Exhaust System or Top End Work?

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USMC CWO

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I've been trying to decide which mod will give me more bang for my buck with my next performance mod. On one hand I can get a complete exhaust system for around $900. On the other hand I can have a very reputable local bike shop D-port and polish my top end for about $1,000. My research is telling me that I will get a little more power from the engine work while still maintaining smoothness. I can't afford both right now so I have to figure which one to do first. I'm leaning toward the engine work but would like some advise/suggestions/thoughts from the forum.

This is for an 07 with PCIII USB, K&N air filter, new ECU, and stock pipes.

 
The weight reduction from the new header and exhaust is a factor that you won't get with the port and polish.

I'm not the person to give you a good technical answer, but I am interested in the results if you do get it ported and polished.

Make sure you have a dyno done before and after so you can identify the actual HP and torque gains.

 
If you want the best bang for your buck, spend it on tires and suspension.

If your "weight challenged" then buy the exhaust system and go on a diet. :unsure:

 
If you want the best bang for your buck, spend it on tires and suspension.
If your "weight challenged" then buy the exhaust system and go on a diet. :unsure:
Tire upgrades are in the works. I'm going to try Dunlop's new Roadstars. I also am looking to get the GP upgrade to my forks and I just installed a Heli Performance triple tree. This is part of the reason for my funding shortage.

Now the question for me is which engine mod to do next?

 
If you want the best bang for your buck, spend it on tires and suspension.
If your "weight challenged" then buy the exhaust system and go on a diet. :unsure:
Tire upgrades are in the works. I'm going to try Dunlop's new Roadstars. I also am looking to get the GP upgrade to my forks and I just installed a Heli Performance triple tree. This is part of the reason for my funding shortage.

Now the question for me is which engine mod to do next?
Don't neglect your rear shock. The stocker is pretty soft, but that also doesn't answer your question....

 
Whichever performance mod you choose, follow it up with a custom map for the PCIII so you can get the most out of the mods.

 
First, what makes you think the FJR's head is so bad as to need a port & polish? This isn't 1973.

Second, the results of the head work will likely go unrealized with the stock exhaust.

So... 2 words for you: diminishing returns. Lots of money spent with little gained.

To justify the expense of the head work you need to see a net gain of at least 10 HP.

I'm not an engine builder but I feel that is somewhat speculative at best.

I doubt I'd change your mind so be a pioneer and boldly go where you think best.

 
"Make sure you have a dyno done before and after so you can identify the actual HP and torque gains."

But if you do that and only see 1 HP gain for a grand you'll feel bad, instead of just being able to say "man it's way faster now". :glare:

 
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I used to work with my brother in at his Ford engine rebuilding buisness. There is so much more to just some head work to make it work. They need to be able to flow the heads before, after and during to make sure that they are not hurting the flow numbers. Also you better be ready to look for a new head if they do too much and hit a water galley, do not ask how I know this. If they do all this work and do not change the valve size and the cam, the engine is really not going to breath any better than it did before or at least not enough for you to notice the difference on the street.

I had also thought of doing this to my FJR when the head was off getting the "tick" fixed, but after really looking at it with my brother and the guy next door who races drag bikes, just decided that it was not worth the problems.

You could always thing about a shot of nitros. :rolleyes: The snowmobile guys are doing it the the Yamaha four strokes.

Neal

 
This engine is not going to benefit from porting and polishing as much as you think it will. If you're modifying an engine by installing a larger cam which will increase the peak horsepower and torque at higher rpms you will of course need to allow it to breathe well with an intake and exhaust that will not choke the camshaft.

Secondly, blindly porting and polishing is not always a good idea. Exhaust ports are the only ones that should be polished to aid flow. Intakes need a slightly rough surface to provide a small amount of turbulence to help keep the air/fuel mixture in suspension. Increasing the port size on the intake without making other changes may help high rpm horsepower if the other components on and in the engine are capable of flowing as well as the modified port. The most likely result from increasing intake port size is a decrease in intake charge velocity which results in decreased torque and diminished throttle response.

My suggestion is to just go with the exhaust mods. Top end mods will affect the good torque spread this engine has and actually could result in less power through most, if not all, the powerband.

