FJR Wet Clutch

[jpalamaro]

One of the less than desirable features of the BMW cycles (opinion) prior to the new K12S/R is BMW's is the dry clutch. I thought the dry clutch went the way of the grist mill years ago. Although clutch problems don't seem to be a problem.

What I find interesting is the electronic clutch management on the AE. I haven't read too much but should presume (should we) that the 'system' operates as to maximize the life of the clutch by proper usage; e.g. proper engine RPM matching speed, just the correct amount of clutch slippage at slow speeds, etc. etc. Anyone have any thoughts or info on this? And, seems that the AE (I have one on order) better be bought with an extended warranty plan. Are they available?

 

[FJRMGM]

ummm, why was/is a dry clutch undesirable?

I had a K75s for 13 years and never once did I miss the "clunk" when putting it in gear when it was cold.

I had no issues whatsoever with the dry clutch for the life of the bike.

 

[jpalamaro]

[i thought the dry clutch went the way of the grist mill years ago. Although clutch problems don't seem to be a problem.]

They did change the clutch to wet on new 12S/R/GT and there have been some issues with the dry clutch, although not as much of a problem as I thought it would be: For example, on the BMW RTP, Police Cycle, different riding skills needed for that over let's say the more popular HD's with the wet clutch e.g. friction zone (slip clutch), rear-brake slow speed maneuvering.

Anyhow, real purpose of the post was the AE and its clutch management system.

 

[markjenn]

Both dry and wet clutches have their advantages and disadvantages. The big advantage of a wet clutch over a dry clutch are that it is more tolerant of abuse - a lot of BMWs are good for only a couple of drag strip starts before their clutches overheat and go up in smoke. A wet clutch has a high tolerance for absue because they're being cooled by engine oil. And if you do fry one, they're relatively easy and cheap to replace.

The big disadvantage of a wet clutch is that it shares oil with the engine. This means that the lubricant used for the engine has to do double-duty as a clutch lubricant (and typically tranny too) with the associated issues of oil additives and types possibly causing clutch problems. Any lubricant is a compromise when it has to do three different things. And it also means that your engine oil is constantly being contaminated with clutch debris. Fortunately clutch debris isn't very abrasive and is effectively caught by the oil filter.

Six for one, half-dozen for the other in my book. I would never characterize a dry clutch as "grist mill" technology. They're in nearly all manual tranny cars (and F1 cars for that matter). The wet clutch is a motorcycle thing and is done mostly because it is an cheap abuse-tolerant design that is cheap to maintain and replace. The shared oil problem is tolerated.

I suspect the AE will clutch nearly flawlessly. Computers are better than people at these sorts of things. Reliability is an unknown, so perhaps getting the extended warranty is prudent.

- Mark

 

[Geezer]

I would hope that the engineers designed the operation of the clutch on the AE to maximize the intended function and performance rather than focus on longevity. Not that I expect any reliability problems to arise specific to the way the AE treats the clutch, I just don't see reliability as a problem they had to be concerned about.

 

[BBIII]

I would hope that the engineers designed the operation of the clutch on the AE to maximize the intended function and performance rather than focus on longevity. Not that I expect any reliability problems to arise specific to the way the AE treats the clutch, I just don't see reliability as a problem they had to be concerned about.

AE model...just buy a scooter and move to the ghey bay and get it over with :lol: (turbodave excluded of course)

 

[GalaxyBlue]

AE model...just buy a scooter and move to the ghey bay and get it over with  :lol: (turbodave excluded of course)

+1 :haha:

 

[turbodave_98]

Hey Fellas, I already have a scooter, a Saloor HS-3180, 33 cubic cc gas motor. It goes a whooping 10 mph MAX!!. When you reach my senior citizen status, most of you 2 wheel nuts(like me) will want to have a Saloor scooter!! Merry Christams to ALL.

TurboDave

 

[tripletango]

I would hope that the engineers designed the operation of the clutch on the AE to maximize the intended function and performance rather than focus on longevity. Not that I expect any reliability problems to arise specific to the way the AE treats the clutch,  I just don't see reliability as a problem they had to be concerned about.

AE model...just buy a scooter and move to the ghey bay and get it over with :lol: (turbodave excluded of course)

In the UK we had the Mods who rode scooters Vespas, Lambrettas and the Rockers that were cafe racers, Triumphs, Nortons, BSA etc.

Not sure what percent of which had come out of the closet!!

However I must admit that I have placed an order for an AE. I have an 05 now, just finished a trip from San Carlos CA back to Dallas TX so ride a lot in cities and along torn up interstates, when not riding beautiful roads like CA 34 or in the Hill Country of TX etc.

