Full Face helmets may contribute to fatalities?

[Silent]

And here I thought I made a good model :dribble:

 

[Bigtime]

Come on folks, after decades of searching ABATE finally found an obscure study that they can point to and say that helmets kill. Millions of dollars in contributions by HD *** clowns well spent! ******* ABATE...

 

[wfooshee]

We need to separate ABATE from the study. This isn't an ABATE study, it's not even an American study. The study doesn't actually say that helmets kill, per se. ABATE wants you to think so, though. The study says that there is a singular type of injury to the base of the skull, caused by the helmet design. There's hopefully an intent to go towards, "maybe we can make a better helmet," but the study makes no comparison to what injuries would have happened without the helmet and what those would have resulted in for the rider.

ABATE just says "these fatal injuries are cause by helmets," and hopes you don't think about what would happen to you anyway if you hit your head on something hard enough for your chin strap to go into the bottom of your brain.

 

[Pjturbo]

I remember an article from England a few years ago about an MD that invented a helmet with an inflatable neck brace, aka. air bag. On impact it inflated. He was studing exactly this type of injury. He tried to get the manufactures in Europe interested but no one was. I don't remember his name.

Phil

 

[wfooshee]

I remember seeing stuff like that, including inflatable jackets. The inflatable collar is simply to restrict head motion to protect from neck injury, similar to the HANS worn by race drivers. The kind of stuff these studies are talking about wouldn't be changed by that. You have to have some way of keeping the helmet from trying to move away from the body, either upwsrds or straight back, and pulling the bottom of the skull with it. Similar to a HANS, but anchored differently, yet still leaving enough free head motion to be able to ride safely.

Fairly complicated.

 

[daveski]

Heard of the inflatable jackets that would inflate on impact or if thrown from the bike. Also told it is expensive everytime used and can be set off by mistake.

 

[SacramentoMike]

sorry, doubled up.

 

[SacramentoMike]

Here's what you're looking for:

The full face may break my neck and kill me but I'll be one good lookin' corpse!

Don, you think that helmet will make you look better?

 

[painman]

Interesting report. Always many sides to a story. So I'll just throw in my $.02 with no proof what-so-ever and is all just hear-say. :dntknw:

I use to ride with "no" helmet and tee shirt like many of the dweebs I see riding around our parts. And after witnessing several get-offs, and injured riders, none myself knock on wood, and having 4 nurses in my family one being my brother who has many years of experience under his belt and is now a supervising nurse in our local truma unit. They all say most bike riders worst cause of injury and or death are from "internal injury" and not related to "head injury". :fool:

Except, those who were wearing the beanie style helmet which in an accident comes off the head usually over the riders face and was really like not wearing a helmet at all obviously suffered greater head injuries. :wacko:

Common sense says an open face helmet will expose your "face" to truma where as a full-face helmet would provide way more protection to your "face". And if memory serves me correct from my Tai-Kwon-Do days, there are over 60 points on your face that if hit just right can kill you. :black eye: :aikido:

Personally, I now not only wear a "full-face" helmet but complete protective clothing with armor even if I just ride down to the store. Long live ATGATT. PM. <>< :good:

 

[Rob]

I have this unexplainable fear of having a face injury. If I could not wear a full face helmet I would not ride. I would be so pre occupied with the worry that may happen that it would be distracting for me.

 

[jekirby]

One off topic observation I would throw in: Most of the folks I ride with ride harleys and wear half or beanie style helmets. Quite a few of them will switch to a full face when traveling longer distances because of wind burn and noise. They still complain of being suffocated and not enjoying the ride as much.

Carry on....

 

[Fencer]

So answer me this.

A while back, I asked why do MX helmets have the protruding area in the front while street helmets do not.

Answer was: to allow a greater area for face plants while not impacting the helmet.

So you save your teeth, but with this design, do you not provide greater leverage to break your neck?

Do you get more broken necks in an MX helmet vs street design.

That IMO, would make or break the study.

 

[madmike2]

Do you get more broken necks in an MX helmet vs street design.
That IMO, would make or break the study.

Again, too many variables for a comparison:

1.) Speed

2.) Roadway/surface type

3.) Obstructions impacted

For instance, though MW racers and riders will ride their bikes at speed, they're not likely to be riding them at the average speed a street rider will. Also, a crash on an MX bike is not as likely to happen at nominal speed as it is by glancing off an obstruction (tree, boulder, rock in the trail, etc.) and I'd guess (and it's merely a guess since my crash was @ 34-45 mph on pavement) that is usually at less than 35 mph and more likely to be on dirt.

Sure, there are those who crash in boulder fields as well as those who go down while riding at speed across the "flats". A 20 mph crash in sand is not the same as a 60 mph crash, with the attendant slide or abrupt stop into the side of an automobile, on the street.

That being said, I've seen a number of riders who use an MX helmet on the street.

 

[evil_henchman]

So answer me this.
A while back, I asked why do MX helmets have the protruding area in the front while street helmets do not.

Answer was: to allow a greater area for face plants while not impacting the helmet.

So you save your teeth, but with this design, do you not provide greater leverage to break your neck?

Do you get more broken necks in an MX helmet vs street design.

That IMO, would make or break the study.

See post #13.

Dirt helmets are designed to allow for better ventilation (MX is hard work) and to a lesser degree, help hold your goggles in place.

 

[Mooseonagoose]

What I find amusing is that one the one hand ABATE espouses the theory about the cranio-facial bones ability to act as an energy absorption system [they do of course to some degree, but still doesn't negate the advisability of a good helmet]. Yet on the other hand the one hat the anti-helmet folk will almost universally condescend to wear is the virtually un-padded beanie-style bucket, which is very likely to keep the skull from fracturing [absorbing energy] whilst being devoid of any real energy absorption ability itself, therfore allowing the brain to do just what you don't want it to do, [ie; slap the inside of the skull really hard],...thus causing seroius & often irreperable brain damage!

 

[oldryder]

Perhaps the chin bar on a full face should have some energy asorbing property like a crush zone that would dissipate some energy that might otherwise be transmitted to the skull/brain. not much room there for deformation of a crush zone but I'd rather have a broken jaw than be dead.