Fast starter after the bike went down

[ken0350]

I was riding with a friend of mine (both of us have 2007 FJR's) last Friday morning and we hit a bridge with a thin coat of ice. Needless to say, we did synchronized downs and we both ended up with FJR body damage and a little personal body damage. We were only going about 30 at the time so we bashed the bikes in a cosmetic way but we were pretty much spared any severe human body damage. Phil suffered a broken index finger (we now call him digit) and a bruised ankle and I came away without any injuries.

OK, so much for that. After getting the wheels back in the proper alignment with the pavement we both had to wait a few minutes before the engine light would go out and the engine would start. We both noticed that our starters seemed to spin much faster than before the bikes went down but the bikes started and ran fine. We continue to have the same fast starter issue after a couple of days and wondered if there is some additional damage or a tripped switch. Is this normal?

Has anyone experienced a very fast starter after dropping your bike? It cranks and runs fine and all the guages are correct. There are no leaks or cracks that we can find, just a very fast starter.

Comments and wise cracks are welcomed.

 

[Barabus]

Wow, me thinks a lot of guys are scratching their collective heads on this one. Good luck and let us know the outcome.

 

[water-dog]

Just a thought but have you cleared the tip over code? Not sure if this has anything to do with it but maybe the electrical gremlins are at work. The only thing to make it spin faster is higher voltage or less resistance at the starter. I'm sure War Child or one of the other Guru's can come up with an answer. Good Luck & glad your okay.

dog

 

[madmike2]

Maybe a loose ground that now makes better contact? Corrosion in an electrical contact that the "shock" dislodged?

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Yer Batry's gunna blow en yewer gunna git batry acid ever-where

 

[Geezer]

Is the oil level correct?

 

[HYCLE]

Maybe you both had a dry clutch problem that was solved by laying the bike down. Hows that for a wild ass guess?

Or maybe you guys both bumped your heads and the brain damage altered your perception of time.

 

[ionbeam]

Assumption #1: the starter and associated components have not been touched during the inception of the normal spin/fast spin situation

Assumption #2: there has been no change in the normal operating temperature of the battery or starter motor

There are at least three ways that a starter can begin spinning faster than normal.

1. A change in the mechanical force needed to drive the starter gears (starter idle gear, starter clutch and starter gear) or reduced force to turn the crank shaft as the result of reduced friction. The starter motor gear spins the starter gears & starter clutch which are mounted to the crank shaft, right behind the stator.

2. A change in the amount of electrical energy delivered to the starter, from a battery with a better charge state; better battery cable connections or improved engine block ground.

3. A change in cranking force; this can happen with a change in valve timing; ignition timing; reduction in compression or a reduction in viscous drag from the clutch pack.

Some recommended checks would be ECU error codes, voltage at the starter, starter current, compression and make an actual timing check with a timing light. The ECU controls spark timing, if a sensor or wire used to determine spark timing was damaged the ECU may be dialing in the wrong spark advance/retard. This condition should set an error code. Passing all of the previous checks, you may want to inspect the starter gears/clutch.

Just some thoughts, hope this gives you a starting point.

=============

Perhaps you and pickax can work something out, his starter turns too slow.

 

[pickax]

Must be why I'm usually late, but hey, I get there eventually !!

 

[ken0350]

Assumption #1: the starter and associated components have not been touched during the inception of the normal spin/fast spin situation
Assumption #2: there has been no change in the normal operating temperature of the battery or starter motor

There are at least three ways that a starter can begin spinning faster than normal.

1. A change in the mechanical force needed to drive the starter gears (starter idle gear, starter clutch and starter gear) or reduced force to turn the crank shaft as the result of reduced friction. The starter motor gear spins the starter gears & starter clutch which are mounted to the crank shaft, right behind the stator.

2. A change in the amount of electrical energy delivered to the starter, from a battery with a better charge state; better battery cable connections or improved engine block ground.

3. A change in cranking force; this can happen with a change in valve timing; ignition timing; reduction in compression or a reduction in viscous drag from the clutch pack.

Some recommended checks would be ECU error codes, voltage at the starter, starter current, compression and make an actual timing check with a timing light. The ECU controls spark timing, if a sensor or wire used to determine spark timing was damaged the ECU may be dialing in the wrong spark advance/retard. This condition should set an error code. Passing all of the previous checks, you may want to inspect the starter gears/clutch.

Just some thoughts, hope this gives you a starting point.

=============

Perhaps you and pickax can work something out, his starter turns too slow.

There was a scrape on the stator cover from the fall. We both had the same kind of scrape. I wonder if there was some damage under the cover.

Thanks everyone, we will have them checked.

Great forum and great inputs....

Ken

 

[madmike2]

There was a scrape on the stator cover from the fall. We both had the same kind of scrape. I wonder if there was some damage under the cover.
Thanks everyone, we will have them checked.

Great forum and great inputs....

Ken

If there was damage to the stator that would cause a change in the charge rate, not an immediate change in the RPMs of the starter itself. The charge rate might overcharge the battery, but it wouldn't mean the battery wold suddenly have 15 volts available to speed the starter.

Reset the code (the method is in the Bin-O'-Facts) and go from there.

 

[ionbeam]

There was a scrape on the stator cover from the fall. We both had the same kind of scrape. I wonder if there was some damage under the cover.
Thanks everyone, we will have them checked.

Great forum and great inputs....

Ken

If there was damage to the stator that would cause a change in the charge rate, not an immediate change in the RPMs of the starter itself. The charge rate might overcharge the battery, but it wouldn't mean the battery wold suddenly have 15 volts available to speed the starter.

Reset the code (the method is in the Bin-O'-Facts) and go from there.

ken0350 was drawn to the stator area because I mentioned the starter clutch (which is behind the stator) might be damaged. The starter clutch is a one-way device for transmitting the starter motor rotation to the crankshaft. The starter clutch should be 'locked' when rotated in the CW direction and turn freely in the CCW direction. If there was damage imparted during the left side slide the clutch may be over-running in the normal start direction. Note that this was the last item I've listed as needing to be checked.

Even if the stator was wildly over charging the battery, the battery would trickle back down to <13 volts after some time. Also, if the stator voltage is way up bulbs will start to burn out.

It is odd that both bikes exhibit the very same fast starter symptom after the dual wipe-outs :huh: