Fork Seal Leak at 21k Miles?

[K_Flyer]

With just over 21k miles on my 2015 FJR1300ES, the right fork has developed a small leak. It is enough to form dust rings but there are no puddles under the bike; yet. The dealer said it's not a problem unless half the oil leaks out of the fork. Translation -- "will not be covered under warranty." We keep our bikes very clean, paying particular attention to the forks as we are more used to the BMW suspension where the ball joints are all covered by boots. No, we do not use a pressure washer or even the full blast from a garden hose. The last bike I had with forks was a 1983 Yamaha Midnight Maxim. It did not have a fork leak in over 50k miles and, as I recall, the forks were pressurized.

Is this a problem with the new inverted forks, or did I just get a dud? Another thread on the ES suspension has not mentioned a problem with leaks so I suspect the latter. The bike is still under extended warranty so I'd like to get it fixed ASAP. I do like like the idea of a catastrophic failure that dumps fork oil on the front tire!

About this same time, the bike has developed a small front-end wobble, just a bit more than a vibration, at low speeds. It's not the tire as I had about 1000 miles on the new tire before this occurred. Tire pressure is checked almost every day before we ride with the front at 36 psi. I don't think the wobble is related to the fork leak, but I'm not an authority on forks.

Comments?

 

[Ignacio]

Comments?

Forks, seals, and warranty coverage has been discussed a significant number of times (not NEPRT-ly though) over the years with mixed results on various dealers willingness to try and cover or not. Seems like lots of opinions and little consensus whether it's a wear item or not. I'd encourage you to search and read through them.

Speculation of an ES-specific issue is premature IMO...or not any more significance than conventional fork design that I've seen or heard. Seals leak sometimes..often because of a piece of grit in them.

Wobble has been covered many, Many, MANY times on the forum before and. I strongly suggest you search and comb through NEPRT on that particular one.

 

[RossKean]

Very unusual to have a fork seal leak at 21 K miles!

I don't think I have heard of any leak problems with the ES forks and some are out there with quite a few miles on them.

Most likely a piece of "dirt" or bug fragment between the seal "lip" and the fork tube.

Most likely can be fixed using a Seal Mate.

Your dealer is full of ****!! - it should be fixed if it is leaking. With that mileage, I don't think they can realistically claim that the fork seal is a wear item. Would be different if you had 60,000 miles on it.

Most unlikely to have a catastrophic failure of the seal. Usually a leak will just slowly get worse. Or sometimes go away as the dirt gets worked out.

Your wobble has NOTHING to do with the loss of 5 drops of oil from a front shock!

Don't assume its not the tire - culprit in 90% of cases (new or not). What brand of tire?

Check that the steering head is correctly torqued and verify that the wheel hasn't thrown balancing weights.

K_Flyer, you have had more problems with your FJR than anyone I have heard of; especially with the Gen III. Nothing really major (unless I missed something) but still very real and, no doubt, very annoying. Hope you get it all worked out! My FJR has been the most reliable piece of machinery I have ever owned - 182,000 miles and still going.

 

[Mr_Canoehead]

+1 on trying a seal mate (or the like). It may just be some crud is under the seal causing a minor seep. If that fixes it, consider some kind of seal sock to keep the seals clean going forward.

I doubt the wobble is related.

 

[art miller]

RossKean has well covered the likely causes and remedies. My 2014ES has 28k miles and no issues with forks seals. I clean the fork tubes after every ride. After a trip I wax the tubes. Suggest 36psi in front tire is too low. Most of us do 39psi in front tires.

 

[RossKean]

I missed the 36 psi when I first read the original post. I think you would find an improvement with respect to tire-induced wobble/vibration as well as improved tire life at 40 psi.

For some tires and conditions, I will even run 42 psi in the front and 44 psi in the rear.

(I don't use a "cold" tire pressure of 42 PSI if I am going to be riding on a hot day. Pressure increase with temperature can bring it up quite a long way.)

 

[lnewlf]

here in the big bro state..[NY] she won't pass inspection with a fork leak... [altho most don't check for that]

 

[Constant Mesh]

I replaced a leaking seal on my '04 recently. When I inspected the fork tube up close I discovered a tiny rough spot on the shiny tube. When I slid my fingertip across the spot I could feel it quite easily. The seal passed over the spot as the fork moved.

I smoothed the roughness with some abrasive material so that it was smooth to the touch again.

New seal has not leaked so far.

I don't know what dinged the tube. It didn't bend it but it did leave a small imperfection which was rough to the touch. Almost appeared like it had been lightly punched with an awl or other sharp pointed object.

The leak may have been totally unrelated. Don't know.

 

[12tinker]

I would take care of this yourself right NOW and forget that dealer! As FJR Pilot states, use Sealmate or just some 35 mm negative. You must knock or simply twist up/down the tube guard and/or dust seal to get to the primary seal that will almost certainly have some debris causing the lip not to seat on the tube. I wonder how many fork seals have been replaced unnecessarily because of a little dirt lifting the seal.

At least wrap an old sock around it for now, HA! Caliper seals hate fork oil (non-inverted forks). 10 minute job.

Forget that dealer. Oldest trick in the book. "Ya, you need to replace the seals" Well maybe if you ride in the desert, or the bike has 50K on the clock.

My opinion, for what it's worth. Good luck!

 

[Uncle Hud]

K_Flyer posted: <snip, snip, snip>
Is this a problem with the new inverted forks, or did I just get a dud? Another thread on the ES suspension has not mentioned a problem with leaks so I suspect the latter.

My 2015 ES has over 55,000 miles as of this morning, and has never had a fork leak. Never. Despite the scrapes and gouges on my bike, she's mechanically sound and I am sensitive to the difference between cosmetic issues and substantive issues.

That makes me believe is not an inherent characteristic of inverted forks, Yamaha's design, or something unique to the 2015 models.

A local dealer takes care of all my periodic maintenance (heavily discounted pre-paid plan, AND I TRUST THEM WITH MY LIFE) so I have no idea if the forks have been serviced.

(All you dealer haters need psychotherapy.)

 

[jammess]

Hey K_Flyer, is BMW starting to look better? Just asking.

 

[K_Flyer]

Thanks for the responses. First off, I'd need a lot more problems before I would even consider another BMW!

Let me address the wobble and the tires, especially related to pressure. This is now the third Z8 on the front. I'd never seen this wobble with the previous tires, even when they were badly worn and feathered (scalloped?) This tire had about 600 miles on it when the wobble appeared. It was definitely not there for the first 600 miles. I'd not hit any potholes and the riding up to then was less spirited than usual. I'd checked the pressure that morning, and the next morning thinking there had been a leak. It was 36 psi both times. I and a couple of others looked at the tire and could see nothing wrong with it. When I got back from that trip, and after it had been to the dealer for service, I went to the tire shop to have the balance rechecked and the tire/rim inspected. No problem seen. As with the rest of you, the tire was the first thing I suspected.

As for pressure, on the previous set of tires on both bikes, we decided to try a higher pressure, based on comments in other threads. We set the fronts at 39 psi, the rears at 42. On the way home from the shop, Theresa complained that the bike felt "bouncy." After a couple hundred miles on some local twisties, she went back to 36 psi. Her point was that she would rather replace the tire more often than ride something that didn't feel right. I also did not like the handling but, to prove a point on better wear, I stayed at 39. At 7850 +- 2 miles, my tire had 1.59 mm tread left, hers had 1.63. With the new tires, we are both back to 36 psi and loving it. Another interesting data point was that after a service, she complained the bike wasn't handling right. We checked and they had set her tire to 39, the same as mine. (We usually take our bikes in for service together.) At the recent Reuben Run, we talked to one of the guys about his PR4's. He was getting about the same mileage as we were, and his wear patterns were similar.

Have to get back to work. Too much time on this.

 

[Bill Lumberg]

I run 40 psi cold. Year round. I have almost 60K on my 2014. No leaks. If it leaked, I'd have them fix it under warranty. Having had a major (to them) warranty repair from yamaha, they're not too much in a hurry to fix anything even when the bike is unrideable. They'd definitely not fall over themselves addressing a fork leak.

My BMW had a breakdown every year I owned it. Most were expensive. So one in almost 60k, combined with plentiful shops, makes me still glad I switched from kraut to rice.