Now along with a Speed Triple I also own a mega scooter so I am used to all types of transmissions and genre of road bike. There is no beating the ease of use of a fully auto transmission when tooling along in traffic where ever it is. Conversley a manual tranny is a blast everywhere else.

The FJR for me fullfills the need for very fast tourer, certainly sporty almost a complete road bike for all types of road situations, the AE adds that extra dimension, now it will be a cinch to eek along in traffic and also blast along with no brainer WOT gear shifts and smooth downshifts.

This ease of use is less stressful on the body so the miles will come more easily on those 700+ days.

I think that clutch life will be good and if you open the throttle fully on launch the clutch slip will be controlled to just eliminate wheel spin. Just a guess but makes sense.

As an aside. Talking to a friend over a cup of coffee. He related that his buddy was running at 80 down an interstate and this dam scooter came past him like he was standing still. What color was it, silver, where was it. I realised that was me.

These large hybrid scoots can be shifted manually, haul ass, stop well and lean way futher than any cruiser in corners. Talk about a wolf in sheeps clothing!

 

[tripletango]

Then you got this auto trans beauty. This should fire up the hormones!

https://news.motorcycle.com/article.motml?sid=3484

 

[tripletango]

And all these testosterone loaded beauties!!

https://www.motorcyclenews.com/nav?page=mot...=NEWS_NEW-BIKES

 

[FuzzyRider2]

I just got a 08 AE and have 15 more days to decide on the YES warranty or not. I wish those of you with technical expertise and longer experience with the AE would chime in on this thread. Thanks!

 

[kolonial72]

On the subject of dry clutches, don't most Ducs have dry clutches? Perhaps a wet clutch is better for a bigger, heavier bike like the FJR.

 

[BobMercer]

Personally, I don't hesitate to purchase the Yamaha extended warranty. I had it on my '05 and now have it on my '07AE. You can purchase it from D&H Yamaha in Cullman, AL for $389.00. You will have it if you need it, and if not it's a great feature to have if you sell the bike. Relatively cheap insurance for the few things that could go wrong.

Bob

 

[BwanaDik]

Personally, I don't hesitate to purchase the Yamaha extended warranty. I had it on my '05 and now have it on my '07AE. You can purchase it from D&H Yamaha in Cullman, AL for $389.00. You will have it if you need it, and if not it's a great feature to have if you sell the bike. Relatively cheap insurance for the few things that could go wrong.

Bob

+1

40,000+ miles on mine with zero issues but the warrenty is cheap compared to any minor fix. Get it!

 

[Crash Cash]

On the subject of dry clutches, don't most Ducs have dry clutches? Perhaps a wet clutch is better for a bigger, heavier bike like the FJR.

Yeah, but that's because Ducs want to be racebikes. And because Ducati doesn't do anything cheap. Same reason they have the ultra-high-rpm desmo valves.

One thing people haven't mentioned is dry clutches are NOISY - I used to be able to hear my roommate coming home 5 blocks away when he pulled in the clutch on his limited-edition GSXR. It's like a really large set of keys being dangled and shaken hard.

Plus the steels will rust and stick together when they get wet. If his bike got rained on, he'd have to spend 5 minutes trying to unstick the plates. Sometimes he could just pull in the clutch and bang the bike back and forth, and sometimes he had to get someone to hold in the clutch while he picked the plates apart with a screwdriver. Of course this was 25 years ago, they may have gotten better at that.

 

[charismaticmegafauna]

I just got a 08 AE and have 15 more days to decide on the YES warranty or not. I wish those of you with technical expertise and longer experience with the AE would chime in on this thread. Thanks!

As far as FJR clutches go: I only remember reading of one (1) failure on this Forum -- and he was competing in a 'slow ride' event (and, maybe?, abusing the friction-zone a little more than normal...?).

 

[mcatrophy]

I just got a 08 AE and have 15 more days to decide on the YES warranty or not. I wish those of you with technical expertise and longer experience with the AE would chime in on this thread. Thanks!

As far as FJR clutches go: I only remember reading of one (1) failure on this Forum -- and he was competing in a 'slow ride' event (and, maybe?, abusing the friction-zone a little more than normal...?).

Totally agree. My '06 suffered many miles of slipping abuse in heavy crawling city traffic. And it was dry. Showed no signs of wear when I soaked it. That was at just over 20000 miles, but a fair proportion were actually slipping.

(Click on image for larger view)

 

[fastpappy]

Haven't had any problems with my 09AE but I bought the YES as extra insurance better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. The bike is technichaly advanced and I'm not. I can maintain and fix lots of things but I like having the peice of mind that when I hit the wall I have options. Just my two cents. :mellow: