False Neutral Indicator

[CeleritasFJR]

With my bike on the side stand yesterday, I walked up and made a couple of very complimentary comments on how beautiful she looked before turning the ignition key to On and seeing the Bright GREEN letter N. After which, I hit the Starter to let her warm up a bit while putting on my gloves. Hitting the Starter turned the engine over and launched her forward taking her off the side stand. Fortunately my left hand was on the L handlebar and I was able to catch her before she fell over. Is this a fairly common situation? I tried searching but was unable to find result of a similar event on the forum. Now I will pull the clutch in when starting up before climbing on.

 

[Beal]

Has never happen to me.............

But..... you might try "always" holding the clutch in every time you start.

They do recommend (mandate) this in the MSF class.

 

[mcrides]

Now I will pull the clutch in when starting up before climbing on.

This is a good habit that I always use. But if the temp is cold you can get clutch drag, so sometimes applying the front brake too is an additional safety measure. Though I've yet to encounter a green neutral light on with a gear engaged. : :blink:

Bruno

Montreal, Canada

https://pages.videotron.com/mcrides

BRP Can-Am Spyder First Look: Adventure Tourer?

:

 

[Cdogman]

Good thing you caught your bike.

i dont trust lights. I dont have a clutch either on the FJR. So Dunno

 

[dbvolfan]

When really cold outside (below 20 and bike sitting for a while) mine will occasionally make a small lurch when started in N, even with the clutch in. Doesnt really move the bike forward but you can feel it.

 

[odot]

I usually have my right hand on something else when I am starting my girl up.

 

[roadrash]

Should report the problem to Yamaha. Maybe the nexted thing that happens is the steering lock engages while your riding.

 

[Keone]

Happened to me a few times on my cruiser (VTX1300) the bike was known to have a false N between 3 and 4. Could it have been something like that?

Keone

 

[CeleritasFJR]

Happened to me a few times on my cruiser (VTX1300) the bike was known to have a false N between 3 and 4. Could it have been something like that?
Keone

I have been parking usually w/ sidestand down and in 1st. Then walk up to bike use hand to pull gearshift to N and then hit starter. So in this case, I guess the false N is between 1st and 2nd. Man, I gotta say though, it is hard to sleep at night thinking about riding! I am generating all of these great ideas about where I will go when the weather turns nicer.

 

[weekend rider]

I do not belive it is a false neutral light. I f your side stand is down your bike start switch is taken out of the circut and no electricity should go the the start switch. The kick-stand switch should be wired in series to the start switch. Take it to your dealer and have it repaired.

This is not a one time mishap have it checked. please report back and share

what they find

weekend rider

 

[painman]

I do not belive it is a false neutral light. I f your side stand is down your bike start switch is taken out of the circut and no electricity should go the the start switch. The kick-stand switch should be wired in series to the start switch. Take it to your dealer and have it repaired.
This is not a one time mishap have it checked. please report back and share

what they find

weekend rider

+1 what weekend rider said. There should be no connection to the starter switch with the sidestand displayed. Every once in a while I leave the stand down and bike in gear to try and start to make sure everything is operational with the clutch in of course. PM. <>< <_<

 

[markjenn]

I do not belive it is a false neutral light. I f your side stand is down your bike start switch is taken out of the circut and no electricity should go the the start switch. The kick-stand switch should be wired in series to the start switch. Take it to your dealer and have it repaired.
This is not a one time mishap have it checked. please report back and share

what they find

weekend rider

+1 what weekend rider said. There should be no connection to the starter switch with the sidestand displayed. Every once in a while I leave the stand down and bike in gear to try and start to make sure everything is operational with the clutch in of course. PM. <>< <_<

Sorry, you guys are mistaken. The bike will start fine on the sidestand IF it is in neutral (or thinks it is in neutral). True, the sidestand switch prevents the engine from running if the bike is in gear, but since the neutral light on the dash is on, the neutral sensor is telling the bike it is in neutral and the sidestand safety switch is overrriden, allowing the bike to start/run.

It's certainly not unheard of to get a false neutral light - in fact, the standing joke in MSF classes is that the only thing the neutral light tells you is that the bulb is not burned out. Neutral sensors have gotten much more foolproof over time and I've never noted a false neutral light on any of my current bikes. But I'm sure they happen now and then.

Many go to great lengths to defeat the sidestand and clutch safety switches in the interest of removing a point of failure.

