Final Drive Oil

[Warpdrv]

Yeah - pretty sure that if there was any warranty work done on a final drive, it would a be pretty slim chance they are going to start doing analysis on the oil in a final drive.... with the minimal amount of final drive failures I'd put it more in the Yamaha's embarrassed dept and wouldn't question the replacement.

 

[Bustanut joker]

Bounce clarified any warranty concerns on page one of this waste of bandwidth.

I'd say a pinning of the Magnuson Act would be a good idea, But nobody reads stuff like that.

Hell, most don't read the rules here though it is highly suggested when ya sign up.

 

[Old Guy]

Bounce clarified any warranty concerns on page one of this waste of bandwidth.
I'd say a pinning of the Magnuson Act would be a good idea, But nobody reads stuff like that.

Hell, most don't read the rules here though it is highly suggested when ya sign up.

I saw that, but the act does not say that all problems will be covered no matter what. My concern has been that an engine or drive train problem could be blamed on improper maintenance. While we agree that GL-5 is adequate, it can also be shown by Yamaha that they recommended something else. Would they refuse a repair because of it. Dunno.

I agree it's probably not an issue in this case since it can easily be proven that the rear drive unit is the same as a '13. But in the past I've done things to the manufacturer's spec when the unit is under warranty. After that, when it's on me anyway, I'll relax the standards.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I like many others on this forum have been riding for decades. I like many others on this forum have been a member of several forums of multiple brands. I have never heard of a single instance of a warranty not being honored because of the owner not using a specific lubricant. How the heck would a dealer know? Again we are using a long pole to vault over a small turd.

 

[bgross]

"Again we are using a long pole to vault over a small turd."

Priceless!

Thanks.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Jesus H. Christ!! The manual says GL5. Just like the bottle of Valvoline. As with most matters here, a bunch of you need to get girlfriends. Sheite!!

 

[Redfish Hunter]

As with most matters here, a bunch of you need to get girlfriends. Sheite!!

I can't afford a girlfriend and a wife. I can barely afford the wife.

And I could really care less about the final drive oil brand. I am going to run Crisco.

 

[Fred W]

This has turned into a Most Excellent topic. My curiosity has been satisfied! Thanks, Guys.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's why it's been moved to NEPRT. You know... because of its excellence.

Of course we all know that this is the exact same final drive. Wonder why the change in verbiage.

Since this is the 1st Yamaha I own so I don't know what Yamaha's practice is. Does Yamaha have the habit of pushing their own expensive oil by stamping a specific model number on oil bottles and specified it explicitly in the manual, like the sentence in 2014FJR OM?

If yes, do they have model specific oil for all their other models?

Yamaha's history does tend that way. The FJR and VMAX have both had proprietary gear lube called out in their manuals (off and on) over the years. At one time the FJR had 20W40 Yamalube called out for the engine, but they later changed that to 20W50 Yamalube and a range of oil weights depending on ambient temps, this only after they stopped marketing 20W40 and started marketing 20W50.

There are those folks that (for whatever reason) WANT to use the manufacturer's branded lubricants.
Yamaha would not market this stuff if someone wasn't purchasing it.

I agree. And it's nice that they have the specific product available for those people. But they should also tell you what the specs are for the proprietary stuff so the other people that do not want to do that have the ability to make an educated choice.

Jesus H. Christ!! The manual says GL5. Just like the bottle of Valvoline. As with most matters here, a bunch of you need to get girlfriends. Sheite!!

No, that's the only new piece of information in this entire thread, AJ. It doesn't say GL5 in any manual for the 2014 (owners or FSM). It says only the Yamaha brand lube and even goes so far as to give the part number. The 2013 manual did say GL5 (as did some of the prior years) but they have changed the manuals and removed that statement. Haven't seen a 2015 manual yet so we'll have to see if that was a one year omission or a change in policy.

 

[Old Guy]

Jesus H. Christ!! The manual says GL5. Just like the bottle of Valvoline. As with most matters here, a bunch of you need to get girlfriends. Sheite!!

Well, that's just the point of post #1. The manual for the 2014 does not specify GL5. It specifies a Yamaha product that costs, according again to post #1, $24 a quart.

I had the audacity to say that the only reason I'd use a $24 / quart final drive lube would be during the warranty period, though I probably wouldn't.

Then it degenerated somehow to pole vaulting over turds. Isn't the Internet a wonderful place?

 

[majicmaker]

This has turned into a Most Excellent topic. My curiosity has been satisfied! Thanks, Guys.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's why it's been moved to NEPRT. You know... because of its excellence.

It got moved to NEPRT instantly because of the name of the topic. Even Stevie Wonder could see that coming. I got my question answered and now a lot more members know that there are many inexpensive alternatives to serve that purpose. I'm good with that.

