CHRIS_D
Well-known member
Where did she attend the MSF class at? Do you happen to know who her RiderCoachs where? If she dropped the bike a dozen times in class, she wouldn't of made it to Skill Eval if I was the C1. :dribble: :blink:
Ever get scared teaching someone to ride?
- Thread starter EODSarge
- Start date
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EODSarge
Well-known member
Re: Not having been trained to train her: I wholeheartedly agree. When I decide on a topic I want to teach, I create a lesson plan for it; some of them become a two-inch thick stack of paper, depending on the subject. I've never done that for something like motorcycle riding, so I don't even know where to start. I can't even go by what I might have learned in another formal class I took myself- because I've never had any! 
A friend of mine got me started when I was 19 and I took it from there (crashing along the way). I plan to set aside the time and take the MSF course myself at some point. There are 4 other guys at work giving her advice, one of them a motor officer; I think I'm going to bow out of this- I really, really don't want to watch her crash while I'm behind her. The other guys and I have swapped notes and are going to try and find a smaller bike she can borrow and try to convince her to park that beast until her skills are improved. Whether or not she'll listen and do that is another matter.
Re: Finding a guy to pilot it while she rides pillion: Heh, actually, I think she had this mind when she bought it. I'll never understand that.
Re: Where she took the course: I think she took the local one in Winder, GA; but I'm not sure about that. Might have been one in the area. She used their bikes, not the Heritage; she didn't start dropping it until after. And no, she can't pick it up- I don't know who she's been getting to lift it for her. Neighbors, I guess.
I prolly should have known better. Way back with the Seca, I let my roommate ride it in the parking area of our townhouse; he swore he'd ridden before (never ever believe that line). He started ok, a little shaky; turned slowly around, got too much front brake and felt it start to drop, grabbed too much throttle and smacked it right into the back of my car and broke the turn signal stalk off.
That was the last time I let anyone I hadn't seen ride before ride one of my bikes.
A friend of mine got me started when I was 19 and I took it from there (crashing along the way). I plan to set aside the time and take the MSF course myself at some point. There are 4 other guys at work giving her advice, one of them a motor officer; I think I'm going to bow out of this- I really, really don't want to watch her crash while I'm behind her. The other guys and I have swapped notes and are going to try and find a smaller bike she can borrow and try to convince her to park that beast until her skills are improved. Whether or not she'll listen and do that is another matter.Re: Finding a guy to pilot it while she rides pillion: Heh, actually, I think she had this mind when she bought it. I'll never understand that.
Re: Where she took the course: I think she took the local one in Winder, GA; but I'm not sure about that. Might have been one in the area. She used their bikes, not the Heritage; she didn't start dropping it until after. And no, she can't pick it up- I don't know who she's been getting to lift it for her. Neighbors, I guess.
I prolly should have known better. Way back with the Seca, I let my roommate ride it in the parking area of our townhouse; he swore he'd ridden before (never ever believe that line). He started ok, a little shaky; turned slowly around, got too much front brake and felt it start to drop, grabbed too much throttle and smacked it right into the back of my car and broke the turn signal stalk off.
That was the last time I let anyone I hadn't seen ride before ride one of my bikes.
CHRIS_D
Well-known member
Boy I'm glad I misunderstood that, I thought she dropped it a dozen times in the BRC.
By the way, if you take one of our classes I recommend ERC. Also the DDS has been kicking around adding MSF's new Sport bike class. Which I think will be a blast.
HotRodZilla
GOD BLESS AMERICA
So, I guess it has all been said already: Bike too big, Ego too big, Skill level too small. Some people are impossible to teach and she may be one of them.
BTW, my wife took a Rider's Edge course put on by the local Harley dealership. Came out of it with the same skills any MSF graduate would have had. We started off small and eventhough she still had lots to learn she began to get her basics. She was just looking over my shoulder and said she is still not ready for a "big" bike and thinks your female friend bought the Harley because she thought it was "pretty." Girls and their priorities...WTF?
My wife took the class in 2005 and was learning quick, but has since stopped riding (especially by herself) due to two pregnancies. This next baby will be our last and she will resume riding in about 8 months. We'll see.
BTW, my wife took a Rider's Edge course put on by the local Harley dealership. Came out of it with the same skills any MSF graduate would have had. We started off small and eventhough she still had lots to learn she began to get her basics. She was just looking over my shoulder and said she is still not ready for a "big" bike and thinks your female friend bought the Harley because she thought it was "pretty." Girls and their priorities...WTF?
My wife took the class in 2005 and was learning quick, but has since stopped riding (especially by herself) due to two pregnancies. This next baby will be our last and she will resume riding in about 8 months. We'll see.
cougar8000
Well-known member
No offense to anyone, oh hell who am I kidding, but please if you are not trained to teach then DON'T.
My friend has been teaching his wife after she was done with MSF. She had 3 crashes that I could not understand why she keeps making the same mistake until I found out that he was teaching her.
More people crash and burn when they are taught by their friend then if they weren't at all. I am dreading the moment my son is going to ask me to teach him. It will probably be my greatest challenge.
My friend has been teaching his wife after she was done with MSF. She had 3 crashes that I could not understand why she keeps making the same mistake until I found out that he was teaching her.
More people crash and burn when they are taught by their friend then if they weren't at all. I am dreading the moment my son is going to ask me to teach him. It will probably be my greatest challenge.
tbwrench
Well-known member
I think the bike is just too much for the persons size. Small people dont always do well on big bikes. My wife is 4'7" tall and about 115 lbs. She started out with a honda rebel and the riders edge course. I always reminded her as she was too cautious- if the wheel is turning it wants to upright itself. That kept her from tipping over at low speeds.
She then moved up to a 2002 shadow 750 I customized with 4 inches lower and 4 inch pull back risers so she could reach the bars at full turn left and right.
She is a bit uncomfortable due to the weight and slow cornering and sloped driveways. Last week I bought her a ninja 250 and today i lowered it 4 inches rear and 1.25 inches front. She seems to be comfortable on the ninja and it is very light. Its funny to see my Biker type wife on a sport bike but I am comfortable with her on this size of bike. Much easier handle. I guess buying the FJR for myself had influenced her opinion of sport type bikes and she likes them now hence her wanting the ninja.
I would encourage your friend to get alot of practice and make sure the bike fits her height, and reach or the tipping over will probably continue.
best wishes, tbwrench.
She then moved up to a 2002 shadow 750 I customized with 4 inches lower and 4 inch pull back risers so she could reach the bars at full turn left and right.
She is a bit uncomfortable due to the weight and slow cornering and sloped driveways. Last week I bought her a ninja 250 and today i lowered it 4 inches rear and 1.25 inches front. She seems to be comfortable on the ninja and it is very light. Its funny to see my Biker type wife on a sport bike but I am comfortable with her on this size of bike. Much easier handle. I guess buying the FJR for myself had influenced her opinion of sport type bikes and she likes them now hence her wanting the ninja.
I would encourage your friend to get alot of practice and make sure the bike fits her height, and reach or the tipping over will probably continue.
best wishes, tbwrench.
I think you missed my point, YES, the Heritage is not a starter bike! BUT, that's the bike she has, would it be better if she got a smaller bike to learn on? DUH, of course. That said, I've seen lots of people start out on the bike that they WANTED, period, no talking them out of it. One of my close friends took an MSF course and got on the waiting list for an '04 FJR, against everyones recomendations. He's doing fine 25,000 miles later. I've seen many people start out on 7-800 pound motorcycles after taking a course and without taking a course. It CAN be done. Now there's also the people that simply are not suited to riding a motorcycle, hopefully they find that out before they get hurt.
Back to the Harley, if that's her dream and the bike she wants to learn to ride put an engine guard on it to protect her and the bike and go to a PARKING LOT and practice the basics in a reletivly safe environment. She will have to either learn to ride it or convince herself that it's too much bike or that motorcycling is not for her. But she will have to make that desision herself.
DC
Back to the Harley, if that's her dream and the bike she wants to learn to ride put an engine guard on it to protect her and the bike and go to a PARKING LOT and practice the basics in a reletivly safe environment. She will have to either learn to ride it or convince herself that it's too much bike or that motorcycling is not for her. But she will have to make that desision herself.
DC
cougar8000
Well-known member
And follow the mythology that if it does not kill it will only makes you stronger???
I don't think so. If it was a betting game I would be betting high that she either crashes or quits.
I don't think so. If it was a betting game I would be betting high that she either crashes or quits.
people got away from the old school way to learn snow skiiing too. it's no longer the norm to toss someone on a pair of 250 competitions and leave them to their own devices. "graduated" learning is the methodology that everyone understands and accepts. iow: start out small and work your way up. there's a reason for it in skiiing and there's a reason why people recommending it with bikes. in the end, the rider will be better for it.
Crashes, quits, or learns.......and it may be I need a smaller bike, no bike, or how to ride the behemoth. Like I said, in a parking lot with engine guards and of course protective gear so she won't get hurt.
As a rider coach, you know people have different learning styles and different rates at which they learn, simply telling someone they bought the wrong bike won't work with everyone. First you are attacking their judgment and telling them that something they are immensely proud of is a mistake, which attacks their ego.
I think it would be better to put her in a non threatening environment and let her convince herself, or maybe even learn to ride the damn thing. It's going to have to be her choice and if everyone just says you can't ride that big bike she will get hurt trying to prove them wrong.
DC
RiderCoach Lar
FJRm'd and dangerous
Never said she bought the wrong bike. I said what her salesman at the Harley dealer didn't have the balls to say: it's the wrong bike for her to use at this point in her development. Park it until until you've gained more experience. Then again, I'm sure he or she was FAR more concerned with selling a bike than assisting her in becoming a proficient rider. IMHO, that's the #1 flaw with any rider education program that's sponsored by a manufacturer.
Unless she has narcissistic tendencies, she should be listening to people who have been trained and are qualified to teach her how to ride, not assuming they're incompetent and are attacking her better judgment. She obviously doesn't have, or hasn't learned better judgment. If I'm trying to learn a new skill and my teacher tells me I should be doing something another way in order to expedite my learning and avoid seriously hurting myself or others, I don't take that as an attack on my judgment and I'm guessing she wouldn't either.
If it's her ego that's keeping her on the wrong bike, that's a big problem which I'll gladly attack if it'll ultimately save her from injuring herself or others. What I hear you describing is a little too much of the tail wagging the dog. WAY too much at risk here to allow that.
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My opinion as a coach is to suggest she park the bike and buy a cheap small bike from craigslist or eBay. The bike is simply to big for her skill level. If, she starts with something small she will get the technique sooner and allow her to move the larger bike and enjoy her self sooner. The longer she rides scared the more her odds increase of a crash. She can buy a $700-$1000 bike and ride it for months, or a year then sell it for the same amount.
Suggest taking the class again also.
The key is not to tell her the bike she has is the incorrect one, it simply requires more skill then she currently has. If, she really loves the bike she needs to build her skills first. Do everything you can to get her to park the bike, not only for her sake, but to prevent the bike from being dropped and cause damage.
Can a rider come out of the MSF course and ride a larger bike? Sometimes. Do I suggest it? Absolutely not!!! Some people learn faster then others. Some people learn motor controls faster then others. Some people can relax during stressful events. Some people multitask better then others and can handle all the controls required to operate a motorcycle easier. With that said, I have seen people ace the class and I still suggest a 500cc or smaller bike, not a blast. If, someone drops a bike during the class in no way shape or form should they be on anything larger then a 500cc to start.
You mention the right turn being a issue right. I do agree the head and eyes is more then likely a issue. However, there is a good chance she is shifting the weight of the bike to her left foot, since she can't flat foot. Remember, we teach student to put their left foot down first. Now, that she is out of class and can not put both feet on the ground anyway she is more then likely doing a short cut and not putting her right foot down at all, or not using it to balance the bike. This mean she is attempting to make a right turn with the bike already slightly leaned to the left. If she can not flat foot the bike it is to big for her, as a beginner.
Can a experienced rider ride a tall bike? Yes, once they do not fear the bike, acceleration, turn the head, looking 4-12 seconds ahead, and so on. The experienced rider does not have to think about the lean or the bike falling over during a stop, their experience has given them the muscle memory they need to not focus on the operation of the bike. If, you are an experience rider did you think "I need to look right, roll on the throttle, ease out the clutch, pick my feet up, turn the handle bars right, roll on the throttle more, ease out the clutch more, let the bike lean, and continue to look 4-12 seconds ahead" last time you made a right turn?
She is scared of the bike. The duck walking at stop signs and slow accelerations is an example of this. If, she is braking really early and walking the bike to a stop she more then likely is scared of the braking also. And, the fear of braking is dangerous. The more she does this on a heavy tall bike the more she will be scared. She more then likely is to scared to focus on the technique and how to get better.
She needs to get the technique down before moving to a big bike.
To answer your question, yes it does scare me from time to time. Three weeks ago I had a student pop the clutch, roll the throttle, scare herself, target fixate on me and aim right at me. I moved, she adjust and still headed right at me. As she scared herself, she put her foot down like a set of ski and let go of the throttle, no way for her to brake. At the last possible moment I moved (jumped) to her right and hit the engine cut off switch as she went by. She froze as soon as she started heading right at me. After I got her stopped she cried for 15 minutes before I could calm her down. Damn buell blasts!!! Pop the clutch and the bike accelerates. Second and last time I teach with those damn bikes.
Suggest taking the class again also.
The key is not to tell her the bike she has is the incorrect one, it simply requires more skill then she currently has. If, she really loves the bike she needs to build her skills first. Do everything you can to get her to park the bike, not only for her sake, but to prevent the bike from being dropped and cause damage.
Can a rider come out of the MSF course and ride a larger bike? Sometimes. Do I suggest it? Absolutely not!!! Some people learn faster then others. Some people learn motor controls faster then others. Some people can relax during stressful events. Some people multitask better then others and can handle all the controls required to operate a motorcycle easier. With that said, I have seen people ace the class and I still suggest a 500cc or smaller bike, not a blast. If, someone drops a bike during the class in no way shape or form should they be on anything larger then a 500cc to start.
You mention the right turn being a issue right. I do agree the head and eyes is more then likely a issue. However, there is a good chance she is shifting the weight of the bike to her left foot, since she can't flat foot. Remember, we teach student to put their left foot down first. Now, that she is out of class and can not put both feet on the ground anyway she is more then likely doing a short cut and not putting her right foot down at all, or not using it to balance the bike. This mean she is attempting to make a right turn with the bike already slightly leaned to the left. If she can not flat foot the bike it is to big for her, as a beginner.
Can a experienced rider ride a tall bike? Yes, once they do not fear the bike, acceleration, turn the head, looking 4-12 seconds ahead, and so on. The experienced rider does not have to think about the lean or the bike falling over during a stop, their experience has given them the muscle memory they need to not focus on the operation of the bike. If, you are an experience rider did you think "I need to look right, roll on the throttle, ease out the clutch, pick my feet up, turn the handle bars right, roll on the throttle more, ease out the clutch more, let the bike lean, and continue to look 4-12 seconds ahead" last time you made a right turn?
She is scared of the bike. The duck walking at stop signs and slow accelerations is an example of this. If, she is braking really early and walking the bike to a stop she more then likely is scared of the braking also. And, the fear of braking is dangerous. The more she does this on a heavy tall bike the more she will be scared. She more then likely is to scared to focus on the technique and how to get better.
She needs to get the technique down before moving to a big bike.
To answer your question, yes it does scare me from time to time. Three weeks ago I had a student pop the clutch, roll the throttle, scare herself, target fixate on me and aim right at me. I moved, she adjust and still headed right at me. As she scared herself, she put her foot down like a set of ski and let go of the throttle, no way for her to brake. At the last possible moment I moved (jumped) to her right and hit the engine cut off switch as she went by. She froze as soon as she started heading right at me. After I got her stopped she cried for 15 minutes before I could calm her down. Damn buell blasts!!! Pop the clutch and the bike accelerates. Second and last time I teach with those damn bikes.
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Lar, You obviously have a problem with Harley, like I said before, I have a friend that bought an FJR without a license, that wasn’t a Harley dealer, it was a dealer. They’re all the same, they need to sell, and I've seen people buy what they wanted no matter what the sales person tells them.
I keep hearing I, and me form you, it’s not about you, it’s about the new rider. We don’t really disagree, we just have different styles, just like the different learning styles. You want to TELL her, I want SHOW her. And we will never know who’s right because it depends on her learning style. We are both right/wrong. There are no absolutes trying to teach someone how to ride. As soon as I think I know what’s going on someone throws a surprise my way, and I learn something. It’s pretty cool and why I do it.
I keep hearing I, and me form you, it’s not about you, it’s about the new rider. We don’t really disagree, we just have different styles, just like the different learning styles. You want to TELL her, I want SHOW her. And we will never know who’s right because it depends on her learning style. We are both right/wrong. There are no absolutes trying to teach someone how to ride. As soon as I think I know what’s going on someone throws a surprise my way, and I learn something. It’s pretty cool and why I do it.
