]

The yammi dealer in our town has been good on some things and not so good on others. But before wfo, I took a rear tire in to be mounted and the price for one tire mount off the bike was 75.00. Up from the 30 I had been paying. I told him that would be the last dollar spent there and why. Now I will drive and hour and half to prosser. Even at that, I went down to have a pair of tires installed and when it came time to pay, the bill was over 500. When I got my breath back, I asked why on their web site the price was so different. They adjusted the price on the spot. So the buyer needs to beware.

 

[Groo]

+1. Did this at a local Honda dealership with a new CBR literbike. I printed out an online price andtold them it would cost me $200 to go out of town and pick it up.

"Can you match their price but I'll give you the $200?"

"No, sorry," came the reply.

I started to walk but didn't make it to the door.

Manager came over and said, "Let me take another look."

They met my price and I got a CBR locally.

I wouldn't do this for a can of chain lube but to save $100 on a helmet or tires. You betcha.

I had the opposite result when I bought my FJR. Got a price from Tony O in Texarkana, and went to the local Yammy dealership and sat down with the sales dood. After he quoted me MSRP + whatever, I told him "Look, I'd much rather buy from a local dealer, but here's the deal I have in Texarkana, and I'll even go a bit higher to keep from having to take a bus up there..."

He went and talked to the head sales guy, and after some period of time, they came back and told me that my price was below their cost (pssh), and they'd be losing money on the sale (mmmmmhm... for a bike that would be PDPd and they'd never have to do anything other than assemble it). Oh well... can't say I didn't try.

 

[Bounce]

My bottom line can be described with the Arai business plan. I used to buy and enjoy Arai helmets. Several years ago they pressured their dealer network and stopped them from on-line sales. I have never bought an Arai since.

Businesses are there to provide a product or service to customers. As their customer, I spend my money the way I see fit. One of the factors is cost and return on investment. If on-line shopping is blocked by one manufacturer, I will choose to spend my hard-earned cash with a manufacturer that understands that this is the 21st century and on-line sales is part of the landscape.

 

[SockMonkey]

My bottom line can be described with the Arai business plan. I used to buy and enjoy Arai helmets. Several years ago they pressured their dealer network and stopped them from on-line sales. I have never bought an Arai since.

I might tend to disagree with you here... https://www.helmetcity.com/ BTW: Based on past experience, I wouldn't buy a helmet anywhere else. EXCELLENT (and fast) service!!!

 

[twowheelnut]

My bottom line can be described with the Arai business plan. I used to buy and enjoy Arai helmets. Several years ago they pressured their dealer network and stopped them from on-line sales. I have never bought an Arai since.
Businesses are there to provide a product or service to customers. As their customer, I spend my money the way I see fit. One of the factors is cost and return on investment. If on-line shopping is blocked by one manufacturer, I will choose to spend my hard-earned cash with a manufacturer that understands that this is the 21st century and on-line sales is part of the landscape.

Good point, bounce and I sorta agree with you to a point: Somewhere in the process of sale, a manufacturer, a distributor and a retailer (or e-tailer) have to make a profit, otherwise they'll have no business. You can nickel and dime someone to a point where they can no longer service the products they make or sell, which will ultimately leave you hanging. Or, you can buy Chinese. :grin:

 

[Scab]

Or, you can buy Chinese. :grin:

Never bought a Chinese before. Is that legal? How much do they go for these days?

 

[odot]

If you can't buy one I guarantee you can sell one a dog or a cat.

 

[Scab]

I'm sorry, did you say something about lunch, Odot?

 

[twowheelnut]

Or, you can buy Chinese. :grin:

Never bought a Chinese before. Is that legal? How much do they go for these days?

A buck tree 80 before online discounts.