Failure to start when hot!? Battery or Starter?

[luvtoride]

Unless Slappy has gotten a new job out yonder he is still a right coaster.

He has... and we miss you Travis!!!!!

 

[NoCage]

Mine has done this before as well, after getting gas. Wouldn't turn over...but then would fire up about a min later. Scared the crap outta me. Its happened a couple of times, mines an 05.

Same for me, also on an '05.

 

[ahamlin01]

05, and mine did it again yesterday - a little throttle and it starts right up though - never need to wait. Time for a new battery I guess, based on all these comments...

 

[slapnpop]

Let me begin by saying that I'm guessing it's the battery, but wanted some other opinions before I dropped the dough...

[SIZE=18pt]Geeze Slappy, I figured all you left coast guys were rolling in dough[/SIZE].... :lol:

Ummm....

Administrator

Group: Admin

Posts: 1,810

Joined: 6-June 05

[SIZE=18pt]From: Vancouver, WA[/SIZE]

Member No.: 2

Bike: 2003 (N. America)

Unless Slappy has gotten a new job out yonder he is still a right coaster.

Here, Updated that for you.

WFO was a 1-way trip for me, just kept truckin' west...

 

[Scab]

Geez, Slappy, you know what those people do to rednecks out there?

 

[slapnpop]

Geez, Slappy, you know what those people do to rednecks out there?

Shiiiit.... You know how many loggers and fisherman there are out here? And I thought southern rednecks were bad! :lol:

 

[Scab]

Just wear the flanel and maybe they won't notice you.

By the way, how are you liking it out there?

 

[slapnpop]

So far so good. It'll be a lot better when my fiance can get out here to join me in a couple more months. Definitely a lot more opportunity for employment in my field.

 

[RTSR1/FJR]

Mines been doing this for about a 1-1/2 yrs. now! Always starts on the 2nd try and does it when it's hot! Keep saying I'm going to get a new battery, but never do! Probably leave me on the road somewhere one day! I've noticed that if I don't ride it for a few days, it turns over slower, but after it's ran for a few minutes and shut it off, it turns over faster when I start it again! Procrastination's a *****! lol I'm in denile! lol Guess I need a :battery: oorfool:

 

[kawabeemer]

If you have a decent local shop they should be willing to do load test on the battery. If they are willing to charge/test the battery, then buy the replacement from them.

 

[odot]

So far so good. It'll be a lot better when my fiance can get out here to join me in a couple more months. Definitely a lot more opportunity for employment in my field.

Vancouver, seattle..........more or less the same thing. High suicide percentages in them thar areas................if you need any counseling.........bustanut would be more then happy to help you drink through yer problems.

So far so good. It'll be a lot better when my fiance can get out here to join me in a couple more months. Definitely a lot more opportunity for employment in my field.

Vancouver, seattle..........more or less the same thing. High suicide percentages in them thar areas................if you need any counseling.........bustanut would be more then happy to help you drink through yer problems.edit:.............oh, and the hockey team there sucks moist *** cheese.

 

[RTSR1/FJR]

Damn all you guys! All this talk about dying batteries got me thinking again (been accused of not doing that too often!) about that damn battery! So, I just got done ordering one from Jeff's place (Sportbike Effects). I could just see it giving up the ghost in Oct. up in the mountains! Who says you don't get wiser with age! lol

 

[RTSR1/FJR]

Got my battery from "Sportbike Effects" yesterday and put it in today after work. All I can say is WOW! You really don't know how bad it is till you put in a new one! lol I knew it was going, but damn, I didn't think it was that bad. The thing idles better, runs better down low, and starts a whole lot better! lol Before, after it warmed up it would idle a little rough. Now it purrrs like a kitten! All from just a battery! I guess all those electronic gismos needed more juice! Thanks for pushing me into it with this thread!

 

[TestPilot]

The non-start on a hot engine is the battery. It is a 'feature' of my '01 as well.

This is my interpretation of the explanation given a few years ago (I think by Torch, a regular on the FJROwners board until a few years ago).

The battery, situated where it is, soaks up heat immediately when you stop, particularly if you've been riding for quite a while. This causes 'bubbles' against the plates, which slowly disappear/get reabsorbed as the battery cools. While in this very hot state, with the 'bubbles' there is less contact between the electrolyte and the plates, causing a temporary drop in voltage. Once reabsorbed there are no longer any 'bubbles' reducing the electrolyte/plate contact, and the voltage is back to a high enough level to easily start the motor.

This condition does become more apparent as the battery ages and deteriorates. Waiting for the bike/battery to cool has always solved the problem for me (even waiting as little as 5 minutes). If I'm riding hard, and stopping for only a minute or two, I leave the bike running.

 

[TestPilot]

OK - found some of the posts and research here: https://www.fjrowners.ws/discus/messages/2/31841.html

and I found the thread where he gives the explanantion I could understand:

Now, let's put all of this together, shall we?

