Full system exhaust

[FJR919]

If I recall correctly, each core weighed a pound each. So by the time you're done with all the rewelding, you're probably lighter by just shy of two pounds.

For those of us not capable of de-catting the stock header, is there anyone on the Forum or elsewhere who's interested in doing the 'cat-ectomy', and if yes, what kind of $$$ would you think that would run - thanks. I personally would prefer to stick with the de-catted stock header.

There is a supporting vendor on the other (new) FJR forum (FJR Riders Forum) called No One out of Texas that does a nice decatting job, at least from the pictures he's posted.

 

[FJR919]

Looks like my theory about the Holeshot headers may be correct. I got some info directly from Dale Walker:

I tried a cross over and it did not help one bit............ zippo

Its so close to stock in the very low, but may be down every so slightly.................. not much though

Looks like the Holeshot header will not cause you to lose low/mid-range torque, but only give gains in the higher RPMs. Keep in mind that slip-ons also usually improve torque across the entire RPM range. Dale did qualify his statements with the need for proper tuning (with a PCIII or similar).

He also did spend lots of time adjusting and testing the design on a Dyno, so it's not a haphazard design just to get rid of catalytic converters that some people imply when criticizing the design.

I didn't imply it was a haphazard design at all. Do you know what types of crossovers he experimented with and their location? There are a lot of variables. I have no doubt that Dale did dyno work in developing it, but I spoke to him when he was developing it and he didn't say anything to me about a crossover not helping. I'm not going to quote Dale because I had the conversation with him years ago. My impression, as someone who has some understanding how performance exhausts work, is that compromises were made for ease of manufacturing and price. Look, I realize you bought one so you don't want to hear it isn't the cats *** of exhaust systems. It's a nice alternative to a stock header and from what I know of Dale's work, it's well made. It's just not the performance system that I was looking for, but I certainly wouldn't tell someone not to buy one.

 

[UselessPickles]

Looks like my theory about the Holeshot headers may be correct. I got some info directly from Dale Walker:

I tried a cross over and it did not help one bit............ zippo

Its so close to stock in the very low, but may be down every so slightly.................. not much though

Looks like the Holeshot header will not cause you to lose low/mid-range torque, but only give gains in the higher RPMs. Keep in mind that slip-ons also usually improve torque across the entire RPM range. Dale did qualify his statements with the need for proper tuning (with a PCIII or similar).

He also did spend lots of time adjusting and testing the design on a Dyno, so it's not a haphazard design just to get rid of catalytic converters that some people imply when criticizing the design.

I didn't imply it was a haphazard design at all.

I'm sure you didn't mean to imply that, but the words that showed up in the forum give that impression. Being that you have an understanding of performance exhaust design, it's probably easy for you to forget that other people do not have the same knowledge to fill in-between the lines with the correct assumptions and "common knowledge" of the performance exhaust field. That happens whenever you specialize in anything - things become "common sense" and it doesn't even seem worth mentioning it because you forget that it's not really common sense.

Do you know what types of crossovers he experimented with and their location? There are a lot of variables. I have no doubt that Dale did dyno work in developing it, but I spoke to him when he was developing it and he didn't say anything to me about a crossover not helping.

No, I didn't ask about those details. I'm pretty sure that someone with his level of experience understands that there are lots of variables involved and would've tested several reasonable alternatives.

My impression, as someone who has some understanding how performance exhausts work, is that compromises were made for ease of manufacturing and price.

That will always be true for any consumer product. Only in racing will anything ever be designed for 100% maximum performance without manufacturing complexity and cost playing a major role. The main point that I'm trying to make is that the amount of compromise to performance is probably not very significant, especially compared to the amount of money it would take to avoid the compromise. Most importantly, there will not be a net loss of mid-range torque, as it is easy to misinterpret from the discussions about the design having less mid-range torque than it could.

Look, I realize you bought one so you don't want to hear it isn't the cats *** of exhaust systems.

That was uncalled for. If you must know, I knew about these compromises before I purchased the header. I had found some old threads somewhere that included people criticizing the design when it first became available and Dale addressing the concerns with very good reasons about miniscule performance gains at a large cost (can't find it again; that's why I emailed Dale to get the quotes that I posted). I had even talked to Dale on the phone before making the decision to purchase. I'm only trying to relay that information so that people are not wrongly under the impression that they will actually lose performance in some areas with this header, or that the header was not tuned for performance at all. Both sides of the issue are necessary to make an informed decision.

 

[FJR919]

Pickles, you're right. The cats *** sentence looks worse in print, and it wasn't my intent to come off that way. It's true so many of the details get lost in a discussion in print versus a verbal discussion, and the pros and cons of various issues in an exhaust topic would fill many pages. It was a good lively discussion, and I've enjoyed reading the airbox mods you and Webby have engaged in. So I'll leave it by wishing you the best with your ongoing mods. Chris.

 

[v65]

I just did some weighing the other day, but don't have the holeshot headers on hand to weigh (getting ceramic coated). I weighed with a basic bathroom scale by weighing myself with and without holding various items and subtracting my weight:
Stock header: 11 lbs.

Stock muffler: 10 lbs. (x2 -> 20 lbs. for both)

Titanium Hexacone: 6.5 lbs. (x2 -> 13 lbs. for both)

Maybe someone else can use the same method to weigh their holeshots. If not, I'll weigh them when I get them back (hopefully this week).

I weighed the Holeshot header at 11lbs using the same method.

 

[UselessPickles]

I just did some weighing the other day, but don't have the holeshot headers on hand to weigh (getting ceramic coated). I weighed with a basic bathroom scale by weighing myself with and without holding various items and subtracting my weight:
Stock header: 11 lbs.

