Fork oil/fork R&R scheduled mileage? && need min. Volts to run bike?

[blakmambo]

Just popped over 20K yesterday on the 09er; on previous bikes I've tried for 20K on the fork oil, so a few weeks back I read through some posts here on the topic--the owners manual doesn't seem to list suggested miles for fork maintenance?

I do about 60/40 two-up, as higher mile trips are often with the two of us, which obviously weights the shock more. What was of interest here on the forum was finding comments about, "skipping fork oil changes, because at 35K the bushings will be shot, so wait until there is a clanking noise and then rebuild the forks . . ." words to that effect?? Seemed like a mixed bag on the recommends, some saying, "Change the oil . . . sometime . . ." and the others saying, "Thrash them, then go for total rebuild . . ." ???

Personally I try to keep up with regular maintenance to push total rebuilds down the road as far as possible??? No? I'll be "lucky" if I get 30Kout of the forks?? Generally I ride slower than "an old lady" . . . although I'm starting to figure out the 5 speed gear ratio throttle spring/rev limiter thing . . . .

Another question, is there a min. battery voltage to run the Gen II machine? A couple weeks ago I check the voltage standing on the battery at 12.98 V . . . yesterday the co-pilot left her electric vest on in stop light to stoplight traffic after landing from the local highway, and on re-start from unlocking garage door the fan was blowing and the engine barely cranked for a minute, I thought the battery was "depleted" even though I was keeping the Rs up as much as possible in traffic 2500-400K . . . but, it fired and I pulled in to park it. Even though the bike had been running for a couple hours straight the battery showed 12.74 V. Put it on the charger for a couple hours and it came up to 12.98V . . . I usually like to run the batts down to somewhere under 12 before I replace them, but seems like that might be a problem on the FJR?? Needs fresh clean juice from a fresh new battery every couple years??

 

[Fred W]

12.8V is a fully charged battery. When you see it up at 12.9 or 13V after charging that is a surface charge that will dissipate very quickly when any small load is placed on it. I wouldn't be worried about the battery charge level if it is 12.7X with the engine off.

Now, that doesn't mean the battery is definitely good, but it doesn't indicate it is bad. It's possible for a battery to be able to be charged up to 12.8V but unable to produce the required current for starting. You'd need to load test the battery to know for sure.

Be aware that the FJR starter motors have been known to go bad and produce similar symptoms (hard starting / slow turnover) But the starter is hard to get to, so rule out everything else, and see if you can find a DC Clamp on ammeter so you can test the starting load current. If the start is drawing much more than about 80 amps it's probably a goner.

 

[Fontanaman]

I have an 09 as well with 77k miles. The bushings are shot at 30k miles. The bushing have teflon coating and give themselves up into the oil meaning the oil is full of fine teflon grit. I change my fork oil annually in the fall before putting the bike up for the winter. (I live in Seattle). I would change the fork oil at least every 12 to 15k miles.

Watch the forum for a tech day in your area. With a few good men you can change the fork bushings yourself. There is an awesome tech day in the Seattle area twice a year hosted by forumite AuburnFJR.

Lastly if you have stock suspension on your 09 the suspension is not very good. To fix this you have two options. After market suspension or you can save some money by installing a new Gen III rear shock as they have a stiffer spring. Some are riding on Gen III A models (not ES) and find the rear shock is very good for their needs and these will fit your Gen II. I have a Penske rear shock and GP Suspension up front and it transformed the handling of the bike - now it responds to input much quicker with less effort.

 

[blakmambo]

12.8V is a fully charged battery. When you see it up at 12.9 or 13V after charging that is a surface charge that will dissipate very quickly when any small load is placed on it. I wouldn't be worried about the battery charge level if it is 12.7X with the engine off.
Be aware that the FJR starter motors have been known to go bad and produce similar symptoms (hard starting / slow turnover) But the starter is hard to get to, so rule out everything else, and see if you can find a DC Clamp on ammeter so you can test the starting load current. If the start is drawing much more than about 80 amps it's probably a goner.

@Fred:

Appreciate the reply, but, it sounds like you are saying that if the battery drops below 12.7 standing it might be time for a new battery? This is my first FI bike, so I don't know how much juice is needed to keep it all going . . . . I'm used to being able to run a battery down much lower before having to make the "investment" . . . to me 12.7 V is still "brand new" and good to go for another few years . . . .

I have an 09 as well with 77k miles. The bushings are shot at 30k miles. The bushing have teflon coating and give themselves up into the oil meaning the oil is full of fine teflon grit. I change my fork oil annually in the fall before putting the bike up for the winter. (I live in Seattle). I would change the fork oil at least every 12 to 15k miles.
Lastly if you have stock suspension on your 09 the suspension is not very good. To fix this you have two options. After market suspension or you can save some money by installing a new Gen III rear shock as they have a stiffer spring. Some are riding on Gen III A models (not ES) and find the rear shock is very good for their needs and these will fit your Gen II. I have a Penske rear shock and GP Suspension up front and it transformed the handling of the bike - now it responds to input much quicker with less effort.

@Fontanaman:

Also thanks for the 09 specific details on the forks . . . looks like "doom" is in the picture on this one, as I am the second owner as of a couple years ago, getting the bike about 13K . . . . I have the original "maintenance" receipts from the PO, nothing mentioned about the forks in the approx 5 years that he owned it . . . and I was on the "20K" to change the oil and onto a lifetime of fork longevity for the iron maiden of LD riding . . . idea . . . . But, sounds like they are on their way to being 2/3rds smoked as we speak . . . ???

I'm not very demanding on my machines, the local LA gendarmes and I have had enough road side chats over the last 28 or so years of riding that my riding is now very "sedated" . . . "medicated" might be another descriptive word-- there are so many cops in and around the LA area that you never know when or where one will be sitting . . . it's not "hammer time" any more, and right now the OEM suspension probably "exceeds" my demands . . . although on the two-up front things get a little over-whelmed . . . . But, it does sound like if I do the fork oil now at roughly 20K it would probably help extend the life of the forks to get closer to or reach the "30K" end of life moment . . . pushing off the decision for any fork upgrades as long as possible . . . ??

So, then that brings the next question; on my previous bike, riding 2-up I was able to get to 25K out of the OEM shock and at that time there was no way to service the shock, so I had to go aftermarket . . . seeing that you mention the GenIII shock as a possible "budget" upgrade option . . . but, similar maintenance schedule story on the shock? Stock shock also has self-consuming teflon bushings that are already 2/3rds smoked, the shock is toast by 30K as well??--and/or any way to service the shock and/or change the oil to push that upgrade decision as far down the road as possible??

 

[Joel S.]

A Battery can have voltage, but loose Cranking Amps. Keep an ear on it or get it load tested. I like to replace them when I hear or notice something different. Might be worthwhile pulling the battery and getting it load tested, better than pushing when it won't crank, heh

(25year ase master mechanic)

 

[Fontanaman]

I'd change the fork oil now - get that junk oil outta their. Then do the front fork bushings at 30K miles.

You can get a Gen III rear shock for $400 and it will help with two up riding. I don't know if these are rebuildable or not but for $400 clams who cares? You can get a between 30 and 50k on them before they are completely shot and the replace it again.

You don't have to be riding at spirited pace to enjoy high quality suspension.

A friend and I rebuild our Penske rear shocks every 20k miles or so.

To change subject DO have your valves checked at 24k miles and at that time change the engine the coolant, change the spark plugs and do a throttle body sync. A valve check is pretty easy. Changing the shims is moderately harder but once you know the tricks it is not too hard.

RE the battery. As others have noted a load test is the only way to know if the battery is good. I replace my original battery in April 2016 just because it was getting old and wanted to avoid being stranded. I keep my battery a tender at all times.

 

[blakmambo]

A Battery can have voltage, but loose Cranking Amps. Keep an ear on it or get it load tested. I like to replace them when I hear or notice something different. Might be worthwhile pulling the battery and getting it load tested, better than pushing when it won't crank, heh (25year ase master mechanic)

Simplicity is a usual sign of mastery . . . like checking things before they break . . . usually a sign of knowledge. I've generally done things the hard way in my life; so I'll take the pushing the 600 lbs until I just about pop a gusset . . . to save a couple dollars . . . . : - ) I have to check to see how old the battery is; one thing I can say about LA here on the coast is very easy on batteries . . . I recently got 8 years out of a "60 month" Interstate on my olde 84 truck, similar out of my olde Kawi. I try to have my motors worked on by professionals, haven't exactly found an enthusiastic mechanic for the FJR that is equal in skill to the demand for bucks. I don't mind pulling a battery or switching a shock . . . bolt on bolt off stuff, the rest I try to have professionally assessed and done. Batteries probably easier to just get a new one; one of the "cheapest" and best "upgrades" in motorcycling is a new battery.

I'd change the fork oil now - get that junk oil outta their. Then do the front fork bushings at 30K miles.
You can get a Gen III rear shock for $400 and it will help with two up riding. I don't know if these are rebuildable or not but for $400 clams who cares? You can get a between 30 and 50k on them before they are completely shot and the replace it again.

You don't have to be riding at spirited pace to enjoy high quality suspension.

A friend and I rebuild our Penske rear shocks every 20k miles or so.

To change subject DO have your valves checked at 24k miles and at that time change the engine the coolant, change the spark plugs and do a throttle body sync. A valve check is pretty easy. Changing the shims is moderately harder but once you know the tricks it is not too hard.

