FJR brakes -- using the foot brake

[Auburn]

....I can attest that even with ABS, you can get the rear tire airborne. In my case, my racing background kicked in, I applied a rapid PROGRESSIVE pressure to the front brake lever. I slowed enough fast enough to prevent getting hit by the object.

Curious to know if you managed to stay out of the ABS during your stop. I had my first emergency stop on the FJR last week when a truck pulled out in front of me. Had the ABS activated both front and rear and didn't feel like I was ever close to lifting the rear wheel. Could be that I just jumped on the brakes too hard too quick and got into the ABS before enough weight had transferred to the front to really get a maximum effort stop. Also a possibility that I didn't have good enough traction conditions to get that much stopping power from the front. It worked out.

Probably had to do with the rate that I applied the brakes. I did very fast but progressively and did not "grab" the brake which would tend to cause the ABS to kick in due to no wieght transfer. Definitely from my road racing background and learning how to apply the brakes smoothly but rapidly too. Once I was braking at maximum effort, I could feel the ABS pulse a few times in the front lever, but the rear was definitely in the air about 6 inches.

EDIT: the rear tire did not touch back down until I started letting off the brake pressure on the front.

If you apply the brakes progressively (add more pressure as the wieght transfer to the front tire increases) you can squeeze the front lever as hard as you want once the wieght transfer has happened and you will not lock the front tire up if traction does not change under the front tire (i.e. gravel or moisture, etc...). You do have a lot more traction when braking wihile the bike is stright up and down (even in the wet) than you might think or believe you have.

On my last race bike a Honda RS250 GP bike, the front brakes were a one finger brake. You could dial in as much braking power as you wanted with total feedback and feel. You had to let a little pressure off to set the rear back down so you could lean into the turn. It was the most amazing brake system I have ever used. You could brake so hard with that bike that you could make the front tire slip on the rim, even with the tires air to the correct pressures.

 

[Jetpilot5]

Interesting. I had floated this idea (call it a scheme?) on other forums (VFR800 in particular) and never heard that it had already been done successfully before. Do you happen to know if the K1200RS also shares that braking feature? I'm particularly keen on picking up one of those some day.

ABS was available for sure but don't know if the brick engine K1200RS had the linked feature or not. I'm not as familiar with those bikes.

 

[Jetpilot5]

Probably had to do with the rate that I applied the brakes. I did very fast but progressively and did not "grab" the brake which would tend to cause the ABS to kick in due to no wieght transfer. Definitely from my road racing background and learning how to apply the brakes smoothly but rapidly too. Once I was braking at maximum effort, I could feel the ABS pulse a few times in the front lever, but the rear was definitely in the air about 6 inches.

EDIT: the rear tire did not touch back down until I started letting off the brake pressure on the front.

If you apply the brakes progressively (add more pressure as the wieght transfer to the front tire increases) you can squeeze the front lever as hard as you want once the wieght transfer has happened and you will not lock the front tire up if traction does not change under the front tire (i.e. gravel or moisture, etc...). You do have a lot more traction when braking wihile the bike is stright up and down (even in the wet) than you might think or believe you have.

On my last race bike a Honda RS250 GP bike, the front brakes were a one finger brake. You could dial in as much braking power as you wanted with total feedback and feel. You had to let a little pressure off to set the rear back down so you could lean into the turn. It was the most amazing brake system I have ever used. You could brake so hard with that bike that you could make the front tire slip on the rim, even with the tires air to the correct pressures.

You have excellent braking skills that served you very well in the heat of the moment. Nice job!

I have practiced hard stops with the FJR, including purposely activating the ABS. No question you can get the bike to stop harder by letting the weight transfer forward and staying out of the ABS. I think circumstances got the better of me last week. Glad the ABS was there.

 

[Bounce]

practicing panic stops at progressively higher speeds in a nice big empty parking lot is a great way to learn exactly how important the contribution of both brakes on the FJR is to survival. Also, its scary as shit to brake as hard as you can from 5mph. I cannot imagine it (yet) from 75mph./

Well it's great to hear an honest opinion isn't it! I can tell it when I hear it.