RiderCoach Lar
FJRm'd and dangerous
I have no problem with Harley. Interesting what you perceive as "obvious". As I thought I stated fairly clearly, I don't support a "rider education program that's sponsored by a manufacturer". Rider's Edge is quite obviously just that. Doesn't mean I "have a problem with Harley". I don't agree with you're response to EODSarge's dilemma in this thread; doesn't mean I have a problem with you.
For the record, I do have a problem with ANY motorcycle salesperson who ignores a new rider's skill level for the sake of selling a bike. Unfortunately, that's a very large percentage. Wouldn't agree they're "all the same" as I know quite a few who understand the value of selling a new rider the right bike. I agree that people buy what they want and not necessarily what may be best for them. The women who is the subject of this thread couldn't be a more perfect example.
Finally, when stating opinions on subjects I feel qualified to have an opinion on, such as rider education, for example, it's difficult to express those opinions without using words like "I" or "me". My opinions most certainly are about me and I can assure you they're not random or baseless. In fact, in scanning this thread, my opinion on the problem stated in post #1 is shared by others, including other experienced instructors. When it comes to rider education, yes, I have very strong opinions, especially when it comes to inexperienced riders making decisions...or being allowed to make decisions...that are likely to unnecessarily increase their risk of injury....or worse.
Make no mistake, we most definitely do disagree on this subject. You have stated that this young lady's bike is not the problem. I firmly believe it is the overwhelming majority, if not her entire problem.
I'm okay with that............won't ever let you teach my kids how to ride, but I'm okay with you disagreeing with me
For the record, I do have a problem with ANY motorcycle salesperson who ignores a new rider's skill level for the sake of selling a bike. Unfortunately, that's a very large percentage. Wouldn't agree they're "all the same" as I know quite a few who understand the value of selling a new rider the right bike. I agree that people buy what they want and not necessarily what may be best for them. The women who is the subject of this thread couldn't be a more perfect example.
Finally, when stating opinions on subjects I feel qualified to have an opinion on, such as rider education, for example, it's difficult to express those opinions without using words like "I" or "me". My opinions most certainly are about me and I can assure you they're not random or baseless. In fact, in scanning this thread, my opinion on the problem stated in post #1 is shared by others, including other experienced instructors. When it comes to rider education, yes, I have very strong opinions, especially when it comes to inexperienced riders making decisions...or being allowed to make decisions...that are likely to unnecessarily increase their risk of injury....or worse.
Make no mistake, we most definitely do disagree on this subject. You have stated that this young lady's bike is not the problem. I firmly believe it is the overwhelming majority, if not her entire problem.
I'm okay with that............won't ever let you teach my kids how to ride, but I'm okay with you disagreeing with me
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dhalen32
Well-known member
dc1300:
I am both an MSF RiderCoach Trainer and Rider's Edge Instructor. I am not anti-Harley. I own 2 Buells in addition to my FJR. However, I agree with what you have already heard from the other MSF RiderCoaches in this thread. If your friend can afford to buy or knows someone from whom she can borrow a smaller bike, like a Rebel, Eliminator, GZ250, Nighthawk, Blast, etc her learning will be much easier on both of you and her success will likely come sooner. These small bikes are surprisingly affordable when purchased used and can frequently be sold for what you paid for them. Your friend sounds very determined so it seems unlikely she would be discouraged if you finesse her into learning on a smaller bike. That Heritage will wait patiently for her.
Larry:
Please remember that the MSF IS nothing more than 12 motorcycle manufacturers who would prefer to keep their customers alive so that they can buy motorcycles in the future.
I'm not sure why you are wary of Rider's Edge version of the BRC but if you consider taking a closer look, you will find that the range activities are identical to what you currently do and the additional classroom activities are actually superior. The marketing embedded into the curriculum is actually quite minimal. It consists of an initial tour of the dealership, a get acquainted activity involving H-D's history and when you first talk about motorcycle types you are asked to get the students classifying various Buell and H-D models as "touring", "cruiser", "standard", etc. I was a bit concerned when I was first asked to join a program. Once I saw what they did in the classroom and why I jumped in with both feet. You might be surprised.
Dave
I am both an MSF RiderCoach Trainer and Rider's Edge Instructor. I am not anti-Harley. I own 2 Buells in addition to my FJR. However, I agree with what you have already heard from the other MSF RiderCoaches in this thread. If your friend can afford to buy or knows someone from whom she can borrow a smaller bike, like a Rebel, Eliminator, GZ250, Nighthawk, Blast, etc her learning will be much easier on both of you and her success will likely come sooner. These small bikes are surprisingly affordable when purchased used and can frequently be sold for what you paid for them. Your friend sounds very determined so it seems unlikely she would be discouraged if you finesse her into learning on a smaller bike. That Heritage will wait patiently for her.
Larry:
Please remember that the MSF IS nothing more than 12 motorcycle manufacturers who would prefer to keep their customers alive so that they can buy motorcycles in the future.
I'm not sure why you are wary of Rider's Edge version of the BRC but if you consider taking a closer look, you will find that the range activities are identical to what you currently do and the additional classroom activities are actually superior. The marketing embedded into the curriculum is actually quite minimal. It consists of an initial tour of the dealership, a get acquainted activity involving H-D's history and when you first talk about motorcycle types you are asked to get the students classifying various Buell and H-D models as "touring", "cruiser", "standard", etc. I was a bit concerned when I was first asked to join a program. Once I saw what they did in the classroom and why I jumped in with both feet. You might be surprised.
Dave
cougar8000
Well-known member
Bow down to John T.
John if you ever run for the President you got my vote so smooth, so diplomatic.
There is really nothing that I can add to what has been said by other instructors. DC, you can go ahead and think that we are a Hardley, no I did not misspell it, haters or what ever. Bottom line we spent way too much time reading, learning and teaching it to know a bit more then your average Joe.
It is your friend and you can do what ever you think is right by bth of you. No matter what we say.
Dave,
You right. Niether Larry nor I ever taught Riders Edge. But fom what I hear from other instructors here locally 500 Buell is not the bets bike for a new riders.
I was told that they need needed people couple years ago and I stop by and inquire about it. They obviously saw that I pulled in on a rice burner and was told that they are full. next week instructor that works for them telling me that they are still looking for people. So, squeeze me if I am a bit judge mental about them, but not the bike itself.
John if you ever run for the President you got my vote
so smooth, so diplomatic.There is really nothing that I can add to what has been said by other instructors. DC, you can go ahead and think that we are a Hardley, no I did not misspell it, haters or what ever. Bottom line we spent way too much time reading, learning and teaching it to know a bit more then your average Joe.
It is your friend and you can do what ever you think is right by bth of you. No matter what we say.
Dave,
You right. Niether Larry nor I ever taught Riders Edge. But fom what I hear from other instructors here locally 500 Buell is not the bets bike for a new riders.
I was told that they need needed people couple years ago and I stop by and inquire about it. They obviously saw that I pulled in on a rice burner and was told that they are full. next week instructor that works for them telling me that they are still looking for people. So, squeeze me if I am a bit judge mental about them, but not the bike itself.
RiderCoach Lar
FJRm'd and dangerous
Fixed that for you.Larry
I never said I was wary of Rider's Edge version of the BRC. The curriculum is fine. The bias against any brand other than their own, you know, the "embedded marketing" that you refer to, is what I believe detracts from the educational aspect and I don't find it to be minimal.
I appreciate your suggestion that I take a closer look. Having been dogged by a local dealer (at the same time as being questioned about my choice of bike :blink: ), I've observed classes and have talked to numerous instructors like yourself who teach both. In addition, I've read the statistics on their pass rates & accident rates. I feel I've done more than my due diligence and I'm quite comfortable with my opinion regarding the program. With all due respect, neither you nor dc1300 have changed that opinion.
At the risk of further hijacking EODSarge's thread, not to mention violating the forum's No Politics rule, I'm not going to discuss my views of Rider's Edge any further here.
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EODSarge
Well-known member
happyPuppy
Well-known member
A lot of great comments. I think it is pretty clear that the bike is too much for her at this point. A lot of people believe in the "growing into" myth. Both my boys want to ride and of course it starts with 600cc and up SB's. I told them no way is it safe and 250-500cc Ninja's look good and are fine to start with. My favorite line " It will not be your last bike, only your first, do you want to wreck your dream bike?" Teens are invincible as we all know. She needs to quit damaging herself and bike and get a used started and learn to ride it well, as many have pointed out. Perhaps if she rode one around for a a week or so on a 250cc she would learn to enjoy it and to have fun riding vs dumping it.