RE the battery. As others have noted a load test is the only way to know if the battery is good. I replace my original battery in April 2016 just because it was getting old and wanted to avoid being stranded. I keep my battery a tender at all times.

$400 sounds actually "reasonable" for a shock, or anything in motorcycling that might actually "make a difference" . . . but, money has been "tight" the last few years . . . it spends easier and faster than it gets made . . . so trying to go strictly by "mileage" on maintenance or upgrade decisions rather than "feeling" . . . . I did just do the Bill Mayer saddle upgrade . . . very good "decision" . . . but, blew the budget on the two-seater.

Appreciate the advice on the valves . . . I just did the "15K" schedule at 17K . . . so I did the coolant change, the final drive oil, the sparkers, and the TBS a few months ago . . . everything but the valve adjust . . . which I was looking to punt a ways as well. I'm due for an oil change/filter about now, and was thinking that I might due the fork oil . . . looks like a series of items will be coming up for "upgrading" . . . just try to kick them as far apart as I can . . . bills, bills, bills, bills . . . and more bills . . . . And, then, like yesterday, a nice ride up the coast for a hundred miler loop . . . chilly, breezy . . . didn't have to turn my electric vest on . . . seat was great . . . suspension 2/3rds smoked . . . . : - )))))

 

[Joel S.]

" Batteries probably easier to just get a new one; one of the "cheapest" and best "upgrades" in motorcycling is a new battery."

???

not sure why you think it should last XX months or years, or why a battery is considered an upgrade ??

if its in your hand ready to replace, get it load tested at batteries plus or some other place. if its good toss it back in, if not toss in a new one. they will tell you the Cranking amps of the battery, say it should be 200CA, and its 125, you will know and doesn't cost anything. , easy as that. all mine starts so all we can do is make mention of things, feel free to do what you like.

hell pull the battery cover to gain access to the terminals, and ride it somewhere to get tested. that works too

 

[blakmambo]

" Batteries probably easier to just get a new one; one of the "cheapest" and best "upgrades" in motorcycling is a new battery."???

not sure why you think it should last XX months or years, or why a battery is considered an upgrade ??

if its in your hand ready to replace, get it load tested at batteries plus or some other place. if its good toss it back in, if not toss in a new one. they will tell you the Cranking amps of the battery, say it should be 200CA, and its 125, you will know and doesn't cost anything. , easy as that. all mine starts so all we can do is make mention of things, feel free to do what you like.

hell pull the battery cover to gain access to the terminals, and ride it somewhere to get tested. that works too

That "new battery is best upgrade" was **somewhat** humor about the high cost of motorcycling in general, and the **relative** low cost of batteries--which do in fact improve engine "happiness." And, sure, there are no guarantees in life . . . or in batteries, but they do have a "projected" lifespan, and given "normal" usage they can last quite awhile. But, the caveat here is the FI system, which obviously is pulling power to run . . . hence my question about "minimum battery V to run the system" . . . which so far hasn't exactly been addressed.

Sure, the recent event was sparked by a re-start, possibly pointing to a battery or starter issue . . . might be cranking amps are down . . . but, question is is the system pulling on the battery, higher demand for the FI, and then with electric vest left on . . . and headlight . . . the generator isn't able to replenish the battery fast enough, etc.

We don't have "Batteries Plus" anywhere around me here; but as was previously pointed out I have to get some stuff done, and right, at that point we/I can flip up the battery lid and . . . listen to what it is saying . . . "to Be, or not . . . to B?" The troubled life of the FJR battery, so much expected, so little room to provide the cranking amps for a long-lived powercell . . . .

 

[mcatrophy]

... the caveat here is the FI system, which obviously is pulling power to run . . . hence my question about "minimum battery V to run the system" . . . which so far hasn't exactly been addressed...

Best I can tell you is that a Gen 2 at tick-over can easily generate sufficient power to allow for the OEM load plus a little more. At the cold idle, the battery will go up to the RR's nominal 14.2, it will go down to 13 point something at warm idle, still easily coping with the standard load (a fully charged battery with no current in or out will measure about 12.8).
However, some people have reported poor running that has been cured by changing the battery, even though it measures properly with a voltmeter. This is separate from any starting issue. As a point of reference, my fairly quickly reacting voltmeter can momentarily read 9 point something and the bike always starts fine, even if left for two or three weeks in cold weather (that's UK cold, a few degrees either side of freezing), though it's rare for me to start mine when it's below freezing.

Edited to add I have never used, nor do I own, a battery charger of any sort. Even after several weeks, my bike has always started without a problem. I've never changed a battery either. All my bikes have been used with a significant proportion of their mileage doing short trips (3 miles or so). I always seem to be lucky enough to change my bike before I get any battery issues, that's typically around four years, thirty-something thousand miles.

Mine are also probably helped by the UK's mild climate, rarely above 25C (77F), no long periods below freezing. I suspect it's the high temperatures in the USA that batteries don't like.

 

[blakmambo]

@mcatrophy:

Precerate the details . . . and the params on how low the battery can go and still start the bike, etc. Obviously a "new" bike of 4 years old or less will be closer to OEM spec, and, with "age" things will tend to drop down . . . generators kicking out less juice, etc.

But, yeah the US is a "hot" time . . . although where I live has been pretty easy on batteries . . . not too much desert running at high speeds, etc.

TY

 

[bigjohnsd]

The "Battery University" has been a good source of info in the past https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/absorbent_glass_mat_agm

Back in the day, when I made my living as a California Smog Tech, back in the early 70's, I had a standard diagnostic process.

First I measured Battery Voltage - a standard Lead Acid Battery will generate 2.2 volts per cell, 6 cells - 13.2 volts as someone pointed out 12.8 volts on an FJR is nominally acceptable. Much less than that could be a problem and warrants further investigation

The Second step was to measure Cranking Voltage - in those days one pulled and grounded the coil wire and cranked for 20 seconds, Battery voltage needed to remain above 9.8 volts, below 9.8 volts was insufficient voltage to fire the primary coil winding with sufficient secondary voltage to consistently fire the spark plugs. I recall reading in my FJR tech manual tat 9.8 volts is required for the ECU and Coils to operate properly. I don't know how I would go about cranking the FJR for 20 seconds without starting it, so a Battery Load test is probably in order.

The third step was to start the vehicle and measure Charging Voltage, looking for 13.2 - 15.0 Volts. The FJR systems seem to fall within this range.

If those three values are ok you can generally look elsewhere for driveability issues.

 

[mcatrophy]

Just looked over some of my stuff, found a video I once took showing my voltmeter during a start, on my 2010 at just under a year old. In this one the voltage goes down to 10.2V. The video stops before the voltage rises to its full charge value.



You can see stills from this video here. At 0:02.20 seconds (still #33) it's 12.2 volts, at 0:02.21 (still #34) it's 10.6V, at 0:02.30 (still #37) 10.2V, at 0:03.05 (still #40) back up to 12.2V. My voltmeter updates approximately every quarter of a second, showing the voltage average over the previous quarter.

Below is another, using a multimeter to show the battery voltage, this shows the voltage dropping to 10.62, but it's a relatively sluggish meter (this my 2014 just one day old).

 

[Fred W]

Of course measuring the voltage at the battery terminals is not an accurate means of load testing the battery since, once the engine begins turning, that voltage is the battery plus the output of the alternator, but at least it gives you a relative look at what expect.

The FJR batterycapacity is rather small for the load of the starter motor, which is required to keep the weight of the battery manageable.

 

[blakmambo]

@recent posters:

Thanks for the added comments on the battery.

@mcatrophy:

Thanks for the videos . . . I tend to be a "visual" learner . . . personally I think the first bike sounded better . . . . That sound is always fun to hear, much more fun than the sound of a car . . . or any car that I can afford . . . even to rent . . . bikes just do it better . . . personal problem I guess.

 

[bigjohnsd]

Of course measuring the voltage at the battery terminals is not an accurate means of load testing the battery since, once the engine begins turning, that voltage is the battery plus the output of the alternator, but at least it gives you a relative look at what expect.
The FJR batterycapacity is rather small for the load of the starter motor, which is required to keep the weight of the battery manageable.

Technically you are probably correct, though I have my doubts as to the efficacy of the alternator at cranking rpm. But, what we are really seeking to know is if there is adequate voltage to fire the coils, make the ECU run and for the injectors to operate. As the voltage across the top of the battery is the available potential it remains an accurate determination of the health of the battery while cranking.

 

[mcatrophy]

... personally I think the first bike sounded better ....

More to do with the position of the camera and its internal microphone than any difference between the bikes. They've always sounded very similar to me.

 

[FJR1300Mark]

Just really saying hi.

2007 FJR 41,000 miles

Still on the original battery.

When not riding its on a battery minder 3 to 7 days a month.

I ride in the winter with heated gloves and a vest. The FJR does not have enough to keep the battery up at idle when I have all the heat turned up. Fine at speed. With two up and heated gear I think you'd need to turn them off with extended stop and go traffic.

I have a leaking left fork. Going to get them both rebuilt with new seals and bushings. About $85 per side plus parts est total $280.

 

[Niehart]

This is pretty handy.

https://www.fjr-tips.org/maint/fjr-maintenance.xls

Thanks to Mark Johnson.