Knifemaker
Not me
Life goes by pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around sometimes, you'll miss it.
-Ferris Bueller
-Ferris Bueller
Experienced a Little Glimpse of Mortality Today...
- Thread starter Ignacio
- Start date
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Situations like this is why I have never had the urge to fly. I like to find myself securely fastened to terra firma.
Glad you made it out OK,
Dave
Glad you made it out OK,
Dave
CrabbyJack
Well-known member
My instructor used to pull the throttle back, turn the ignition key off, pull the key out of the switch and stick it in his shirt pocket. Then he'd say "OK now what are you going to do?"
gixxerjasen
Well-known member
So, based on what is said here from others, are you going back up again?
mcatrophy
Privileged to ride a 2018 FJR1300AS
Why not? Most of us have had "Oh, sh*t" moments on our bikes. We may go through a moment of doubt, but that soon passes. Then it's back to doing what, for us, makes life enjoyable.
Hopefully, we do learn lessons from such experiences.
Panman
Well-known member
Glad you and your instructor pulled pulled thru with no real damage. I had to look up costro-condral rib, lets hope you don't have any back lash to that. Be safe
hppants
Well-known member
Wow Iggy - that was something.
My question is from left field. I am assuming that the insurance for the plane simulates the rest of the motor vehicle world. The owner carries the coverage, and the plane is covered at Actual Cash Value. When you signed up for lessons and/or to rent the plane, did you purchase a separate policy? Do you have any personal exposure? If this is too personal, just tell me to STFU and I'll understand....
My question is from left field. I am assuming that the insurance for the plane simulates the rest of the motor vehicle world. The owner carries the coverage, and the plane is covered at Actual Cash Value. When you signed up for lessons and/or to rent the plane, did you purchase a separate policy? Do you have any personal exposure? If this is too personal, just tell me to STFU and I'll understand....
The certified flight instructor was the pilot flying, demonstrating the engine out maneuver. More importantly, with a student pilot on board, the CFI carries the legal burden of "pilot in command", the person directly responsible for, and the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft. And so from a legal exposure, Iggy was merely a passenger. The CFI was unfortunate, and Iggy was blameless.
Iggy has another great story to add to his long string of such stories: "Hey, did I tell you about the time I crashed an airplane..."
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SouthernCruizer
Is it Beer:30 yet?
Glad to hear you guys made it out ok. I had an engine out emergency landing in a Cessna 177 back in 2002. Landed in a corn field, full stall landing, only about a hundred feet roll out, zero damage to the aircraft. After FAA investigation and mechanic fixing problem, 3 days later was able to fly it out of the same corn field.
My biggest take on my experience is that when the prop is dead stopped, the glide ratio is drastically reduced...aircraft drops much faster than when engine at idle. Don't let this freak you out...keep practicing your emergency descent drills as often as you can.
Riding your motorcycle in day to day traffic is still way more dangerous than flying.
My biggest take on my experience is that when the prop is dead stopped, the glide ratio is drastically reduced...aircraft drops much faster than when engine at idle. Don't let this freak you out...keep practicing your emergency descent drills as often as you can.
Riding your motorcycle in day to day traffic is still way more dangerous than flying.
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RichDoyle
Well-known member
gixxerjasen
Well-known member
Absolutely, but if you've been following along, others have hung up their hat. I've wrecked my motorcycle and been sitting in the hospital waiting on x-rays trying to figure out what the next bike I'm gonna get is. Dropping out of the sky I think could potentially have a different effect on my decisions. I just was curious, based on others comments here if he was planning to go back up again or if he was going to walk away from it. No judging either way, just curious. I've dreamed of flying all my life, just never been able to make it happen.
mcatrophy
Privileged to ride a 2018 FJR1300AS
I fully respect anybody's decision to decide to quit any activity where they've had a close call, or even seen or heard of someone else having a close call. I am not going to label anyone a whimp for that decision.
As far as I can tell, most motorcyclists who've had an "incident", whether or not under their control, have continued riding, you are such an example. Some choose to give up, either deciding for themselves or because of pressure from family or friends. But they appear to be the minority. Our brains seem to prefer the pleasure we get from the overall experience of an activity than the safety of not doing it.
This goes for skiing, mountaineering, skydiving, scuba-diving - name your own potentially dangerous activity - even rowing solo across the Atlantic, though for some I'm sure it's because they can't afford the air fare.
Which brings us back to a "close call" in a light aircraft. Yes, it was probably exciting, even frightening, at the time. But it was a "good landing", all the occupants walked away. Much less of a danger signal than your experience where you were obviously hurt considerably. What did you do? Before you even knew what you had done to yourself, you were choosing your next ride.
Motorcyclists may be more risk-accepting than the average person, I suspect we are, though no more so than other extreme sports activists. Ignacio is a motorcyclist, so is probably more risk-accepting than ...
If he chooses to give up his piloting, that's his decision. Not a bad one, he'll save a load of farkling dollars. But my guess is that he's more likely to want to continue flying than not.
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Yep, the CFI was the PIC and responsible for the flight. Fairly normal exercise, but given it was a windy day, maybe left for another flight. The CFI may get tagged with a pilot deviation. I'm sure the airplane owner was not happy.
Looks like the initial report out on the event has both of you with 'minor injuries' and the airplane has 'substantial damage'. Glad you both walked away from it. Major lesson learn you'll not forget.
Looks like the initial report out on the event has both of you with 'minor injuries' and the airplane has 'substantial damage'. Glad you both walked away from it. Major lesson learn you'll not forget.
RichDoyle
Well-known member
Having had two of my airplanes totaled (by others - no fatalities) AND one was a student of mine flying on a cross-country solo I can speak with some experience on how this is handled. Aircraft insurance is slightly different than automotive.
Normally, the aircraft value for insurance purposes is predetermined at the time the insurance is established/renewed. For example, my current plane is insured for $110K (with, possibly $1000 deductible). So if the plane is deemed totaled, based on this predetermined amount and the usual repair/salvage cost factors, as with cars. I'll get $109K-110K, depending on whether the deductible applies. In both my aforementioned cases, I knew how much I'd get.
Now you may see an opportunity for an insurance scam here, and there was a time you might be right. But these days the insurance companies won't allow you an outrageously inflated coverage price beforehand. But it can be somewhat more than you'd actually get by selling it.
As to the instructor, he'll wind up with an accident on his record, which could affect his own premiums for future aviation insurance he may come to have. Prudent Flight Instructors will carry their own insurance for their own liability in an accident. If Iggy's instructor works for the school/club who owns the plane, he's probably OK. But independent Flight Instructors using others' planes could wind up with financial liability.
It is common for pilots who fly others' planes (FBOs or whatever) to carry non-owner insurance to cover their financial liability when something happens when PIC.
As to whether the CFI will suffer some kind of certificate action by the FAA, it's hard to predict. In the case of the student wrecking my Cessna 150, I had to take a proficiency check ride with an FAA inspector. This to ensure I knew how to teach folks how to properly operate in the pattern. As to the folks who wrecked my planes, my student went on to get her PPL and my friend who wrecked my Cherokee in 1983 still flies to this day and owns two aircraft. Oh, and he's still a good friend of mine.
Normally, the aircraft value for insurance purposes is predetermined at the time the insurance is established/renewed. For example, my current plane is insured for $110K (with, possibly $1000 deductible). So if the plane is deemed totaled, based on this predetermined amount and the usual repair/salvage cost factors, as with cars. I'll get $109K-110K, depending on whether the deductible applies. In both my aforementioned cases, I knew how much I'd get.
Now you may see an opportunity for an insurance scam here, and there was a time you might be right. But these days the insurance companies won't allow you an outrageously inflated coverage price beforehand. But it can be somewhat more than you'd actually get by selling it.
As to the instructor, he'll wind up with an accident on his record, which could affect his own premiums for future aviation insurance he may come to have. Prudent Flight Instructors will carry their own insurance for their own liability in an accident. If Iggy's instructor works for the school/club who owns the plane, he's probably OK. But independent Flight Instructors using others' planes could wind up with financial liability.
It is common for pilots who fly others' planes (FBOs or whatever) to carry non-owner insurance to cover their financial liability when something happens when PIC.
As to whether the CFI will suffer some kind of certificate action by the FAA, it's hard to predict. In the case of the student wrecking my Cessna 150, I had to take a proficiency check ride with an FAA inspector. This to ensure I knew how to teach folks how to properly operate in the pattern. As to the folks who wrecked my planes, my student went on to get her PPL and my friend who wrecked my Cherokee in 1983 still flies to this day and owns two aircraft. Oh, and he's still a good friend of mine.
RichDoyle
Well-known member
Oh, and the aircraft owner might actually be delighted.
I think they liked this particular plane. It was one of the newer/less hour 172's in their fleet, had a few of the better toys (e.g. Garmin 430) and a was popular becuase of the Seahawks paint scheme.Oh, and the aircraft owner might actually be delighted.
I know the FBO/Flight School owner personally and she's danged happy nobody was hurt...and this isn't the first plane that's had an insurance claim I'm sure. She's second generation FBO and it's part of the business.
I made contact with another instructor I've flown with once post incident and he's cool with me scheduling him later this week. Going up with a CFI2 in instructor after this event even though I'm solo endorsed is my next move. I'm going to treat this as a learning experience and opportunity to learn more from another instructor.
Niehart
Pie Smuggler
^^^ Like ^^^
Just like any other endeavor in life, how any two people interact and communicate is unique. So if you have the chance during the course of your private flight instruction, do fly with other instructors as convenient. Each teacher will have their own bit of knowledge and experience that they present in a way that'll be best suited to you, and if they're sharp, they'll also become a bit better teacher from the experience, too.
PhilJet09
Nondescript FJR Hierarchy Displayed
I'll tell you about my off airport landing following a sub-idle engine situation while towing a banner in a Citabria some day over a beer.
Better yet, the time a buddy and I nearly pancaked a highly modified C-150 doing a helicopter landing in high winds.
Better yet, the time a buddy and I nearly pancaked a highly modified C-150 doing a helicopter landing in high winds.
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Uncle Hud
Just another blob of protoplasm using up your oxyg
Fully respect your commitment to continue -- "if it feels good, do it." You learn from your own mistakes, but it's also good to learn from the mistakes that others make. You learned a good one, eh?
Made me wonder about ATGATT for Cessna pilots .... I guess there isn't any.
Be careful up there, brother. The "straight to body bags" quip applies a lot more often in aviation than motorbiking.
( ..... and happy birthday!)
Made me wonder about ATGATT for Cessna pilots .... I guess there isn't any.
Be careful up there, brother. The "straight to body bags" quip applies a lot more often in aviation than motorbiking.
( ..... and happy birthday!)
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