Won’t start in neutral with side stand down 2008 Model

[Glenfruin]

Hey guys err a bit embarrassing but the “faulty sidestand” issue has been resolved it actually is or was the Datatool alarm that was the culprit I was putting the key in ignition then disarming the alarm and that was what causes the immobiliser to kill the ignition and it resets after 45 seconds and obviously during that 45 seconds I tried moving the side stand up and down then it seemed to start I hate alarms on bikes as you never know if it is that causing problems or if there is a actual problem plus I seem to not understand how to disarm it because every other time I try to start it the siren goes off too arrrgghhh. Anyway nothing wrong with the bike it is fantastic machine just has a ****** alarm

 

[Cyclepath]

Thanks for sharing how this is now resolved Glenfruin. Should be no embarassment on most of these things, as we can end up troubleshooting symptoms that potentially, are the result of multiple contributing factors (i.e. farkles we added, aging wiring harness, flaky connectors, even programmed modes of some accessories we gleefully attached.

I've worked in different industry sectors of high tech for almost 40 years, and I can admit it can be easy to overlook something that might become obvious more quickly to another persion with cold eyes...

 

[Whooshka]

It's always the mod or farkle that wasn't mentioned until a thread is usually 8 pages deep.

 

[RossKean]

You should still check to make sure the ignition switch recall was done. It might bite you eventually if it wasn't replaced.

That alarm must selectively disable ignition (or fuel) without affecting ability to crank.

 

[Glenfruin]

It's always the mod or farkle that wasn't mentioned until a thread is usually 8 pages deep.

Yeah I agree, but I’ve only had the bike two weeks so it’s all new to me Imsure there will be other farkles waiting to surprise me

 

[Glenfruin]

You should still check to make sure the ignition switch recall was done. It might bite you eventually if it wasn't replaced.

That alarm must selectively disable ignition (or fuel) without affecting ability to crank.

There are two different keys with the bike so I’m thinking that the ignition barrel has be changed hence two different keys, It’s only had 3 owners so I think someone had cared for it in the past, I think I have to phone Yamaha uk to see if recalls have been done I looked online but it wasn’t easy to find a clear answer.

 

[road runner]

There are two different keys with the bike so I’m thinking that the ignition barrel has be changed hence two different keys, It’s only had 3 owners so I think someone had cared for it in the past, I think I have to phone Yamaha uk to see if recalls have been done I looked online but it wasn’t easy to find a clear answer.

The replacement ignition switch has a piece of yellow tape on the harness next to the plug. If you lift the tank and look at the ignition switch harness and you see yellow tape on it, then it has been replaced.

 

[Glenfruin]

You should still check to make sure the ignition switch recall was done. It might bite you eventually if it wasn't replaced.

That alarm must selectively disable ignition (or fuel) without affecting ability to crank.

Yeah I think the alarm must kill the spark ️ so if the ignition switch is forced it will crank but no spark at plugs will immobilise it.

 

[Glenfruin]

The replacement ignition switch has a piece of yellow tape on the harness next to the plug. If you lift the tank and look at the ignition switch harness and you see yellow tape on it, then it has been replaced.

oh that’s good to know next time have the tank off I will check, do you know if there’s anyway to tell if the dodgy wiring loom / spider thingy has been done when I have the tank off?.

 

[Sunnyorlando]

I have the similar on my project bike.
It's an '03 - bike runs just fine, however.
Neutral light not working -
> checked bulb = good Sidetand down, clutch in - fuel pump primes, but no crank. Sidestand up, clutch in, fuel pump primes and engine starts. Bike in N (rear tire visually not spinning), move sidestand down, kills engine. This tests the sidetand switch as working in my mind. I also hear the starter cutoff relay clicking when pulling clutch and moving sidestand up & down. I believe this also confirms clutch and sidestand circuit talking to the cutoff relay.
I think I'm left with N switch - the circuit doesn't know it's in N.
I've been looking for the wires to the N switch so I can test to see if in fact it's working when switching between N and 1 or 2.
In the wiring diagram it shows a light blue to the starter relay from the N switch, and a lime green on the other side to the panel N indicator.
This is only place I can see it. If this is the case, is it as simple as testing this light blue to GND when pacing it in gear? Right now it's open - no GND.
I have not found a test procedure for this.

 

[RossKean]

I have the same similar on my project bike.
It's an '03 - bike runs just fine, however...

Neutral light not working - checked bulb = good Sidetand down, clutch in - fuel pump primes, but no crank. Sidestand up, clutch in, fuel pump primes and engine starts. Bike in N (rear tire visually not spinning), move sidestand down, kills engine. This tests the sidetand switch as working in my mind. I also hear the starter cutoff relay clicking when pulling clutch and moving sidestand up & down. I believe this also confirms clutch and sidestand circuit talking to the cutoff relay.
I think I'm left with N switch - the circuit doesn't know it's in N.
I've been looking for the wires to the N switch so I can test to see if in fact it's working when switching between N and 1 or 2.
In the wiring diagram it shows a light blue to the starter relay from the N switch, and a lime green on the other side to the panel N indicator.
This is only place I can see it. If this is the case, is it as simple as testing this light blue to GND when pacing it in gear? Right now it's open - no GND.
I have not found a test procedure for this.

Pretty sure it is your neutral switch. I had a similar problem with my '07 but the Gen I switch is different although symptoms would be similar. (I ended out by replacing the switch on the '07) I think I remember reading about a few Gen I neutral switch problems...

 

[Sunnyorlando]

Pretty sure it is your neutral switch. I had a similar problem with my '07 but the Gen I switch is different although symptoms would be similar. (I ended out by replacing the switch on the '07) I think I remember reading about a few Gen I neutral switch problems...

Thanks - is there another known specific test procedure for this other than what I mentioned above?

 

[RossKean]

Do some searching - lots of stuff on the forum. This might be a help (one of the first that popped up...
https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/the-bike-forgot-where-neutral-is.143415/#post-934737
As i mentioned, Gen I is different from Gen II with respect to neutral switch...

 

[Sunnyorlando]

Do some searching - lots of stuff on the forum. This might be a help (one of the first that popped up...
https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/the-bike-forgot-where-neutral-is.143415/#post-934737
As i mentioned, Gen I is different from Gen II with respect to neutral switch...

Thanks... so I had and did again search. While I do find these topics, I don't see a specific test for the N switch other than the sequencing of what could trigger the cut off, but none of those test the specific switch - as far as I can tell.
With these tested you validate the circuit function, but not any specific component.

 

[RossKean]

Thanks... so I had and did again search. While I do find these topics, I don't see a specific test for the N switch other than the sequencing of what could trigger the cut off, but none of those test the specific switch - as far as I can tell.
With these tested you validate the circuit function, but not any specific component.

Doesn't the #3 post cover a test procedure?

https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/the-bike-forgot-where-neutral-is.143415/post-933763
I didn't go through all of the threads, but I wouldn't think testing the switch would be that complicated. It is either "open" or it isn't.

 

[Sunnyorlando]

Doesn't the #3 post cover a test procedure?

https://www.fjrforum.com/threads/the-bike-forgot-where-neutral-is.143415/post-933763
I didn't go through all of the threads, but I wouldn't think testing the switch would be that complicated. It is either "open" or it isn't.

Ross - Well, not exactly - that procedure is testing the circuit as a whole, not the individual component. Because of the multi points affecting this circuit, theres unknown factors. A test procedure for the specific component would tell mwhat to expect at the terminating point(s).
So - Should it be 0 Ohm to GND, or something else?
Is it NO or NC when in N?
Should I see a change in resistance when actuating the gear lever? I'd guess so...
Can (or which) the circuit be jumped to test the indicator light circuit?
Right now the N switch cir is open, if I jump it to close it, the N light still does not turn on. What missing?
Thats the test/verification I'm trying to find.
The bulb has been verified early on.

 

[RossKean]

Ross - Well, not exactly - that procedure is testing the circuit as a whole, not the individual component. Because of the multi points affecting this circuit, theres unknown factors. A test procedure for the specific component would tell mwhat to expect at the terminating point(s).
So - Should it be 0 Ohm to GND, or something else?
Is it NO or NC when in N?
Should I see a change in resistance when actuating the gear lever? I'd guess so...
Can (or which) the circuit be jumped to test the indicator light circuit?
Right now the N switch cir is open, if I jump it to close it, the N light still does not turn on. What missing?
Thats the test/verification I'm trying to find.
The bulb has been verified early on.

I can't help further without having it in front of me to look at stuff. How hard is it to actually access and remove a Gen I neutral switch?
In this instance, you might have had better luck starting a new thread instead of appending to a thread for a 2008 since the neutral circuit is very different.

 

[Sunnyorlando]

Thanks - i understand. The reason I appended to this thread is because the symptom was similar and I figured that the testing of the switch may be helpful/similar.
The removal of the switch in an '03 apparently is a bit tedious, it's requiring to remove the tank and the air box, and some say the throttle bodies. So before I got into that I wanted to see if there's a way to verify.

 

[RossKean]

Thanks - i understand. The reason I appended to this thread is because the symptom was similar and I figured that the testing of the switch may be helpful/similar.
The removal of the switch in an '03 apparently is a bit tedious, it's requiring to remove the tank and the air box, and some say the throttle bodies. So before I got into that I wanted to see if there's a way to verify.

Gen II switch is for neutral as well as indicators for the five gears. Simple to access and simple to troubleshoot. Gen I is quite different.