Yeah I agree Eric, it is scary as all get out. But that's why we HAVE to practice it! For those that think "Oh, I'll do it when I have to"... no you won't. You'll be too afraid. Guaranteed.

tell you what though. the practice pays off when you're heading down a deserted secondary, loaded down with 2 weeks of rally load, come through a curve and find paw kettle dead stopped in the middle of the road for no apparent reason.

the Gen1 (non-abs) brakes can sound like cicadas through your helmet and ear plugs when you make them earn their pay but they stop that fucking pigbike damn skippy.

Looking back, it was progressive force on the front and regressive on the back as it got lighter.

 

[Auburn]

Another option to learn braking techniques if you are inclined is to take a racing school like California superbike. It is designed to teach racing skills or which braking is a very important component. You can rent their bikes, pratice it in a controlled environment. Very worth while. There are many out there that have been around along time that rent bikes. You may even get teh bug to get a track bike and do that. It gives you a chance to practice those skills to the extreme.

It will definitely make you a better street rider.

 

[Fred W]

The only down side to that is that those superbikes will stop a whole lot quicker than our piggy FJRs, especially the ones with ABS. Practicing on your own bike (in a controlled conditions scenario) has some merit.

Interesting. I had floated this idea (call it a scheme?) on other forums (VFR800 in particular) and never heard that it had already been done successfully before. Do you happen to know if the K1200RS also shares that braking feature? I'm particularly keen on picking up one of those some day.

ABS was available for sure but don't know if the brick engine K1200RS had the linked feature or not. I'm not as familiar with those bikes.

Isn't the K1200S a brick engine also?

 

[Ken45]

Wow, I am surprised at how much response my original message generated!

Just to be clear, I never said, "don't use the front brake lever", but rather that the foot brake does an excellent job since it activates the front and rear brakes together and has excellent braking for most stops or slow downs. Yes, my hand goes to the brake lever automatically but I get good, smooth deceleration mostly applying the foot lever (which is front and back brakes). Yes, on more than just scrubbing a few mph, the front lever is used too but more as an "additive, support as needed" use than a "85% of the braking" as it would be on a non-FJR. Unlike older bikes where the foot lever is of small (but still useful) value.

I would never put a lot of pressure on the foot lever on the CB-750 because the rear wheel will quickly break loose. Not so with the FJR.

As for MSF training, I expect they are teaching to the common denominator where the brakes are not linked and not ABS. A horse of a different color than the FJR. On many other bikes, that is done with more hand pressure and less foot pressure than on the FJR.

Ken

 

[azitlies]

Wow, I am surprised at how much response my original message generated!

Just to be clear, I never said, "don't use the front brake lever", but rather that the foot brake does an excellent job since it activates the front and rear brakes together and has excellent braking for most stops or slow downs. Yes, my hand goes to the brake lever automatically but I get good, smooth deceleration mostly applying the foot lever (which is front and back brakes). Yes, on more than just scrubbing a few mph, the front lever is used too but more as an "additive, support as needed" use than a "85% of the braking" as it would be on a non-FJR. Unlike older bikes where the foot lever is of small (but still useful) value.

I would never put a lot of pressure on the foot lever on the CB-750 because the rear wheel will quickly break loose. Not so with the FJR.

As for MSF training, I expect they are teaching to the common denominator where the brakes are not linked and not ABS. A horse of a different color than the FJR. On many other bikes, that is done with more hand pressure and less foot pressure than on the FJR.

Ken

Ken, the MSF teaches braking the same way, no matters what kind of braking system you have. We do that in the Confident Riders Courses, where you ride your own bike. Nothing to do with "common denominator".

 

[Bungie]

Another option to learn braking techniques if you are inclined is to take a racing school like California superbike. It is designed to teach racing skills or which braking is a very important component.

