final drive lash on 06 FJR

[85turbo]

hi all.

i have been on the elusive trail of the smooth 06 fjr.

so far i have done the throttle spring mod ,this made a huge difference but still not perfect.

next was the G2Ergo throttle tube and pulley. once again a huge improvement, as i can now

shift gears almost imperceptably (sp?) most of the time, but it's still not quite right.

my main problem seems to be from what i think might be excessive final drive lash.

it's realy bad in 1st gear, on and off the throttle. very clunky indeed.

this being my first shaftie, im not sure what's normal in the drive line free play.

to me it kinda feels like a bike with a loose / stretched chain. it's that bad.

when in gear, on the centre stand, the rear wheel moves about 2.5 - 3".

i note that in the workshop manual the lash is adjustable, but it looks like a BIG job.

considering that this bike is only 2.5 months old, if it is excessive, should my dealer be

fixing it free of charge ? it's been this way from day one.

like i said, the FJR is my first shaftie, so i have no frame of reference.

what is everyones opinion on this ?

my next step is a rather costly one, in a power commander.

don't really want to go there if it's not 100% needed.

jason.

 

[Dan23]

When does it bother you? During curves as you apply the throttle? If so, make sure you gear down rather than rely on the enormous engine's ability to pull from low rpm.

HTH.

 

[ionbeam]

You should probably take a look at this thread: '06 excessive driveline lash, anybody else frustrated???. I believe this topic has been discussed at every new model year release.

 

[85turbo]

ionbeam, thanks for the link....

it's not really a problem once under way, just at initial take up (from zero speed) and in 1st gear slow speeds.

jason

 

[S76]

I thought the same of mine when I first got it. I was about to adjust the final transmission drive lash but then realized that most of the slop is in the shifting cogs in the transmission. That's just the way it made. However, a PCIII smoothes out the engine response so much you don't notice the lash anymore. It has a greater positive effect than all the springs and cams put together.

 

[madmike2]

My last 4 bikes have been shaft drive, so I don't notice the looseness any longer. If youa re used to chain drive bikes you might notice it more and it doesn't like on-off throttle transitions in corners. My old XS1100 is worse. I'm not home or I'd see how much rotation/slop there is in my rear wheel in 1st gear so you'd have a comparison. There is a certain amount of driveline looseness and it may be that you haven't yet learned to adjust your driving style to that.

as i can nowshift gears almost imperceptably (sp?) most of the time, but it's still not quite right.

I have an '05, so I don't face the throttle transition issues the '06-'07 models seem to have. One thing about the FJRs seems to be that they don't like being "short-shifted". IOW, I shift mine between 3500-4000 rpms when I'm being lazy. They all seem to dislike being shifted @ 2000-2500. I'd suggest getting together with another local rider to you and compare driveline lash. At least you'd know if its a technique issue or something peculiar to your bike.

it's not really a problem once under way, just at initial take up (from zero speed) and in 1st gear slow speeds.

In town, IIRC, I burble along at 25-30 in 2nd or even 3rd gear, though I don't have many long, flat places where the bike can load and unload the shaft/final drive. I'll run it up in 1st and then shift up while on neighborhood streets. Besides, with Holeshot slip-ons it keeps the neighbors happier. When on twisy and fun back roads I tend to get my braking and shifting done early and be rolling on the throttle through the corners.

 

[jestal]

I think the effect of the drive train lash with a shaft drive is magnified by the nature of the shaft drive. All the lash comes and goes as you roll on and off the throttle with very little cushioning. A chain as nearly as much actual lash if you measure the free movement of the tire back and forth on the center stand (in any given gear) but the movement of taking the slack out of the chain acts to cushion the lash or make it less obvious. Since the "loose" side of the chain is dragged down in the middle by gravity as the lash transfers the chain has to be picked up to stretch it tight and that force tends to offset the lash feel.

The lash is always worse in the lower gears due to the clearance in the gear dogs/windows being greater in the lower gears. The trans is designed that way to improve shifting under load/fast in the lower gears where it is more likely to occur. Bigger windows make bigger targets for the dogs so the shift if more likely to occur under load/shifting fast but the bigger windows also make for more drivetrain lash.

I agree with madmike, my old XS1100 was far worse. I thought the FJR was actually pretty good for driveline lash when I first got on it!!

To avoid the lash at low speeds/parking lots/etc. learn to drag the rear brake and keep the power on slightly to keep the driveline always loaded. "Fix" the throttle slightly open and control speed with the rear brake. It will not hurt the engine/driveline in the least and the rear brake has plenty of capacity to do this for short stretches. This way U-turns and parking lot slow crawls are a none event as far as driveline lash is concerned.

 

[twodogs]

I believe (from my experience) that the PCIII solves this problem.

I.e., while not addressing the drivetrain issues, it eliminates the symptoms nearly all the time. I think you'll not be dissappointed.