 

[Fred W]

Agreed, post #1 was (is) a redundant turd (sorry Majic, but in NEPRT-land, Rule 10 don't count, so suck it up!). Destined for NEPRTdom because it is Never Ending, Pointless, and Recurring. I guess it was excellent in that it hits all the qualifying criteria for NEPRT.

My only point was that the thread's slim merit was that it brought out that there was a documentation change that affected what people would be using in the latest bikes. That was NEW INFORMATION

Otherwise it's all been a rehash of the SOS. Same Old Shit, Shit on a Shingle, Save Our Ship... take your choice

 

[HotRodZilla]

So, back on topic. All you warranty-worry-worts, who think Yamaha would decline a claim because the exact perfect formulation they think should be in there isn't in there, please explain this:

I bought my 2007 when Yamaha still had the 20-40 Yamalube. I purchased a service contract when I bought the bike, because I knew absolutely nothing about it. The YES warranty extended beyond the service contract.

One day after my scheduled oil change, my service manager told me that Yamaha stopped branding and carrying the 20-40, so they used 10-40 instead. What do you guys think would have happened if my motor had exploded a week later? Would Yamaha have stepped away and said, "Well, we analyzed your oil sample, and it looks like there's 10-40 in there, so you're on your own"? If any manufacturer could to that kind of specific high-speed analysis, I'd be amazed.

To this day, I use Castrol Actevo 10-40 semi-synthetic. I didn't like the way my bike shifted with the Rotella, and Cycle Gear sells the Castrol for $23/gallon. Never had a problem, and she runs strong. I use the Valvoline 75-90 full synthetic in my final drive and that's not had any issues either.

Stress less and ride more...Even if it is cold outside!

 

[Fred W]

So, back on topic. All you warranty-worry-worts, who think Yamaha would decline a claim because the exact perfect formulation they think should be in there isn't in there, please explain this:...

It'd never be a problem for anyone unless they happen to be that 1 in 10,000 that actually had a final drive problem during the warranty or YES. Then, perhaps even more so because it is so rare of an event, they would naturally want to try and find out what was different about yours that resulted in your rare problem.

They would ask you for proof that you had the unit serviced per the maintenance schedule, and if you are a DIY guy that means you'll need receipts (not just annotations in a log book that can easily be fabricated) for stuff like the filters and oil. That is how they would see what you've been using in your engine or final drive, not through some sort of exotic oil analysis.

I think the fact that they have previously published the GL5 spec, and also some various oil weights per ambient temp charts in some prior years that have the identical final drives and engines installed is all you would need to be able to say that the lube or oil that you've been using is appropriate. So that is a non-issue.

I've already said that I am not worried about it myself. I already have Mobil 1 in both the engine cases and the final drive of my new bike during the warranty. But what of those ignorant FJR owners that do not happen to participate in this forum, and therefore do not know about those alternate specs in the other model years, etc. They are going to think that the Yamaha proprietary stuff has to be used in the FD. It's a pretty shady marketing ploy for Yamaha to have used, IMO. I love their motorcycle product(s)... I don't love when they publish proprietary specifications like that.

 

[TomInPA]

But what of those ignorant FJR owners that do not happen to participate in this forum, and therefore do not know about those alternate specs in the other model years, etc. They are going to think that the Yamaha proprietary stuff has to be used in the FD. It's a pretty shady marketing ploy for Yamaha to have used, IMO. I love their motorcycle product(s)... I don't love when they publish proprietary specifications like that.

Fred, that is the reason NEPRT threads happen. Those owners arrive here all the time and ask the question. And everytime they do, we re-hash this discussion. I personally think the information in these threads is invaluable if you haven't seen it before. I also think it's not a bad thing to re-hash the information from time to time. What would we talk about here, if we couldn't repeat ourselves...we're old men for crying out loud! That's what we do best!

 

[HotRodZilla]

So, back on topic. All you warranty-worry-worts, who think Yamaha would decline a claim because the exact perfect formulation they think should be in there isn't in there, please explain this:...

It'd never be a problem for anyone unless they happen to be that 1 in 10,000 that actually had a final drive problem during the warranty or YES. Then, perhaps even more so because it is so rare of an event, they would naturally want to try and find out what was different about yours that resulted in your rare problem.

They would ask you for proof that you had the unit serviced per the maintenance schedule, and if you are a DIY guy that means you'll need receipts (not just annotations in a log book that can easily be fabricated) for stuff like the filters and oil. That is how they would see what you've been using in your engine or final drive, not through some sort of exotic oil analysis.

I think the fact that they have previously published the GL5 spec, and also some various oil weights per ambient temp charts in some prior years that have the identical final drives and engines installed is all you would need to be able to say that the lube or oil that you've been using is appropriate. So that is a non-issue.

I've already said that I am not worried about it myself. I already have Mobil 1 in both the engine cases and the final drive of my new bike during the warranty. But what of those ignorant FJR owners that do not happen to participate in this forum, and therefore do not know about those alternate specs in the other model years, etc. They are going to think that the Yamaha proprietary stuff has to be used in the FD. It's a pretty shady marketing ploy for Yamaha to have used, IMO. I love their motorcycle product(s)... I don't love when they publish proprietary specifications like that.

Fred, that was a well thought out, intelligent answer to a mostly facetious question. I know people can prove it it or not, but I just have a hard time seeing anyone really asking.

As to your disappointment with Yamaha, I know you know the answer, but I'll put it out here again: If any of us thinks Yamaha is in the business of building motorcycles for the enjoyment of the rider, we are fools. Yamaha, just like any other corporation is in it for the money. They will build a good product because it rewards them with repeat purchases and a good reputation. However, they will not stop questionable marketing ploys in order to raise their bottom line by selling branded oil products that are no better than what can be purchased at any other store. Yamaha doesn't care about us. They care about their profit.

 

[Fred W]

Spot on, AJ. And I do not begrudge them, or anyone else for that matter, for an intense desire to make a profit. As a business, any business, that is job 1. (Sorry Ford, it isn't Quality, no matter how you chant it) I just think that they could do that with more dignity and fortitude.

I happen to work in a (big) division of a major (the biggest) company that has no problem pulling such shenanigans on a regular basis. We do that kind of "proprietary" non-sense every day. It's a major part of how we can demand $250 - $350 an hour for our "technical" services. I don't agree with them any more than corporate Yamaha in using such tactics. I just keep my mouth shut (as another small fish) to remain employed, at least until retirement in a few years.

But if it were my business, or I was working in the marketing department making such decisions, I'd have a much harder time sleeping at night.

JSNS.

 

[MrZappo]

Spot on, AJ. And I do not begrudge them, or anyone else for that matter, for an intense desire to make a profit. As a business, any business, that is job 1. (Sorry Ford, it isn't Quality, no matter how you chant it) I just think that they <em class='bbc'>could </em>do that with more dignity and fortitude.<br />
<br />
I happen to work in a (big) division of a major (the biggest) company that has no problem pulling such shenanigans on a regular basis. We do that kind of "proprietary" non-sense every day. It's a major part of how we can demand $250 - $350 <em class='bbc'>an hour</em> for our "technical" services. I don't agree with them any more than corporate Yamaha in using such tactics. I just keep my mouth shut (as another small fish) to remain employed, at least until retirement in a few years. <br />
But if it were my business, or I was working in the marketing department making such decisions, I'd have a much harder time sleeping at night. <br />
<br />
JSNS.</p>

How long do you think you would have been employed if they had behaved more "ethically" as defined by you?

Salaries and shareholder profits have to come from somewhere.

You are probably seeing a specific "profit center" . There is another place that is a loss where they don't make much.

In any event, believe me, they sleep fine at night as would you if you were looking at the whole financial picture.

It's not a dignity thing, it's a business thing.

In any event, they are charging what the market will bear. And for the rest of us, we can buy it or use gl-5 whatever.

 

[Fred W]

How long do you think you would have been employed if they had behaved more "ethically" as defined by you?
Salaries and shareholder profits have to come from somewhere.

You are probably seeing a specific "profit center" . There is another place that is a loss where they don't make much.

In any event, believe me, they sleep fine at night as would you if you were looking at the whole financial picture.

It's not a dignity thing, it's a business thing.

In any event, they are charging what the market will bear. And for the rest of us, we can buy it or use gl-5 whatever.

Sorry, that is a gigantic load of bullshit. You can be effective in business and not intentionally trying to deceive people. In fact, contrary to what some assholes believe, many people develop a loyalty after being treated fairly. That is worth much more in the long run than a quick profit via a screw job. Short sightedness in business is a big problem.

You know nothing of me or my situation, so please don't offer me your bad advice.

 

[Pterodactyl]

I wonder what would happen if Yamaha, BMW or any other brand marketed their own line of lubricants at prices that slightly undercut what one would pay at an auto parts store. I bet they could still make a modest profit. But imagine if they had people regularly coming into their stores to buy their high use stuff like oils and filters. There is a lot to be gained by having increased traffic walking through your store to buy common use items. I was in my local Yamaha dealer recently to pick-up some special order parts. I also needed some coolant... the price made me gasp. The parts guy told me I didn't need the Yamaha stuff and recommended Prestone from the nearby Wally World. He realizes that it is a rip off and tries to take care of his customers. I think they may be losing more than they gain by pricing their crap so high.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Pterodactyl is absolutely right. I was in Cycle Gear three times this week. Each time for something I needed, knowing they were offering a good deal. I went to my Yamaha dealer exactly zero times, because everything they sell is 20-30% more than what I can buy it for somewhere else.

If their prices were reasonable, many more people would buy their oil, filters, and maintenance items from them. That would attract more customers to see their bikes and their accessories, resulting in more sales all around. As it is, I currently get my tires installed there but buy nothing from the parts dept.