 
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Exhaust ports are the only ones that should be polished to aid flow. Intakes need a slightly rough surface to provide a small amount of turbulence to help keep the air/fuel mixture in suspension.
I have done this very process on v-twins with tremendous results. Intake rough d-shape, exhaust smooooth. On some I changed the cams and valves, on others I left everything stock. This is exactly why I am asking this question about the FJR. What I am gathering is that on this bike the ports in the head line up nicely with the intake and exhaust and therefore, minimize the return on investment of having this kind of work done.

So unless someone can provide information/experience to the contrary, I will go with the exhaust.

Thanks

 
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Having spent money I did not have on something that I did not need...

I made my HD neighbors sooo proud of me when I arrived from WFO and announced, "I bought pipes!". They are so easily amused. I digress...

Remus Hexacones are really nice pipes. Baffles out they offer some increased top end. Baffles-in, they match the overall decibel rating of the stockers with a much improved tone. Baffles-in, the FJR's famous low-end torque remains intact. I'll take torque over top-end HP on anything that easily exceeds 150 mph in a stock config.

If you are determined to spend $$$ on something, and you certainly seem to be. I say pipes, make them Remus.

 
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Since we are talking exhaust....and a full system (thus eliminating the restrictions of the cats) with a PCIII custom programmed on a dyno is the best way to go. Does Remus make a header-muffler combo?

 
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Make it the pipes, you need the cats out to get flow benefits from head work.

I'd be surprised if you can find someone with any FJR head porting experience, it ain't that easy. I have a flow bench with data acquisition system in my garage. You can't just employ porting that worked in system A, on system B. High flow doesn't always mean high HP. I have copied some big V8 heads, and made good HP. I've also paid the expert for some flow work for a set of rarer heads because he has down the homework already. Picture a pile of expensive heads, tried that didn't work .... etc.

At least now I have a set of ports to model, and all the flow numbers and HP.

Try to cc balance the chambers, and do a little clean up work on the ports. Smooth out the casting marks. As stated earlier, rough intakes and smooth exhausts. Any head that is off an engine in my place gets that. Have you seen my lawn mower? LOL

If it was me, I would go back with the turbo idea. PC, some kind of programmable ignition, and boost control. I bet even some of these guys would put down their knitting to check it out.

 
Powerman, you made many good statements which I agree with, but I'd like to expand on the comment about cc balancing the chambers. Although widely done by many machine shops, it really is a useless endeavor unless it has been verified that the piston deck heights are equal. Remember, calculation of actual compression ratio includes the volume above the top ring to the block deck.

Having built a fair number of engines, I've found that the piston deck height varies from cylinder to cylinder. Once you measure the piston deck height for a given cylinder you can then adjust the combustion chamber volume accordingly to make sure each cylinder has the same compression ratio.

For example, cylinders that have pistons closer to the deck would have larger combustion chamber volumes than cylinders with less clearance from the block to the deck. Accurately measuring deck volume is tedious work as the top piston ring gap has to be sealed with grease to prevent fluid leakage beyond the ring when measuring.

Using this method, you can get consistent compression ratios out to the second decimal point (hundreths).

I would use a dial indicator and a deck fixture for the indicator to do a spot check on the piston deck heights before cc'ing the head. Of course you have to make sure each piston is at TDC. If there are measurable differences, you could do a rough calculation using the bore diameter and deck height differences and then use that volume and compare it with the volume of the matching combustion chamber. If you want to make changes, be careful to remove very little material and not to alter the shape of the chamber. And remember, when you do balance you do it by lowering the compression to match, not raising it, so be careful not to grind away too much.

 
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Deck height is important, but less of a factor in his application. If you need that last tiny fraction of a hp, yes. At that level you need perfect everything.

You can measure it, and make allowances for it. Pretty hard to do anything about making them equal, unless you have individual cylinders like an air cooled jugs and can put in spacers.

 
Full exhaust has sooo many benefits. To name a few:

- Increased HP, not much, like +2 to +5HP

- reduced heat to rider from cat removal (Biggest benefit for my '05)

- Sweeeeet sound! Loud pipes save lives right?

- Reduced weight

- Visible bling, particularly with the Remus (I have the Holeshot full system)

Get a custom map, and do the dyno tuning as well, in order to realize the full gain

My 2 cents...

 
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