It will definitely make you a better street rider.

This.

You should still practice on YOUR bike, but this will give you the confidence to try it.

 

[Auburn]

Another option to learn braking techniques if you are inclined is to take a racing school like California superbike. It is designed to teach racing skills or which braking is a very important component.

It will definitely make you a better street rider.

This.

You should still practice on YOUR bike, but this will give you the confidence to try it.

I agree, just another avenue for those that don't want to start out by risking dropping their street bike.

 

[Redfish Hunter]

I'll tell you what the MSF teaches, and I'll tell you why.

But before even getting into that... who do you think is the most up to date? with modern motorcycle capabilities? Some Old Wives tale you learned 30 or 40 years ago, or the MSF?

Guys (and Gals of course), the MSF teaches us to use BOTH BRAKES for a reason. They want it to be a HABIT, an INSTINCT, if you will. The point is that we never know when an emergency situation will occur (that's why we call them emergencies, we can't predict them).

And studies have proven that we will go with our instincts in those situations. If your instinct is to use 1 finger on the front brake, that's what you'll do. If your habit is to just use the back brake, that's what you'll do. etc etc etc.

Now of course you'll recognize this isn't your normal braking situation soon enough. But every fraction of a second counts in an Emergency, every fraction. Don't rely on 'Oh, I'll use both in an emergency of course, and I'll use them to their fullest extent'... because you won't. That's not the way it works. If you don't practice BOTH BRAKE Emergency Braking, you'll be too afraid of doing it when the time comes.

I agree 100% with this. What you practice becomes habit and in emergency situations you will practice your habits. Learn to do it the right way and practice it often. One aspect of this that hasn't been mentioned is riding with the front lever covered. The fingers of my right hand glove are aluminum colored from riding on the front brake lever. Things can become a habit so easily.

 

[Jetpilot5]

Isn't the K1200S a brick engine also?

The K1200/1300S use the slant engine.

The older K1200RS, which is what I think you're thinking of, uses the brick engine, the inline 4 laying on it's side.

And I agree with all who say you're going to play like you train.

 

[HotRodZilla]

Wow, I am surprised at how much response my original message generated!

Just to be clear, I never said, "don't use the front brake lever", but rather that the foot brake does an excellent job since it activates the front and rear brakes together and has excellent braking for most stops or slow downs. Yes, my hand goes to the brake lever automatically but I get good, smooth deceleration mostly applying the foot lever (which is front and back brakes). Yes, on more than just scrubbing a few mph, the front lever is used too but more as an "additive, support as needed" use than a "85% of the braking" as it would be on a non-FJR. Unlike older bikes where the foot lever is of small (but still useful) value.

I would never put a lot of pressure on the foot lever on the CB-750 because the rear wheel will quickly break loose. Not so with the FJR.

As for MSF training, I expect they are teaching to the common denominator where the brakes are not linked and not ABS. A horse of a different color than the FJR. On many other bikes, that is done with more hand pressure and less foot pressure than on the FJR.

Ken

Sorry Ken, I think you're way over thinking this. Remember that even though the brakes are linked, the rear pedal only activates one of the front four pistons. It also runs through a porportioning valve, so unless you have jammed the pedal in an emergency, the front wheel isnt doing much slowing.

People hear "linked brakes" and think the bike will do the work for them. This is not the case, and you should be using the front brake just like on any other bike. The linked brakes are a tool, and like any other tool can cause just as much harm as good if used incorrectly.

Take your bike to a big parking lot and practice braking technique. You'll be surprised how hard these brakes will pull the FJR down.

 

[cpr1200r100]

Relearning to use rear brake. I'm coming off a Beemer w ABS/linked brakes to a non ABS FJR.

 

[1198spilot]

I'm new to this form I don't have a FJR yet but I'm buying 1 soon. I've never use the rear brake evening doing about 150MPH at the track I've never use the rear brake.

I guest this is a much heavier bike I'll have learn how to use the rear brake.