Stock muffler: 10 lbs. (x2 -> 20 lbs. for both)

Titanium Hexacone: 6.5 lbs. (x2 -> 13 lbs. for both)

Maybe someone else can use the same method to weigh their holeshots. If not, I'll weigh them when I get them back (hopefully this week).

I weighed the Holeshot header at 11lbs using the same method.

Interesting. Is yours the older ceramic-coated mild steel, or the newer stainless steel? I wonder if that would even make a difference.

 

[v65]

Interesting. Is yours the older ceramic-coated mild steel, or the newer stainless steel? I wonder if that would even make a difference.

Stainless, but there is a lot of room for error there. I'm waiting to see what yours weigh.

 

[UselessPickles]

Interesting. Is yours the older ceramic-coated mild steel, or the newer stainless steel? I wonder if that would even make a difference.

Stainless, but there is a lot of room for food there. I'm waiting to see what yours weigh.

Fixed it for you. You must have eaten dinner between weighings. Unless you weighed with the pipes first... then you must've dropped a giant deuce before the second weighing.

 

[v65]

Fixed it for you. You must have eaten dinner between weighings. Unless you weighed with the pipes first... then you must've dropped a giant deuce before the second weighing.

Have we met? :lol:

 

[UselessPickles]

I just did some weighing the other day, but don't have the holeshot headers on hand to weigh (getting ceramic coated). I weighed with a basic bathroom scale by weighing myself with and without holding various items and subtracting my weight:
Stock header: 11 lbs.

Stock muffler: 10 lbs. (x2 -> 20 lbs. for both)

Titanium Hexacone: 6.5 lbs. (x2 -> 13 lbs. for both)

Maybe someone else can use the same method to weigh their holeshots. If not, I'll weigh them when I get them back (hopefully this week).

I weighed the Holeshot header at 11lbs using the same method.

I got my ceramic coated stainless steel Holeshot headers back today and weighed them at 10 lbs.

 

[fjrExtreme]

This post is a great read. Thanks to everyone for the info.

Here's another bit of info. I found while surfing. I don't really know anything about the site, but it showed up on a google search

https://www.2wf.com/content/view/2254/45/

 

[Wicked Webby]

A cat-less stock header is only 9lbs!

Check in out:

https://www.fjrforum.com/forum//index.php?s...=115873&hl=

 

[Tre]

I'm looking at getting one of these two. Figured this might be an easy way of getting pro and cons of each.
edit: i tried setting this up as a poll, but it looks like it didn't work. sorry

Before getting that . I purchased a set of slip ons from a company called Beowulf and put them on. Here is the link where you can hear them. They come with a lifetime warranty and they have removable baffles. I own an 05 fjr

 

[Tre]

Before getting that . I purchased a set of slip ons from a company called Beowulf and put them on. Here is the link where you can hear them. They come with a lifetime warranty and they have removable baffles. I own an 05 fjr

 

[Krell]

Well I installed a Muzzys full stainless system today on my 08 FJR. I love the way it looks and yes it is loud! That said I can't even tell my bike is running when next to my neighbor's idling Fat Boy, so the sound does n't bother me none! It actually quieted down a bit after the bike warmed up and things got good and hot. Muzzy's mentioned that the muffler packing was in some sort of poly bag which would melt away when first fired up. Maybe that process is why it quieted down after about 10 minutes riding.

All that is well and good but I must say I am sorely disappointed that the ground clearance issue still exists.

With all the stuff I read about the pipe scrape issue I decided the first thing I would do after installing the pipe is go find a parking lot and and make a few right hand circles to be sure the pipe doesn't scrape. Guess what? It scrapes!!! :angry2: .

I thought surely by now this issue had been fixed, but if it has, then there are Muzzy's resellers floating around with the old design systems. I bought this one from 58cycle.com I will of course be on the phone monday with them and Muzzy's to see if the system I received was the old or the new style.

The part number was 1016-00085. When I installed it I knew something was not right as the last two welded sections of the collector seemed to just be angled wrong, preventing it from hugging tight to the same area that the stock pipe fits. Its out by about 1 1/2 to 2 " from the stock location. The instructions say to leave all the fasteners loose until you have everything positioned just right and then to tighten things down, starting from the header to the can. I even tightly zip tied the collector/mid-pipe area to hold it as close as possible while tightening it all up. No amount of bending the mid-pipe will fix this. It needs to be cut off and re-welded to address the issue and probably a different set of bends need to be made to the mid pipe.

Anyway just wanted y'all to know that as of July 6th 2009 it is entirely possible to still end up with a Muzzy's 4 into 1 system that will scrap before the peg feelers do.

 

[Krell]

I Spoke with Muzzys over the phone on Monday. When I asked if I could have possibly been drop shipped one of the older systems and they did not rule it out but said they would work with me to figure out what is wrong. I took some pictures so that they could see if it was the revised system or not.

Today I got the response that I did in fact have the revised system yet for me it still scrapes. I'm going to go loosen everything up again and try to position it a little better then tighten it up but that is what I did when I installed it the first time. Does this mean I need to use another set of new header gaskets? probably.

Anyway Muzzys has a proposition for us. They said if there is anyone local to Bend, OR that would be willing to loan Muzzys an 06-09 FJR for a week, Muzzys would see if they can further develop the system to gain more ground clearance. The owner of the bike would be entitled to a free version 3 redesigned system for their trouble.

I would be glad to loan them mine to fix this problem but I live in VA. If you do want to take them up on the offer PM me. You can get a full system for free and I can exchange mine for one that does not scrape the ground.

Any takers? :clapping: