Five fatalities in one accident?

[Silver Penguin]

Clicky Here

Saw this posted elsewhere, and I don't understand. Three bikes hit the same van. Rear, and both sides of the van. Sadly, five of the six people on the bikes died so it must have been a very substantial hit. Don't want to jump to any conclusion, blaming either van driver or motorcyclists, but how on earth did they do it?

 

[Happy Rider]

That's sad to hear. I can see this happening easily. I see the Harley guys riding in parade formations all of the time with very little space between the bikes. Alot of the groups like to hit the bars and don't really ride that often and never practice riding skills like fast stops. So add up the inexperience, alcohol, lack of an adaquate space cushion and no high visual horizon and you have a multiple vehicle pile up. It sucks to see anyone get hurt or killed.

 

[Nate]

This accident happened not far from my Pennsylvania home and I ride on that road quite often as I have friends in Manheim. It is indeed strange that the van was hit in the front and both sides. I'll be curious to see how this happened. Very sad.

 

[fljab]

That's sad to hear. I can see this happening easily. I see the Harley guys riding in parade formations all of the time with very little space between the bikes. Alot of the groups like to hit the bars and don't really ride that often and never practice riding skills like fast stops. So add up the inexperience, alcohol, lack of an adaquate space cushion and no high visual horizon and you have a multiple vehicle pile up.

I don't see anything in the article of how it happened, so we shouldn't jump to conclusions. The fact that the minivan involved was a taxi certainly throws the suspicion of fault in that direction IMO.

Very bad situation; I don't care what someone rides, they are still motorcyclists and it affects us all IMO.

 

[wfooshee]

^^^^ I was just fixing to say that. 3 bikes hit three different parts of the van? Were the bikes riding together? Who was moving in what direction? Was the van in a speeding locked-brakes spin down the road?

There's not enough information in this "report" to know anything other than 5 people are dead, and they were on motorcycles. It almost implies that it must have been their fault, because after all, they were on motorcycles. Harley-Davidsons, no less.

That's relevant how? When was the last time you saw "7-car pileup on freeway, all Fords."

 

[madmike2]

Clicky Here<snippage>

Three bikes hit the same van. Rear, and both sides of the van.<snippage> Don't want to jump to any conclusion, blaming either van driver or motorcyclists, but how on earth did they do it?

Easy (except the report says FRONT of the van)! At least, easy in my mind, if the van suddenly turned in front of the motorcyclists. Then the leader strikes the front, as van continues its path others strike along the sides with the 3rd bike striking at the rear wheel.

Of course I am not an accident reconstruction expert.

 

[FJRBluesman]

That is so tragic. Sad to read about these things, especially this rather strange one.

Of course I am not an accident reconstruction expert.

No, but you play one on the forum.

 

[Wee Willy]

Of course I am not an accident reconstruction expert.

Not to worry MM, there isn't enough info to even guess well. Weird. <_< & hard to piece back together on the few points of "fact."

Here are some thoughts I got from the article:

Assumptions: the MC's were traveling together (5 pm, daylight, all can see far enough ahead to avoid something already in the road).

• MC's at fault ("...struck a van...")? Also cited in this article. They were all ridin' Harleys...
• Van driver in "fair" condition tells me there's a good chance some serious energy is involved. Maybe the driver rolled it or flipped it. That could also explain multiple impact points. Another possibility is the bike were really moving, but spaced a bit. Each encountered the van in its own time and position. But three times in different places? Once maybe, twice unlikely, thrice highly unlikely.
• People are hard to kill, even when you shoot 'em with something big. One pretty sure way is to drive or roll over 'em though...lots of internal injuries, etc. Driving your bike into the side of a van at freeway speeds will do it too.
• Multiple impact points on the van says either the MC's were playing a losing game of demolition derby (not my choice) or the van was in some pretty serious rotational motion
• Daylight (5 pm) says this happened pretty quick...they were not spaced out.

Now, after this guessing game, I find this, this, and this.

Like I said above...weird. Sounds like some speed was involved with the bikes though.