Let the bike sit for 1 month in warm weather. Add to the self discharge rate a parasitic load of keeping the clock and computer alive. Some sulphation occurs. Now start the bike when you get back to make sure it still runs. Maybe fire up a few of the electronic farkles to ensure they still work. Shut it off after a minute to go don your riding gear. Restart it, further reducing it's charge level and take it for a nice long ride because you haven't been on it for a month. The low charge condition of the battery will soon be rectified by the charging system, forming lots of big bubbles in the areas that are not yet sulphated.

Get the temperature up to 4 bars, with the battery generating lots of gasses and located above the radiator, next to the hot frame, shielded from the cooling breeze by the fairing. That ought to increase the internal pressure, possibly high enough for some gas to escape through the relief valve.

Now, pull in for gas and shut the bike off. 5 minutes to fill, 5 minutes to pay. Not enough time for the bubbles to be fully reabsorbed. Try to restart the bike and find there's not enough plate surface area in contact with acid to provide sufficient current. The starter motor gives one half-hearted revolution, the load drops the system voltage too low to maintain the clock memory and the trip meters reset to 0.

Wait. Bubbles are reabsorbed into the solution bringing more plate surface area into contact with acid. Try again and now the battery can generate sufficient current to crank the bike over.

Sound at all plausible?

from here: https://www.fjrowners.ws/discus/messages/9/41471.html

 

[SkooterG]

The non-start on a hot engine is the battery. It is a 'feature' of my '01 as well.
This is my interpretation of the explanation given a few years ago (I think by Torch, a regular on the FJROwners board until a few years ago).

The battery, situated where it is, soaks up heat immediately when you stop, particularly if you've been riding for quite a while. This causes 'bubbles' against the plates, which slowly disappear/get reabsorbed as the battery cools. While in this very hot state, with the 'bubbles' there is less contact between the electrolyte and the plates, causing a temporary drop in voltage. Once reabsorbed there are no longer any 'bubbles' reducing the electrolyte/plate contact, and the voltage is back to a high enough level to easily start the motor.

This condition does become more apparent as the battery ages and deteriorates. Waiting for the bike/battery to cool has always solved the problem for me (even waiting as little as 5 minutes). If I'm riding hard, and stopping for only a minute or two, I leave the bike running.

The above and your next follow-up post certainly sound plausible and make a certain amount of sense, but this is the problem I have with that theory:

I ride daily all summer long here in Phoenix and frequently do stop and go, and sometimes many short trips with many stops and starts. So needless to say, in 110+ degree ambient temps, with short trips, EVERYTHING is freaking HOT, including the battery. Yet not once have I ever had a problem starting my FJR. And I still have the orginal battery in my 04 (that is maintained with a trickle charger). So me thinks there is still another root cause for the no-start condition, which simply may be the battery no longer being 100%.

 

[drew231506]

Welp mine died yesterday. It does start after sitting a while. But it is getting worse and worse. Time to order a new one...

 

[fjrcouple]

I have seen a rod cause similar problems. My friend had a GSXR 600 and when hot the bike would not turn over. Thought it was the battery. No luck. He took it to the dealer and they had it for 3 months. They found when the bike was hot the rod would bend and push the piston against the cylinder wall and stay there till it cooled down. If the battery doesn't work may have to dig deeper.

 

[RadioHowie]

I ride daily all summer long here in Phoenix and frequently do stop and go, and sometimes many short trips with many stops and starts. So needless to say, in 110+ degree ambient temps, with short trips, EVERYTHING is freaking HOT, including the battery. Yet not once have I ever had a problem starting my FJR. And I still have the orginal battery in my 04 (that is maintained with a trickle charger). So me thinks there is still another root cause for the no-start condition, which simply may be the battery no longer being 100%.

Not wanting to start anything, your description above might be the reason you don't have the symptoms...

"I ride daily..." which keeps the battery charged fully, and

"...maintained with a trickle charger" which ALSO keeps the battery fully charged.

Doesn't a battery that's kept fully charged live longer than one that isn't?

Slappy doesn't indicate in his post that he drives daily or charges the battery when he doesn't drive, so maybe your driving and good maintenance habits are just keeping the wolves at bay longer.

Possible???

I obviously don't know Slap's driving or maintenance habits, but slow starting a hot motor with a hot battery and the battery packing it in after 4+ years? Sounds pretty typical.

I think your driving habits combine with your proactive, rather than reactive, maintenance procedures have extended your battery's normal life. On the other hand, because of its age, when it DOES give up the ghost, it will be fast and furious.

You're wise to have that spare sitting on the shelf, awaiting "the call to arms."

 

[radman]

No doubt the battery is tired, and due for replacement. But hot start syndrome usually involves one of three things.

1) Corrosion on cables. Heat expands said corrosion, cool down contracts. Cable eventually loose as hell-worst area ground connection at right front of motor, where moisture has a good shot at it. Strangely enough, battery replacement fixes because cables are removed and cleaned up in process. Poor connection also impedes charging process, resulting in cascading failure.

2) Battery. Hot motor tighter, starter draw higher, expanded carbon in cylinder increases compression slightly, cable resistance slightly higher, battery voltage down slightly from hot soak, state of tune, all combine to overwhelm weak battery.

3) Starter. Resistance increases with heat, bad starters usually reveal insidious nature when toasty warm.