If I were you, I'd fiddle with it a little and see if the thing has an unusual propensity to show false neutrals - if so, you may have a bad neutral sensor. Otherwise, I'd chalk it up as a lesson that you shouldn't depend on these safety systems so much, always pull the clutch when starting (and let it out slowly to confirm that the bike is really in neutral), and congratulate yourself on your miraculous save.

- Mark

 

[Dan23]

Sorry, you guys are mistaken. The bike will start fine on the sidestand IF it is in neutral (or thinks it is in neutral).

They merely forgot the bolded. Otherwise good advice: see your dealer.

 

[Constant Mesh]

The neutral sensor on the '06 and '07 A models is different from the earlier models. With the addition of the gear indicator display Yamaha had to add additional sensors for each of the 5 gears. I don't know if the new method of sensing neutral is more or less accurate than the one used on the earlier models. Sounds like it could be less accurate.

 

[Waaane]

The neutral sensor on the '06 and '07 A models is different from the earlier models. With the addition of the gear indicator display Yamaha had to add additional sensors for each of the 5 gears. I don't know if the new method of sensing neutral is more or less accurate than the one used on the earlier models. Sounds like it could be less accurate.

Has anybody with an 05 or earlier had this problem or any variation of it? My routine is to park my bike in first gear and when I come back to it I turn on the key then rock it backward slightly while flipping up the gear shift lever with my left foot to put it in neutral. The neutral indicator light goes on as the lever clicks into neutral.I let it rest back on the sidestand and hit the starter switch to let the bike warm up while I put on gear. I don't check to make sure its really in neutral. Could it go all the way to 2nd gear and give me a false neutral light? That could end up sucking in a big way. Now i guess I will have to roll it a few inches to actually make sure its not in gear.

 

[weekend rider]

The kick stand is part of the safety devices built in to prevent take-offs with stand down and cause rider to wreck or some other kind of problem .

Now that being said, it does not mean that they changed it and the starting procudure. I believe that the the safety of the rider is first and formost and that is part of the REQUIRED safety procedures by the uniform manfacturing code for building and selling a motorcycle to the public at large.

On my 05 the kick stand switch and gear shifter is wired in series to the start button to prevent this from happening. I find it highly unlikely that they changed the design since it is for safety.

If your bike starts in neutral and it is not designed to you have a faulty switch or need adjustment on your neutral de-tent switch I would take it to the dealer.

One way to settle the difference on what it could be is to get out the wiring diagram and trace the electrical through the switches and use your volt- ohm meter and that will tell you exactly how it should work

Always think safety be safe and and you will always be safe

This forum is great, we get to express our professional opinion and the right to agree or agree to disagree no harm no foul

bweekend rider

 

[TruWrecks]

The neutral sensor on the '06 and '07 A models is different from the earlier models. With the addition of the gear indicator display Yamaha had to add additional sensors for each of the 5 gears. I don't know if the new method of sensing neutral is more or less accurate than the one used on the earlier models. Sounds like it could be less accurate.

If there are sensors for each gear, the Neutral indicator might be a result of NOT sensing if the tranny is in another gear. It may be a bad 1st gear sensor causing the bike to think it's in between 1st and 2nd.

Play around with it and see if you can reproduce it, using the clutch of course. The bike shouldn't even try to start if the clutch isn't pulled. I'm pretty sure that every bike I've had was like that. Either way, I'd have the dealer look at it.

 

[NSFJR]

If this happened to me, I would test to see if I could replicate the event by first placing the bike on the CENTRE STAND, then dropping the side stand, then hit the start button. If it is indeed in gear while indicating neutral via the green dash light, it's not going anywhere should the engine start while on the centre stand. Canadian logic.

 

[markjenn]

I know nothing about the AE models, but I'm pretty sure all the non-AE's work like this:

if in neutral (N light on): bike starts/runs regardless of clutch or sidestand

if not in neutral (N light off):

>>if sidestand down: bike won't run/start

>>if sidestand up:

>>>>if clutch pulled: bike starts/runs

>>>>if clutch not pulled: bike will run but won't start

As Albert Einstein said, "Make it as simple as possible but no simpler". The logic of this is not trivial. And bikes are not consistent so you can't transfer your knowledge of another bike to the FJR's systems. Mfgs seem to be fairly consistent. Suzuki, for example, seems to have gone to requiring the clutch to be pulled to start the bike regardless of anything else. But the FJR is happy to start as long as it sees that little green light on the dash.

Again, in this particular failure we seem to have a situation where the bike simply has a false neutral indicator and as the above shows, the sidestand and clutch have nothing to do with it. If the bike thinks it is in neutral, it will start/run regardless of anything you do with the clutch and sidestands.

- Mark