FJRF009.2: "Intermittent Ground Wire Connection"

[olsonm3915]

Even if using connectors was cheaper than crimps (which can also be done with automated equipment), the electrical design which overloads the rating of the connector, due to improper topology (for lack of a better word) is the real head-scratcher.

 

[road runner]

I know that packing electrical connectors with dielectric grease is the holy grail for fixing electrical problems for some people, but being in the electrical/electronics field I can tell you that this is not a common industry practice for a reason.

[/unpopular view]

That is good to know. I'd like to know more about were and were not to use it. I was told it was OK to use on open connectors like the spiders, but not a good idea to use it on weather paks, although I have and had good luck. I don't know why, other than it may cause a hydraulic pressure and damage the sockets in the connector. Just a guess. Or maybe because it's non-conductive.

It seems to be working for me. I have just over 50,000 miles on the clock, and spiders are all OK. It's been about 1.5 years and about 25,00 miles since the overload harnesses were put in. Greased the spiders twice, once each winter for the last 2 years, and still no sign of corrosion or overheating.

If dielectric grease is a bad idea then maybe a conductive grease would be a better idea for keeping water out. I know the spiders are not optimal, but just playing the hand dealt.

Something that has me wondering is that I haven't seen any spiders with the typical green corrosion. Maybe they're out there,but I haven't seen them. I think any electric connection I've seen fail from corrosion from water had some green corrosion in it. I've seen all black melted spiders, but no green corroded ones. Even ones that were caught early to my knowledge were black not green. So in my mind if corrosion is causing the heat, then were is the corrosion ? I guess I'm still leaning toward the overload theory, but it could be both corrosion, and overload I just haven't seen it. As far as 1 or 2 S7 spiders failing, who knows. It could have been a bad crimp, or not enough tension on a terminal end.

 

[Woketman]

What exactly IS dielectric grease? I thought the whole idea was that is WAS conductive grease! It's not???

 

[chivvalry]

Wow... Do NOT put conductive grease in your spiders.

 

[ionbeam]

Wow... Do NOT put conductive grease in your spiders.

Wow, this would be one of the very rare and special times where CONDUCTIVE grease would be both good and your friend. You want nothing less than perfect conduction between each and every one of the six pins. DO NOT use CONDUCTIVE grease on any other connectors other than the spiders.

 

[Woketman]

Why? It seems to me (being an electrical *****) that conductive grease would be great for any mechanical connection that needs to be removable in nature. Why would you NOT want it?

 

[ionbeam]

What exactly IS dielectric grease? I thought the whole idea was that is WAS conductive grease! It's not???

It is not conductive grease, it is just the opposite!!!!! Dielectric grease is highly insulating grease. If you have a bayonet style brass base signal/tail light bulb like a 1157 it was suggested that you put a small film of grease around the brass base to keep water out of the one/two contact power points in the base of the bulb socket. But, just as important the grease was to keep the brass base lubricated so that it didn't freeze in the socket and could be removed when necessary. That's it, the typical use for dielectric grease. In electronics it might go on a silicon pad that insulates a power transistor from ground, yet transfers heat to a base plate.

Typical 1157 bulb type.

 

[RadioHowie]

I think an interesting point of this recent thread drift centers on the premise of "Why Did Yamaha Design The Harness This Way?"

I'd bet my right AND left one that Yamaha didn't....design it, that is.

It's very typical for any manufacturer to farm out as much of their manufacturing as possible, and I'd also bet the harness is one of the farmed-out products. Probably built by Matsushita or some such other electronics conglomerate.

Yamaha engineers spec out the design something like "we need a wire harness with X number of inputs, Y number of outputs and Z number of grounds" and the actual manufacturer says "they want a harness with X number of inputs, Y number of outputs and Z number of grounds....now, lets save some money the only way we can -- we can't change the number of inputs and outputs, but we CAN strap a bunch of grounds together and cut down our productions costs." Yamaha gets a harness that works (when the bike is fired up at the end of the assembly line) and the vendor sames $1.50 on each of the 30,000 harness it makes.

I'd LOVE to see the packaging in which the replacement harnesses are delivered. Get some idea who actually mfg'd them.

Find out who vendors the harness and start writing THEM some nasty letters.

I think an interesting point of this recent thread drift centers on the premise of "Why Did Yamaha Design The Harness This Way?"

I'd bet my right AND left one that Yamaha didn't....design it, that is.

It's very typical for any manufacturer to farm out as much of their manufacturing as possible, and I'd also bet the harness is one of the farmed-out products. Probably built by Matsushita or some such other electronics conglomerate.