W2

 

[FJRONAMISSION]

The van was spinning after the first impact...... High rate of speed likely for the MC's....... Van came out

of no where caught all off guard........

 

[Geezer]

I can only guess at the cause and reactions of the various drivers/riders involved. Since the motorcyclists were traveling north, and the impacts happened in the southbound lane (according to at least one of the articles), the only lesson I can get from this so far is to ALWAYS KEEP RIGHT. It is much safer to move to the right shoulder to avoid something in your lane than to switch over to the oncoming lane.

 

[lnewlf]

I saw three Harleys run into the back of a stopped car-happened right in front of me about a mile from my house. Up ahead a car had stopped to wait to make a left, a second car stopped behind the first and three Harleys [there were five of them in close formation] locked rear wheels and slid into the car. One guy died right there in the road. The first two Harleys braked properly and veered to either side of the car.

 

[Nate]

Another thought that adds to the puzzle is that the traffic on route 72 is usually quite heavy at 5pm. Odd that there seems to be no direct witnesses. Hopefully the taxi driver will be forthcoming with info, but I would guess he's lawyering up pretty fast.

 

[Spud]

"All were on HD's..."

I've always wondered if anyone has ever done a statistical analysis of the death rate for different brands/types of bikes. Nearly all of the fatalities I've seen reported around here are HD's. However, they are also the most common bike on the road (based on what I see), so don't know if it's a higher % or just a function of their being so popular.

 

[fljab]

"All were on HD's..."
I've always wondered if anyone has ever done a statistical analysis of the death rate for different brands/types of bikes.<snip>

Even if that was done, it would need to be per amount registered/ % of bikes registered. I don't have any facts or figures, but I'd think that HD is one of, if not the most bikes registered; It certainly seems that way down here. So if they are, then you'd expect them to have a higher # of accidents.

 

[Big-B]

Articles from the local newspaper in Lancaster. Still not much detail on what happened.

Mon

https://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/262127

Tues

https://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/262225

Weds

https://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/262559

 

[Braenen]

It sounds like the Taxi was going the wrong way, swerved one way and then the other just as the first bike hit causing the second bike to hit one side and the third to hit the other the other side. It sounds to me like the Taxi driver fell asleep.

Just guessin though...

 

[Big-B]

They filed charges against the taxi cab driver with 5 counts of vehicular homicide. He is a diabetic and had low blood sugar and was not able to keep the van under control.

Article from the Lancaster New Era

https://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/285003

They had a benefit ride for the lone survivor last month. She was in a coma and has not made it back to being herself do to head trauma but has been home since early August.

https://www.wgal.com/video/24561859/detail.html

Brian

 

[LagerHead]

"Alfred Moore, 64, of Harrisburg, who has a long list of prior motor vehicle code violations, was taken into custody Thursday night and placed in Lancaster County Prison after failing to post $50,000 bail."

Isn't it nice how we just let jackasses continue to rack up violation after violation until the inevitable happens? Lovely how we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings except maybe those of the families of 5 now dead motorcyclists.

+1 for the gubmint.

 

[Checkswrecks]

"Alfred Moore, 64, of Harrisburg, who has a long list of prior motor vehicle code violations, was taken into custody Thursday night and placed in Lancaster County Prison after failing to post $50,000 bail."
Isn't it nice how we just let jackasses continue to rack up violation after violation until the inevitable happens? Lovely how we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings except maybe those of the families of 5 now dead motorcyclists.

+1 for the gubmint.

I don't mind criticizing the Gummint when appropriate, but this has to do with attitude, not with the Gummint.

To begin with, it looks to me like Penn has plenty of ways to suspend or revoke and living just outside the PA border, I know they will use these:

https://www.dmv.com/pa/pennsylvania/suspended-license

Rather than fessing up and accepting the rules, most people will try not to.

Try Googling something like "pennsylvania operator license revocation"

See how many people are making a living by selling ways to "help" repeat violators.

And if that fails, just ask any motor officer if he/she's seen an unlicensed driver or two...

...since lunch.

As for how to hit multiple sides of a vehicle, yes it could be figured out. But speculating about reconstructions is usually wrong.