 

[temp357]

Most common fixes for this problem include:

the free way

~~~~~~~~~~

Fred H. Shim and barbarian jumper mod

The costlier way

~~~~~~~~~~~

G2 Throttle Tube and PCIII

In my experience the pciii by itself fixes the problem by about 80 to 90%. I haven't had time to put the g2 on to see, but the reviews are pretty good.

 

[Dj'sFJR]

PCIII > FTW...

 

[jestal]

This got me curious so I journeyed down to the man cave and took a bit of data off of my 2003 FJR and my 1978 XS1100. I measured lash at a point on the sidewall of the tire by putting a paint mark and rocking the tire back and forth in each gear and measuring the max movement fore and aft with a scale in mm.

................Lash measured at the rear wheel in mm.

Gear..............2003 FJR...............1978XS1100

---------------------------------------------------------

1....................50...........................60

2....................50...........................58

3....................55...........................55

4....................60...........................50

5....................60...........................35

Interesting and partially to my preconceived notions.......................and partially not.

The XS1100 definitely feels like it has more lash in lower gears (compared to the FJR) and it appears to really have more based on the measurements. As mentioned the XS1100 was a handfull in a parking lot with the jumpy carbs and all that lash in the driveline.

The odd thing is that the XS1100 has much less lash in higher gears (compared to lower gears) as I expected BUT also much less than the FJR (in higher gears) which I did not expect. Also, the FJR has almost the same lash in the higher gears as the lower gears....didn't expect that one either.

I expected the XS1100 to have the less lash in high gears from feel and the fact that typically the lower gears would have more lash as that is where the dog windows are larger for faster shifting. From riding it I didn't expect the FJR to have that much lash in the higher gears......but it does. All the better for power shifting into higher gears and the extra lash must be managed better with the cush drive.

I can definitely tell the difference between the cush drive in the XS1100 and the FJR. Rocking the XS1100 rear wheel back and forth would yield a very solid stop to stop feel....an almost metallic clunck at each end. On the other hand, the FJR hits the stops much softer and the harder I would rock the tire back and forth the more travel I could measure. Only by a tiny bit (about 5 mm) but it was there and repeatable in each gear.

The FJR appears to manage the lash better due to the added compliance of the cush drive compared to the XS1100 because the XS certainly seems to have more lash in all gears, not just the lower ones.

For those just tuning in the 1978 XS1100 was the first in the lineage of the XS1100, FJ1100, FJ1200 and FJR1300. It is truely the FJR's great-great-grandfather. Final drives are almost identical. The FJR has the angle drive as part of the engine oil sump lubrication where-as the XS has the angle drive in a separate gear housing lubed with gear oil but the geometry is very very close. The final drive housing on the XS looks like it could be bolted to the FJR, no kidding. The FJR still has the shock mounting boss cast in place that the XS used with the old dual shocks. The FJR has jumpy EFI throttle bodies where-as the XS had first generation CV carbs that were large and notoriously jumpy and lurchy. The XS could be a real handful in a parking lot or U-turn during the power-on/power-off transition or vice versa. It would lurch so bad it would almost chirp the tire sometimes. The FJR is very mildmannered in this respect in comparison.

 

[85turbo]

thanks for all the imput....

i think a power commander is in my imminent future....

they are a costly thing here though, running to about $800au ($500us) fitted and custom mapped.

guess i better start saving ?

thanks again.

jason

 

[temp357]

Really? May want to see if you can get away with buying the US version. I paid around $260us. I thought the Aussie version of the bike didn't have the emissions restrictions we got stuck with in the US and ran smoother... You may want to start with the g2 since it's cheaper.

 

[85turbo]

You may want to start with the g2 since it's cheaper.

as stated in my first post, i already have the G2 installed, and it improved it, but did

not solve the issue. and as far as bying from the usa (on the PCIII) i thought about it, but then if anything goes wrong,

ill not have a warranty. so ill just have to get one locally. they run to about $500 here. the other $300 is for fitting and

custom mapping on a dyno.

jason

 

[MVF]

My FJR hasn't come in yet, but with my old Nighthawk S I would smooth the transitions by feathering the clutch just a bit. I'm surprised no one mentioned this- does it not work on the FJR?

 

[temp357]

The clutch on the 06/07 fjr are pretty on/off which leave very little room for feathering.

 

[85turbo]

and the fact that my particular bike is the AE, there is no clutch lever to modulate.

you only have input from the throttle to "feather" the clutch.

combine this with a very on / off throttle response, and that's the prob in a nut shell.

jason

 

[bernie1]

and the fact that my particular bike is the AE, there is no clutch lever to modulate.you only have input from the throttle to "feather" the clutch.

combine this with a very on / off throttle response, and that's the prob in a nut shell.

jason

I just measured the driveline backlash om my 03 and it was one & one half inches. (been reading the older posts, sorry) Bernie

 

[OrangevaleFJR]

I came to the FJR from old BMWs. I don't notice the lash, don't know what it is. Maybe I should ride my wife's FZ6 some more so I can figure out what this phenominon is.