Yamaha engineers spec out the design something like "we need a wire harness with X number of inputs, Y number of outputs and Z number of grounds" and the actual manufacturer says "they want a harness with X number of inputs, Y number of outputs and Z number of grounds....now, lets save some money the only way we can -- we can't change the number of inputs and outputs, but we CAN strap a bunch of grounds together and cut down our productions costs." Yamaha gets a harness that works (when the bike is fired up at the end of the assembly line) and the vendor sames $1.50 on each of the 30,000 harness it makes.

I'd LOVE to see the packaging in which the replacement harnesses are delivered. Get some idea who actually mfg'd them.

Find out who vendors the harness and start writing THEM some nasty letters.

 

[chivvalry]

You are sure that all six pins are grounds? Then I retract.

 

[ionbeam]

You are sure that all six pins are grounds? Then I retract.

Yes, guarantee, each of the Sx connectors are grounds only.

 

[chivvalry]

Why? It seems to me (being an electrical *****) that conductive grease would be great for any mechanical connection that needs to be removable in nature. Why would you NOT want it?

Conductive grease will short the connections together. Great if they are all grounds but really bad if they are not. You then have a ground short and possible fire. Since ion guarantees the spiders are all grounds it would be fine in those.

 

[ionbeam]

I think an interesting point of this recent thread drift centers on the premise of "Why Did Yamaha Design The Harness This Way?"

I'd bet my right AND left one that Yamaha didn't....design it... Yamaha engineers spec out the design something like "we need a wire harness with X number of inputs, Y number of outputs and Z number of grounds" and the actual manufacturer says "they want a harness with X number of inputs, Y number of outputs and Z number of grounds....now, lets save some money the only way we can -- we can't change the number of inputs and outputs, but we CAN strap a bunch of grounds together and cut down our productions costs." ....now, lets save some money the only way we can -- we can't change the number of inputs and outputs, but we CAN strap a bunch of grounds together and cut down our productions costs." ...

The prime thread of "Intermittent Ground Wire Connection" drifts and perhaps these recent posts need a new thread and let the original thread get back to the recall information.

Industry does tend to follow effective results, and bundled ground connectors are the current Thing in power sports. But, engineering is part of the whole deal too. Not only do the manufacturers have to spec pin count but most importantly performance numbers too, such as voltage and current. Part of engineering is de-rating based on temperature and environment. When you look up a wire amperage table it is specified at a particular temperature, if the temps go up the rating goes down. Plus the engineering has to take in consideration the environmental effects. Someplace along the line a decimal place was dropped or optimism overcame cost. The concept of grounding through a grounding clip isn't fundamentally flawed and isn't cost over performance compromised, but it seems to have been understudied in requirements in this case. Hence my suggestion of a weather sealed plug with pins that are vastly better at electrical connections than the Yamaha spade connectors in the grounding connectors.

 

[RadioHowie]

I think an interesting point of this recent thread drift centers on the premise of "Why Did Yamaha Design The Harness This Way?"

I'd bet my right AND left one that Yamaha didn't....design it... Yamaha engineers spec out the design something like "we need a wire harness with X number of inputs, Y number of outputs and Z number of grounds" and the actual manufacturer says "they want a harness with X number of inputs, Y number of outputs and Z number of grounds....now, lets save some money the only way we can -- we can't change the number of inputs and outputs, but we CAN strap a bunch of grounds together and cut down our productions costs." ....now, lets save some money the only way we can -- we can't change the number of inputs and outputs, but we CAN strap a bunch of grounds together and cut down our productions costs." ...

The prime thread of "Intermittent Ground Wire Connection" drifts and perhaps these recent posts need a new thread and let the original thread get back to the recall information.

Industry does tend to follow effective results, and bundled ground connectors are the current Thing in power sports. But, engineering is part of the whole deal too. Not only do the manufacturers have to spec pin count but most importantly performance numbers too, such as voltage and current. Part of engineering is de-rating based on temperature and environment. When you look up a wire amperage table it is specified at a particular temperature, it the temps go up the rating goes down. Plus the engineering has to take in consideration the environmental effects. Someplace along the line a decimal place was dropped or optimism overcame cost. The concept of grounding through a grounding clip isn't fundamentally flawed and isn't cost over performance compromised, but it seems to have been understudied in requirements in this case. Hence my suggestion of a weather sealed plug with pins that are vastly better at electrical connections than the Yamaha spade connectors in the grounding connectors.

Absolutely agree!

 

[ColoradoFJR]

Colorado FJR,

Colorado Power Sports in Northglenn has some excellent techs working there. They did all my recalls and had all the highest Yamaha ratings. I bought my bike there and they were always very careful when they had it in the shop.

Thanks scubatech for the recommendation - I work in Brighton, so I will swing by at lunch sometime soon and talk to the service folks!

ColoradoFJR

 

[ColoradoFJR]

Has anyone taken in their FJR for the fix and it also has an electronic cruise control installed? I installed the MCCruise on my FJR and don't want to remove it just to get this recall installed.

How do the service techs deal with this type of aftermarket installation? Should I copy the installation manual for the MCCruise and give it to the service tech? Since Yamaha only pays a limited amount of shop labor as part of this recall, asking the service tech to work around my MCCruise will probably cause the service tech to not get reimbursed for all of his labor - not the best way to get great service.

I have the Audiovox cruise control installed under the tank, in front of the coolant crossover pipe and completely blocking the wires for the ignition switch. Imagine my concern when I had the ignition switch recall done last year. The Service Manager said he asked for additional time from Yamaha Corporate because of the extra work involved to remove the coolant crossover pipe and move my cruise servo out of the way, and Yamaha agreed. The downside?? Yamaha made him put a note in my file to the effect that "This owner has an unapproved electronic cruise control device installed. Yamaha disavows any liability from its use and recommends its immediate removal."

Regarding the current recall, my bike was in the shop for a blown fork seal, which Yamaha covered under YES as a one-time favor, according to the Service manager, so they did the wiring harness inspection at the same time. Finding no damage at S4, they installed the stub harness and buttoned it up. They completed the replacement of both fork seals, as well as the stub harness, in about half a day.

I have roadrunner's harness installed, and they either didn't notice or didn't care. I assume they didn't notice since you can't see it by raising the tank.

Thanks for the input - I will talk to the shop before I bring in my FJR and see if they want a copy of the install manual when they do the recalls.

 

[HIGHLANDER]

Wow... Do NOT put conductive grease in your spiders.

Wow, this would be one of the very rare and special times where CONDUCTIVE grease would be both good and your friend. You want nothing less than perfect conduction between each and every one of the six pins. DO NOT use CONDUCTIVE grease on any other connectors other than the spiders.

Are there any connections that we should not fill with dielectric grease on the FJR ? When my fairing come back off I'm thinking of greasing every connection, bad idea ? ( I can't be the only guy thinking this ? )

 

[PhilJet09]

Why? It seems to me (being an electrical *****) that conductive grease would be great for any mechanical connection that needs to be removable in nature. Why would you NOT want it?

Conductive grease will short the connections together. Great if they are all grounds but really bad if they are not. You then have a ground short and possible fire. Since ion guarantees the spiders are all grounds it would be fine in those.

If you aren't completely convinced, just look at the spider plate. It's one solid plate with legs that connect all the wires together...to that one solid plate. Electrically, it doesn't matter if the terminal block is used for ground wires or not, they are all joined together by the spider plate, so you'd want to do everything possible to improve that...like using conductive grease.

 

[rfespinosa]

Has anyone taken in their FJR for the fix and it also has an electronic cruise control installed? I installed the MCCruise on my FJR and don't want to remove it just to get this recall installed.

How do the service techs deal with this type of aftermarket installation? Should I copy the installation manual for the MCCruise and give it to the service tech? Since Yamaha only pays a limited amount of shop labor as part of this recall, asking the service tech to work around my MCCruise will probably cause the service tech to not get reimbursed for all of his labor - not the best way to get great service.

I have the Audiovox cruise control installed under the tank, in front of the coolant crossover pipe and completely blocking the wires for the ignition switch. Imagine my concern when I had the ignition switch recall done last year. The Service Manager said he asked for additional time from Yamaha Corporate because of the extra work involved to remove the coolant crossover pipe and move my cruise servo out of the way, and Yamaha agreed. The downside?? Yamaha made him put a note in my file to the effect that "This owner has an unapproved electronic cruise control device installed. Yamaha disavows any liability from its use and recommends its immediate removal."

Regarding the current recall, my bike was in the shop for a blown fork seal, which Yamaha covered under YES as a one-time favor, according to the Service manager, so they did the wiring harness inspection at the same time. Finding no damage at S4, they installed the stub harness and buttoned it up. They completed the replacement of both fork seals, as well as the stub harness, in about half a day.

I have roadrunner's harness installed, and they either didn't notice or didn't care. I assume they didn't notice since you can't see it by raising the tank.

Thanks for the input - I will talk to the shop before I bring in my FJR and see if they want a copy of the install manual when they do the recalls.

I have the MCCruise Control on my '08 FJR when the ignition switch recall was done. It was a non issue. I didn't mention it, they didn't mention it. I don't think it will impact this recall either since there are no connections or hardware in the way. If you mention it, it will give them something to think about and complaint about. If it's a problem, let them bring it up. I don't plan to mention it to my dealer when I bring it in, although they already know my bike has this.

 

[road runner]

Here's a link to the old spider bench racing thread. As Alan said it may be better to use another thread for spider fixes and theories, and keep this thread on topic, about the recall.

 

[jetrep]

jetrep,

This link may help you out:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s=&showtopic=124616&view=findpost&p=682622

Perfect, thank you.

Jet